So you want to be the HC at UNT

TheColonyEagle · October 13, 2020

This is where I am now in talking to our next potential head coach. I think Wren Baker should have this mindset...

These are minimums. Bare minimum expectations that come with your salary, your facilities, the support from this administration:

Bowl game every year

Win more bowls than you lose.

Win CUSA West EVERY YEAR....do not ever finish less than 2nd place.

Win CUSA every 2 years

Players graduate

Top 10 G5 program

That's what you will need to do to earn your $1.5 million to $2 million per year. If you don't, you'll get replaced. How many good coaches out there would take that deal in a heartbeat?

If you want raises/extensions:

Top 25

Multiple Conference championships

NY6 Bowl

Top 3 G5 program

Apogee sell outs

Players Graduate

If you don't do that and you get another job offer....good luck, the line forms to the left for coaches that want what you have. Don't even come to me with another offer if you haven't done the above.

The window on our opportunity to be relevant in the new college football world is rapidly closing (I happened to think it's already closed...but if the administration doesn't, they're going to have to raise expectations in a hurry) Covid completely changed the future outlook for programs like ours.

I don't see Seth Littrell turning it around anytime soon. How would he? His new assistants aren't going to all the sudden figure out how to coach...so we're going to fire them all again and start over next year again? Eventually you have to put the blame at the one that's been here and is hiring all these assistants. If he has to start over again next year, then UNT should completely start over with an entire new staff including HC

Cr1028 · October 13, 2020

4 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

This is where I am now in talking to our next potential head coach. I think Wren Baker should have this mindset...

These are minimums. Bare minimum expectations that come with your salary, your facilities, the support from this administration:

Bowl game every year

Win more bowls than you lose.

Win CUSA West EVERY YEAR....do not ever finish less than 2nd place.

Win CUSA every 2 years

Players graduate

Top 10 G5 program

That's what you will need to do to earn your $1.5 million to $2 million per year. If you don't, you'll get replaced. How many good coaches out there would take that deal in a heartbeat?

If you want raises/extensions:

Top 25

Multiple Conference championships

NY6 Bowl

Top 3 G5 program

Apogee sell outs

Players Graduate

If you don't do that and you get another job offer....good luck, the line forms to the left for coaches that want what you have. Don't even come to me with another offer if you haven't done the above.

The window on our opportunity to be relevant in the new college football world is rapidly closing (I happened to think it's already closed...but if the administration doesn't, they're going to have to raise expectations in a hurry) Covid completely changed the future outlook for programs like ours.

I don't see Seth Littrell turning it around anytime soon. How would he? His new assistants aren't going to all the sudden figure out how to coach...so we're going to fire them all again and start over next year again? Eventually you have to put the blame at the one that's been here and is hiring all these assistants. If he has to start over again next year, then UNT should completely start over with an entire new staff including HC

If we were the hottest girl in the room that may just work but unfortunately we are not and have to take on some risky hires like we did with Dodge from time to time. Whether we like it or not, we are looked upon in the coaching community as a career killer program. Seth’s failures after all the hype will only exacerbate this perception. We should’ve let him go to another school so we could turn more toward the appearance of a career-builder program.

TheColonyEagle · October 13, 2020

Just now, Cr1028 said:

If we were the hottest girl in the room that may just work but unfortunately we are not and have to take on some risky hires like we did with Dodge from time to time. Whether we like it or not, we are looked upon in the coaching community as a career killer program. Seth’s failures after all the hype will only exacerbate this perception. We should’ve let him go to another school so we could turn more toward the appearance of a career-builder program.

I don't know....I see our program as a heck of an opportunity. We should be cycling through stud G5 coaches every few years as they move up to big jobs. There's only one Gary Patterson. We seem to be scared of the former holding out for the latter.

As for a hottest girl analogy, we get one we think is hot...and we beg her not to leave because we think we'll never get another one. Then she turns out to not be so hot...but we're still buying her shit because we think she's the best we'll ever get.

TheColonyEagle · October 13, 2020

Wren Baker actually needs to get a little more cocky and see NO coach as bigger than him and the program. That might change some things around here...

Cr1028 · October 13, 2020

10 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I don't know....I see our program as a heck of an opportunity. We should be cycling through stud G5 coaches every few years as they move up to big jobs. There's only one Gary Patterson. We seem to be scared of the former holding out for the latter.

As for a hottest girl analogy, we get one we think is hot...and we beg her not to leave because we think we'll never get another one. Then she turns out to not be so hot...but we're still buying her shit because we think she's the best we'll ever get.

On the first point, yes there is tons of opportunity and you and I see it because we are close to this program. Coaching candidates see Dickey- fired back to coordinating at G5 schools for a decade, Dodge-fired back to high school, McCarney-fired into retirement, Littrell if fired would likely end up as a P5 position coach or G5 coordinator for a few years.

On the second point I agree with you. We are very quick to get clingy.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Cr1028

SilverEagle · October 13, 2020

5 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

If we were the hottest girl in the room that may just work but unfortunately we are not and have to take on some risky hires like we did with Dodge from time to time. Whether we like it or not, we are looked upon in the coaching community as a career killer program. Seth’s failures after all the hype will only exacerbate this perception. We should’ve let him go to another school so we could turn more toward the appearance of a career-builder program.

....and yet they keep lining up to apply for the job.

At what point did we become a career-ender for coaches?

Hayden Fry was hired away from us by Iowa

His replacement, Jerry Moore, was hired away after an unimpressive 11-11 record.

So when did we go from being a "stepping-stone-to-a-better-job" to walking/wandering off the pier with concrete shoes on?

wardly · October 13, 2020

10 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

....and yet they keep lining up to apply for the job.

At what point did we become a career-ender for coaches?

Hayden Fry was hired away from us by Iowa

His replacement, Jerry Moore, was hired away after an unimpressive 11-11 record.

So when did we go from being a "stepping-stone-to-a-better-job" to walking/wandering off the pier with concrete shoes on?

We are not a stepping stone to a better job. We are an albatross with a millstone around our neck. Since my freshman year of 1961 only Fry and Moore moved on to better jobs, and that was 40 years ago. Everyone else got fired. UNT is a career killer, not a builder.

TheColonyEagle · October 13, 2020

1 minute ago, wardly said:

We are not a stepping stone to a better job. We are an albatross with a millstone around our neck. Since my freshman year of 1961 only Fry and Moore moved on to better jobs, and that was 40 years ago. Everyone else got fired. UNT is a career killer, not a builder.

We SHOULD be a stepping stone. We LOOK LIKE a stepping stone. We spend money like we're a stepping stone. But the expectations say other wise. If we're not going to align expectations with our investment...then what are we doing here?

Quit flushing money down the toilet. Might as well get rid of football, turn Apogee into a baseball stadium and put the money toward baseball and basketball and compete for national championships. I think 100 years is long enough to decide if football is going to work here or not.

Cr1028 · October 13, 2020

32 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

....and yet they keep lining up to apply for the job.

At what point did we become a career-ender for coaches?

Hayden Fry was hired away from us by Iowa

His replacement, Jerry Moore, was hired away after an unimpressive 11-11 record.

So when did we go from being a "stepping-stone-to-a-better-job" to walking/wandering off the pier with concrete shoes on?

In or before 1994

Cr1028 · October 13, 2020

5 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Quit flushing money down the toilet.

I agree with this.

wardly · October 13, 2020

Just now, Cr1028 said:

I agree with this.

Too late. We have millions tied up in bricks and sticks.

BillySee58 · October 13, 2020

I think Littrell will be fine. He has a lot he needs to look in the mirror and fix, but I think he will win with this group of underclassmen. But still, allowing RV to stay as long as he did is what got us in this mess. Wren seems to like Littrell, but it sure would have been nice to have allowed him the opportunity to make that hire. Especially with how well his MBB hire has worked.

TheColonyEagle · October 13, 2020

20 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

...allowing RV to stay as long as he did is what got us in this mess.

There are so many issues with our program that came right out of this

Edited October 14, 2020 by TheColonyEagle

GrayEagle · October 13, 2020

16 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I think Littrell will be fine. He has a lot he needs to look in the mirror and fix, but I think he will win with this group of underclassmen. But still, allowing RV to stay as long as he did is what got us in this mess. Wren seems to like Littrell, but it sure would have been nice to have allowed him the opportunity to make that hire. Especially with how well his MBB hire has worked.

It's looking like we can add women's softball to the good hires as well. Aren't those the only hires that he's made here?

untjim1995 · October 13, 2020

If you are gonna pay to play the game, which we have decided we will do, then you also have to pay to win. SL makes a huge G5 salary, no doubt about it. But that salary should never be so much that you have to wait until there are two or less years left to pay out that coach.

That said, covid has changed everything for everyone on this--I doubt you will see many coaches being fired at the end of the season. Guys like Tom Herman will get an extra year that they wouldn't normally get. That's why 2021 is the year that most of these coaches will feel a very hot seat, SL included. I can see SL getting fired if 2021 is a losing season, as in he gets canned as soon as we lose our 7th game in the regular season.

dml7007 · October 13, 2020

I hope that Seth turns it around and gets us back on track. But funny thing if not I know people will blast it here, but why not Darrel Dickey. His problem back in his days he had to play tough schedules. He won conference and competed at the highest level until his last year. I think he learned lots since he left. Bring him back if we have too, as I said I hope Seth turns it around and stays here for a long time.

TheColonyEagle · October 13, 2020

1 hour ago, dml7007 said:

I hope that Seth turns it around and gets us back on track. But funny thing if not I know people will blast it here, but why not Darrel Dickey. His problem back in his days he had to play tough schedules. He won conference and competed at the highest level until his last year. I think he learned lots since he left. Bring him back if we have too, as I said I hope Seth turns it around and stays here for a long time.

I wouldn't blast it....

Rudy · October 13, 2020

I'm not sure DD would want to come back here.

Monkeypox · October 13, 2020

While I was not a big fan of DD's time or record here at UNT, I would hire him back in a second if the timing were right. A lot of that, though, is based on his career SINCE he was our head coach. He's earned his way into his position now and is well-respected in the college ranks.

As others have said, though... I doubt he would come back here.

Cr1028 · October 13, 2020

3 hours ago, dml7007 said:

I hope that Seth turns it around and gets us back on track. But funny thing if not I know people will blast it here, but why not Darrel Dickey. His problem back in his days he had to play tough schedules. He won conference and competed at the highest level until his last year. I think he learned lots since he left. Bring him back if we have too, as I said I hope Seth turns it around and stays here for a long time.

southsideguy · October 14, 2020

I take LATECH's coach in a second. His team are always near the top or the top each season. They don't seem to have rebuilding years. They must be doing something right there.

RBP79 · October 14, 2020

I'm thinking 1.5 million might draw some interest from alot of up and coming G5 HC's....

cogido · October 14, 2020

Damn it Nancy we’re sounding P A T H E T I C !! Let’s bring back Dickey ? How about my first wife, when she put her teeth in she didn’t look half bad either ! It’s a proven fact - this University can win and has done it before with pride. HANG TOUGH. GMG

MeanGreenZen · October 14, 2020

UNT is a damn good job now. It was not a good job when Darrell Dickey or Todd Dodge were here.

I’m disappointed that Seth is struggling right now, but he is still .500 at UNT.

How he finishes this year and next season will seal his fate. I will allow myself to be entertained by that ride.

wardly · October 14, 2020

45 minutes ago, MeanGreenZen said:

UNT is a damn good job now. It was not a good job when Darrell Dickey or Todd Dodge were here.

I’m disappointed that Seth is struggling right now, but he is still .500 at UNT.

How he finishes this year and next season will seal his fate. I will allow myself to be entertained by that ride.

The sad thing is that " still .500 at UNT" is considered acceptable by many.