Reluctance To Play Redshirt Freshmen

BillySee58 · October 12, 2020

I made a comment that it has been frustrating seeing us play so poorly knowing we have recruited so well recently. More frustrating is the fact that these recruits are being relegated to the bench by guys who aren’t performing. I looked at our roster and noticed this really does seem to be true. Our redshirt freshmen aren’t playing, and it really seems like Littrell and his staff favor the older players. Here are our redshirt freshmen and their predicaments:

QB Will Kuehne - Not in two-deep behind sophomore QBs. No playing time so far.

RB Oscar Adaway - Started the season as the number 3 back, didn’t get in until the 3rd quarter the 1st game. Has since proven to be our best back despite coming in at 3rd in the depth chart to start.

WR Kealon Jackson - Listed behind RS Sophomore and former walkon Rod Burns, who dropped both of his targets on Saturday.

WR Damon Ward - Not listed in two deep, no playing time so far.

WR/TE Khatib Lyles - Not listed in two deep, no playing time so far. Converted from receiver to tight end despite being one of the most highly recruited players on our entire roster as a receiver coming out.

TE Asher Alberding - Listed behind Jason Pirtle on the depth chart. No other sophomore, junior, or senior scholarship tight ends on the roster

OL Daxton Byers - Not currently in two-deep. Has not played meaningful snaps.

OL Chris Cassidy - In two-deep but has lost out on starting spot to RS Sophomore Daizion Carroll

OL John Brunner - Listed behind Carroll and Cassidy. Has not played meaningful snaps.

DL Kenneth Dotson - Listed behind RS Sophomore Davontae Mccrae at the traditional DE spot.

DL Jimmy Walker - Not in two-deep, presumably behind Mccrae and Dotson at that traditional DE spot.

LB Taylor Jacobs - Not in two-deep. Has not played meaningful snaps.

LB Grayson Murphy - Not in two-deep. Has not played meaningful snaps.

LB Gabriel Murphy - Listed behind KD Davis and Kyleb Howell. Has not played meaningful snaps.

DB Jevin Murray - In two-deep behind Cam Johnson but has not played meaningful snaps.

DB Dorian Morris - In two-deep behind Quinn Whitlock but has not played meaningful snaps.

In short, very few of these guys have been given any sort of opportunity this year to actually earn more playing time or supplant the older players who aren’t getting it done. Really just Oscar Adaway out of this group, and all it took was 222 yards on 25 carries in two games where he was so obviously the best back even they couldn’t ignore it.

I really do believe Littrell and his staff place too much emphasis on giving the older players the first, second, and third crack at playing time. Because we have seen situations where the redshirt freshman was clearly the better player but was not the first guy up (i.e. Adaway at RB this year, Shorter at WR last year). Not to mention Tre Siggers last year. And this group of redshirt freshmen were much more highly recruited than the guys above them.

How do we know this isn’t the case at other positions on the roster where we just never see the young guys despite the older guys performing at subpar levels? I really hope Littrell and his staff start feeling the pressure and stop with the politics, favoritism, or whatever you want to call it and start getting the most talent on the field that they can. And if this truly is the best we have, then they either recruited a bunch of busts or have done a terrible job in developing guys.

UNT 90 Grad · October 12, 2020

I thought Kuehne saw playing time against HBU. Am I wrong?

BillySee58 · October 12, 2020

19 minutes ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

I thought Kuehne saw playing time against HBU. Am I wrong?

He did. I changed up the way I was phrasing it as I went on to say “meaningful playing time” as in, has the player played any offensive or defensive snaps in a game before the outcome has already effectively been decided.

Edited October 12, 2020 by BillySee58

Texas Stranger · October 12, 2020

There are a few injuries involved (Adaway and K Jackson notably) and the COVID tracing bit, but yes, I was also wondering why the youth movement is being delayed .

agw0038 · October 12, 2020

I completely agree with this.

except for Will Khuene.

If Will Khuene is in consideration for meaningful playing time then things are bad.

VERY BAD.

Wag Tag · October 12, 2020

Now is the time to play news guys and see what you have for next year. I don’t know if we will finish the season with Covid so the opportunities need to happen now! GMG

untcampbell · October 12, 2020

And they keep their eligibility regardless of how many games they play, correct?

GMG

Big Z · October 12, 2020

2 hours ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

I thought Kuehne saw playing time against HBU. Am I wrong?

If you call going out there to get a quick fart out playing time...

wardly · October 12, 2020

We were picked to win last two games and blown out in both. We also are favored against MTSU, which is surprising since they just beat FAU. In my opinion we should just right this season off and play younger players so they can gain experience, especially at quarterback and secondary. What difference is it if we win one game or three?

MeanGreenTexan · October 12, 2020

6 minutes ago, wardly said:

We were picked to win last two games and blown out in both. We also are favored against MTSU, which is surprising since they just beat FAU. In my opinion we should just right this season off and play younger players so they can gain experience, especially at quarterback and secondary. What difference is it if we win one game or three?

Maybe getting away from Apogee is a prescription for "re-setting" that the team needs? I doubt it, but I hope so...

UNT 90 Grad · October 12, 2020

8 minutes ago, wardly said:

We were picked to win last two games and blown out in both.

Picked by Brett, but not others. We were 2.5 point underdogs against CLT.

Edited October 12, 2020 by UNT 90 Grad

BillySee58 · October 12, 2020

4 hours ago, Texas Stranger said:

There are a few injuries involved (Adaway and K Jackson notably) and the COVID tracing bit, but yes, I was also wondering why the youth movement is being delayed .

Jackson is injured? Wasn’t aware of that. Hope to see him get Burns’ reps if he’s healthy.

BillySee58 · October 12, 2020

3 hours ago, untcampbell said:

And they keep their eligibility regardless of how many games they play, correct?

GMG

Correct

greenminer · October 12, 2020

I'm have been very supportive of SL continuing his stay here, because I recognize a huge step up in quality of recruits. Nothing wrong with waiting to see this step up in talent, right?! But all this is moot if roster management is this strange. Add it to the list of biggest WTFs in recent Mean Green sports lore.

Todge bringing in a HS staff
Bedford's in-game substitutions
Tune's dog
SL roster management

Edited October 12, 2020 by greenminer

UNTLifer · October 12, 2020

Do we know if there is Covid or any other issues with any of these? I don't recall him being this way in the past. We ran with Fine as a true freshman. Darden and Bussey played extensively as underclassmen and there are other examples. This is such an odd year, that I don't want us to jump to conclusions. SL has always been pretty quiet regarding injuries and eligibility issues.

Snowy · October 12, 2020

I'm fairly certain the coaches are putting out the guys that give us the best chance to win. There would be no reason not to, especially considering everyone's eligibility is preserved this year.

I seem to recall there was a situation a few years ago in regards to the Quarterbacks on the team.... People wanted other, younger or transfer players to play meaningful snaps, and when the coaches finally gave in after desperation, everyone realized why they hadn't seen the field yet.

Point is: The depth chart shakes out the way it does, 98% of the time due to on-field performance.

UNTLifer · October 12, 2020

I will say that Wren Baker sure has been quiet during this season. Usually visible and in the media.

MeanGreenTexan · October 12, 2020

1 minute ago, greenminer said:

I'm have been very supportive of SL continuing his stay here, because I recognize a huge step up in quality of recruits. Nothing wrong with waiting to see this step up in talent, right?! But all this is moot if roster management is this strange. Add it to the list of biggest WTFs in recent Mean Green sports lore.

Todge bringing in a HS staff
Bedford's in-game substitutions
Tune's dog
SL roster management

McCarney's Iowa/Florida obsessions
Shanice's binder
Seth's flirtation/backout with KSSt.

Withers940 · October 12, 2020

6 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I made a comment that it has been frustrating seeing us play so poorly knowing we have recruited so well recently. More frustrating is the fact that these recruits are being relegated to the bench by guys who aren’t performing. I looked at our roster and noticed this really does seem to be true. Our redshirt freshmen aren’t playing, and it really seems like Littrell and his staff favor the older players. Here are our redshirt freshmen and their predicaments:

QB Will Kuehne - Not in two-deep behind sophomore QBs. No playing time so far.

RB Oscar Adaway - Started the season as the number 3 back, didn’t get in until the 3rd quarter the 1st game. Has since proven to be our best back despite coming in at 3rd in the depth chart to start.

WR Kealon Jackson - Listed behind RS Sophomore and former walkon Rod Burns, who dropped both of his targets on Saturday.

WR Damon Ward - Not listed in two deep, no playing time so far.

WR/TE Khatib Lyles - Not listed in two deep, no playing time so far. Converted from receiver to tight end despite being one of the most highly recruited players on our entire roster as a receiver coming out.

TE Asher Alberding - Listed behind Jason Pirtle on the depth chart. No other sophomore, junior, or senior scholarship tight ends on the roster

OL Daxton Byers - Not currently in two-deep. Has not played meaningful snaps.

OL Chris Cassidy - In two-deep but has lost out on starting spot to RS Sophomore Daizion Carroll

OL John Brunner - Listed behind Carroll and Cassidy. Has not played meaningful snaps.

DL Kenneth Dotson - Listed behind RS Sophomore Davontae Mccrae at the traditional DE spot.

DL Jimmy Walker - Not in two-deep, presumably behind Mccrae and Dotson at that traditional DE spot.

LB Taylor Jacobs - Not in two-deep. Has not played meaningful snaps.

LB Grayson Murphy - Not in two-deep. Has not played meaningful snaps.

LB Gabriel Murphy - Listed behind KD Davis and Kyleb Howell. Has not played meaningful snaps.

DB Jevin Murray - In two-deep behind Cam Johnson but has not played meaningful snaps.

DB Dorian Morris - In two-deep behind Quinn Whitlock but has not played meaningful snaps.

In short, very few of these guys have been given any sort of opportunity this year to actually earn more playing time or supplant the older players who aren’t getting it done. Really just Oscar Adaway out of this group, and all it took was 222 yards on 25 carries in two games where he was so obviously the best back even they couldn’t ignore it.

I really do believe Littrell and his staff place too much emphasis on giving the older players the first, second, and third crack at playing time. Because we have seen situations where the redshirt freshman was clearly the better player but was not the first guy up (i.e. Adaway at RB this year, Shorter at WR last year). Not to mention Tre Siggers last year. And this group of redshirt freshmen were much more highly recruited than the guys above them.

How do we know this isn’t the case at other positions on the roster where we just never see the young guys despite the older guys performing at subpar levels? I really hope Littrell and his staff start feeling the pressure and stop with the politics, favoritism, or whatever you want to call it and start getting the most talent on the field that they can. And if this truly is the best we have, then they either recruited a bunch of busts or have done a terrible job in developing guys.

Ward was in there a couple plays in the Fourth on Saturday and Kuehne was playing special teams last week against USM. Not meaningful to say the least

Do we know what Shorter's Injury was from last week? Also, D Simpson and KD Davis?

greeneagle1 · October 12, 2020

5 hours ago, agw0038 said:

I completely agree with this.

except for Will Khuene.

If Will Khuene is in consideration for meaningful playing time then things are bad.

VERY BAD.

I mean, we cant seem to get Bean or Aune to string together multiple consecutive scoring drives. They have flashes, but why not give the kid a shot at this point?

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Do we know if there is Covid or any other issues with any of these? I don't recall him being this way in the past. We ran with Fine as a true freshman. Darden and Bussey played extensively as underclassmen and there are other examples. This is such an odd year, that I don't want us to jump to conclusions. SL has always been pretty quiet regarding injuries and eligibility issues.

Lol that was due to there being no one else on the roster who could step up. Darvin Kidsey was our best returning receiver and Littrell cut him. Also remember, those were not "Littrell's guys". All the upperclassmen now were recruited by Littrell and were there for "the turnaround" and have also turned back to #OldDenton as well.

BillySee58 · October 12, 2020

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Do we know if there is Covid or any other issues with any of these? I don't recall him being this way in the past. We ran with Fine as a true freshman. Darden and Bussey played extensively as underclassmen and there are other examples. This is such an odd year, that I don't want us to jump to conclusions. SL has always been pretty quiet regarding injuries and eligibility issues.

A takeaway I had looking into this is that he is far more likely to play a true sophomore than a redshirt freshman. It’s like he wants them to have a year where they play sparingly before giving them a bigger role. The guys from the 2019 class who are playing the most are true sophomores (Simpson, Gaddie, Wood). None of those guys played much on offense/defense last year except maybe Simpson but that was forced due to injuries.

Bussey is another example. Look how much he played as a true freshman. Very little but played a lot as a sophomore. Similar for Darden, who did receive a decent amount of playing time as a true freshman but we were really light in depth at slot receiver, so there wasn’t really anyone blocking him. The slot receivers who played over him were Turner Smiley and Lawrence, who was a true sophomore walkon with like 1 catch heading into that season.

BillySee58 · October 12, 2020

2 hours ago, Snowy said:

I'm fairly certain the coaches are putting out the guys that give us the best chance to win. There would be no reason not to, especially considering everyone's eligibility is preserved this year.

I seem to recall there was a situation a few years ago in regards to the Quarterbacks on the team.... People wanted other, younger or transfer players to play meaningful snaps, and when the coaches finally gave in after desperation, everyone realized why they hadn't seen the field yet.

Point is: The depth chart shakes out the way it does, 98% of the time due to on-field performance.

I would feel a lot more confident if we hadn’t already seen it. Siggers was 4th on the depth chart going into the season despite showing as soon as he started getting the ball that he was clearly our best back last year. Why would your best back be 4th on your depth chart other than because experience is being overvalued? Last year it was the same for Jyaire Shorter. He was behind White and Bussey in the rotation and didn’t start playing a lot until the Bussey injury. Goes on to catch 9 TDs as a redshirt freshmen. And Adaway, came in behind Torrey and a hobbled Siggers and immediately showed he was the best we have.

Like I said, I really think Littrell wants to give guys a year, not including their redshirt year, where they don’t play much and get a taste of game action before passing on bigger responsibilities to them. Not saying that shaking this mindset will turn things around, but I think it will help expand our options when things aren’t working.

Snowy · October 12, 2020

3 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I would feel a lot more confident if we hadn’t already seen it. Siggers was 4th on the depth chart going into the season despite showing as soon as he started getting the ball that he was clearly our best back last year. Why would your best back be 4th on your depth chart other than because experience is being overvalued? Last year it was the same for Jyaire Shorter. He was behind White and Bussey in the rotation and didn’t start playing a lot until the Bussey injury. Goes on to catch 9 TDs as a redshirt freshmen. And Adaway, came in behind Torrey and a hobbled Siggers and immediately showed he was the best we have.

Like I said, I really think Littrell wants to give guys a year, not including their redshirt year, where they don’t play much and get a taste of game action before passing on bigger responsibilities to them. Not saying that shaking this mindset will turn things around, but I think it will help expand our options when things aren’t working.

Perhaps the drills they run in practice aren't close enough to in-game situations. Therefore you can have someone that practices well and performs poorly in games, or practices poorly and performs well in games.

Marty · October 13, 2020

4 hours ago, greeneagle1 said:

I mean, we cant seem to get Bean or Aune to string together multiple consecutive scoring drives. They have flashes, but why not give the kid a shot at this point?

Lol that was due to there being no one else on the roster who could step up. Darvin Kidsey was our best returning receiver and Littrell cut him. Also remember, those were not "Littrell's guys". All the upperclassmen now were recruited by Littrell and were there for "the turnaround" and have also turned back to #OldDenton as well.

If I remember correctly, Kidsy got into some trouble and got kicked off the team.