SMU / North Texas 1990: The FIGHT

[Harry]

This series is bigger than just a football game on the schedule.  What happened way back in 1990 is just another example of this.  Shout out to @PlummMeanGreenfor providing this archived video from the battle in Denton.

[untjim1995]

So whatever happened with those “serious” talks with the Big Eight back then??

[PlummMeanGreen]

After the “empty the benches brawl” I believe that was FFR in the background twirling & running with the UNT battle flag which begs the question:  
• Was North Texas the very first school in the Lone Star State with the Texas flag in our school colors?   In fact, was that inspired by the Paramount movie they shot on campus when FFR played the Armadillo mascot, too?

.....................BEAT SMU!....................
🤢 ➡️ D-E-F-E-N-S-E—-step up your game!  

[PlummMeanGreen]

The SMU Coach, one Forrest Gregg was the man on the Fouts Field sideline that evening for the ‘Stangs.  I think many of us remember him when he played for the Packers in the famous Ice Bowl game vs the Cowboys.  The man loved his school alright.   He & UNT Coach Corky Nelson were probably the 2 most calm guys at Fouts after that blocked field goal.  
 

 

[MCMLXXX]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

This series is bigger than just a football game on the schedule.  What happened way back in 1990 is just another example of this.  Shout out to @PlummMeanGreenfor providing this archived video from the battle in Denton.

Fouts was SRO that night. The largest crowd I ever saw at Fouts prior to the endzone expansion.

I will be bringing a friend Saturday who played and was involved in the brawl. He was wearing a white jersey that night. If you see him at the Club wearing the wrong colors don’t give him to hard a time.

[UNTLifer]

17 hours ago, MCMLXXX said:

Fouts was SRO that night. The largest crowd I ever saw at Fouts prior to the endzone expansion.

I will be bringing a friend Saturday who played and was involved in the brawl. He was wearing a white jersey that night. If you see him at the Club wearing the wrong colors don’t give him to hard a time.

You have a friend from THAT school?

Edited September 18, 2020 by UNTLifer

[drex]

Battle flag created in 1986...first of its kind, as far as I know.  Necessary Roughness was in 1991, so they used the Battle Flag that was 5 years old then.

[3XNTGRAD]

I had a literal front row seat to the brawl. About the time the Battle Flag runs by, you can see the white bell if you look closely (middle right of the frame in front of the wall) and I'm in the stands right behind it on the first row (I'm one of those blobs you can't make out very well).

[Hunter Green]

8 hours ago, Harry said:

This series is bigger than just a football game on the schedule.  What happened way back in 1990 is just another example of this.  Shout out to @PlummMeanGreenfor providing this archived video from the battle in Denton.

IMG_0132.MOV 350.34 MB · 43 downloads

That's right, smut Broncos. Don't mess with North Texas!

GO MEAN GREEN!

[meangreen11]

Fun video to watch!

[ADLER]

Am I the only person who reads those "9 months later..." messages and hears them in his head with a Spongebob narrator voice?

Edited June 28, 2021 by ADLER

[PlummMeanGreen]

Notes From the 1990 SMU-UNT game.

••• First of all—NORTH TEXAS WON THE GOL’DARNED FOOTBALL GAME, 14-7!   It was..... “Davis to Pegram”, “Davis to Pegram”, “Davis to Pegram” all—night—long!  

••• That SMU-UNT video clip came from a VHS (turned into a DVD) that I taped from the “live” TV game back  in 1990.  I gave the DVD to some guy from the “Beyond the Green” TV series who was at one of Harry’s pregame tailgate gatherings.  He said he would have it digitized, but not sure if he ever did.  (Did you)? 🙄

••• A UNT fan (& GMG member) turned the clip into a YouTube video short.  I can’t find it on YouTube now, but at one time I did see it there. Wonder where it went? Did it seem too much a product of free market capitalism to be able to stay on YouTube?😱 (Can I say that)?😳

••• Some SMU fan named Lawrence Perkins during the week of that 1990 Fouts Field classic wrote a lengthy “Letter to the NT Daily” editor teasing the North Texas football  team & it’s fans about how the ‘Stangs were going to take care of business at Fouts Field at  the forthcoming Saturday night matchup. A question some asked:  Was Lawrence Perkins an SMU fake or a plant? Only the Green Shadow knows. Moving on...

••• That SMU-UNT game was televised “live” & still sold out.  SMU alum Alan Stone & national TV broadcaster Merle Harmon were the broadcast team on Channel 21 (or was it 27) that evening.  Both did a fine unbiased job. (Wish Apogee would have been around at the time). 

•••  Some have said fans were actually turned away from this game lest the Denton Fire Marshall write up our favorite school.  Not sure of the validity of that. 

•••GMG member & frequent poster “drex’s” UNT battle flag creation (also used in the Paramount movie “Necessary Roughness” which was filmed at UNT) was also prominent throughout the 1990 SMU-UNT game; anyway, anyone else happen to notice how other Texas FBS schools have since copied drex’s idea by creating Texas flags in all their own respective school colors &/or school logos)?👏👏 WAY TO GO, JIM “drex” HOBDY! 
 

••• As I recall, FFR (FireFightin’Rick) carried the battle flag that night & was very effectively firing up the UNT student side with it.  (Correct, FFR)?

❇️🦅❇️ GMG!

Edited June 28, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

[ADLER]

On 6/28/2021 at 4:47 AM, PlummMeanGreen said:

Notes From the 1990 SMU-UNT game.

••• First of all—NORTH TEXAS WON THE GOL’DARNED FOOTBALL GAME, 14-7!   It was..... “Davis to Pegram”, “Davis to Pegram”, “Davis to Pegram” all—night—long!  

 

Pegram pounded right up the middle behind center Clay Bode, but don't forget that Scott Davis rushed for 201 yards himself, mostly cutting to the right side behind All-American Scott Bowles at right tackle.

And yes, North Texas won the game 14-7, but also took a knee to run out the clock at the SMU 1 yard line.

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Coach Andy Mac

[PlummMeanGreen]

9 hours ago, ADLER said:

Pegram pounded right up the middle behind center Clay Bode, but don't forget that Scott Davis rushed for 201 yards himself, mostly cutting to the right side behind All-American Scott Bowles at right tackle.

And yes, North Texas won the game 14-7, but also took a knee to run out the clock at the SMU 1 yard line.

 

 

 

For sure UNT QB Scott Davis managed that game with the precision of a world class surgeon like you’d find at H-Town’s Texas Medical Center.  

 

❇️🦅❇️

Edited June 29, 2021 by Coach Andy Mac

[DentonStang]

Why is this game, against a really bad post-death penalty team full of freshmen, mostly with no business in DI football, the one to celebrate?  Why not, say, the most recent victory over SMU which was actually a real football team?

Edited June 29, 2021 by DentonStang

[PlummMeanGreen]

SMU should actually be thanking North Texas.

After the Mean Green shellacked SMU in 2018 (see above video); anyway, it was that Mustang mine disaster that inspired your school to forget the traditional  recruitment of HS players in 2019, but rather go a totally new route in college football recruiting.  Legal—illegal or not, y’all were going to have a mass wholesale of new starters in 2019 even if it hair-lipped Peruna & y’all would have them ready for the season opening UNT game.  

So again—SMU would be hosting the MG the next Fall at your Ford.  Seems  the SMU elect got a tad panicked knowing the traditional  recruiting  of freshmen & a few JUCOS would just not be enough to open the 2019 season vs the North Texas Mean Green so.....WALA!🔜SMU would soon bring in 17(?) transfers (+ 1 former UT starter at QB).

 🤔Question?  How long had yall been recruiting that QB while he was at UT?  About as long as y’all had been recruiting Siggers while he was at UNT?  (I’d say y’all very quietly started with Sigg’ right after he lit it up at Ford at the 2019 game). 

Honestly (or better yet—dishonestly) the Stangs would have paid players if they had to (since your school is expertise at doing that kind of thing as it is——anyway, that’s what SMU would have done to keep North Texas from putting on a repeat Apogee-like performance of the 2018 game. (See above video—again). 
Y’all suffered such so much  embarrassment from the 2018 game; a game where y’all had no 1’st downs in the first half?😮 
“OH, THE HUMANITY!”  

❇️🦅❇️

Edited June 29, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

[untjim1995]

2 hours ago, DentonStang said:

Why is this game, against a really bad post-death penalty team full of freshmen, mostly with no business in DI football, the one to celebrate?  Why not, say, the most recent victory of SMU which was actually a real football team?

The year before this, in your return season, SMU absolutely murdered us in Dallas at Ownby, 35-9. That game made no sense at all…none. And after we heard the old remarks about not belonging with you guys in the SWC, we had a year to stew on it—and we literally beat y’all up that day…

[DentonStang]

Y'all are crazy on the transfer topic. That's the new normal in college football.  It's critical for a new coach on a rebuild. The old cycle of trying to recruit of out high school, and getting schlacked for 3 years waiting for them to mature and losing all recruiting momentum, has shown to be an endless losing cycle that you at UNT know just as much as anyone. 

 

New coaches need player upgrades after a failed coach ASAP, these players need a new school for a variety of reasons. It's win-win for everyone.

The idea that a kid, who only cares about you because you offered them, is a beloved family member because they came from high school but a soulless mercenary because they spent a year or two at another school before coming is silly. Do you think Siggers cared anything for UNT or SMU before getting offered?  OR any other player on either team?

Edited June 29, 2021 by DentonStang

[DentonStang]

28 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

The year before this, in your return season, SMU absolutely murdered us in Dallas at Ownby, 35-9. That game made no sense at all…none. And after we heard the old remarks about not belonging with you guys in the SWC, we had a year to stew on it—and we literally beat y’all up that day…

I think I'm just not going to get it.  In 1989 losing to SMU is losing to a team of all freshmen, mostly unrecruited by DI-A programs, one of the worst teams in the history of college football, who just got obliterated by Houston for 95 points the week before. Sure, you probably underestimated SMU, but losing pretty much proved the point that you didn't belong on the SWC by a long shot. 

Even winning in 1990 against a still truly horrible SMU by only a touchdown when every other team blew them out* doesn't say much.

 

*SMU blew out Vandy to start the season that year for their only win. No clue what happened there. 

[greenminer]

5 hours ago, DentonStang said:

Why is this game, against a really bad post-death penalty team full of freshmen, mostly with no business in DI football, the one to celebrate?  Why not, say, the most recent victory over SMU which was actually a real football team?

I personally like to revisit all of our SMU wins.

You personally like to visit all our threads.

[PlummMeanGreen]

4 hours ago, DentonStang said:

Y'all are crazy on the transfer topic. That's the new normal in college football.  It's critical for a new coach on a rebuild. The old cycle of trying to recruit of out high school, and getting schlacked for 3 years waiting for them to mature and losing all recruiting momentum, has shown to be an endless losing cycle that you at UNT know just as much as anyone. 

 

New coaches need player upgrades after a failed coach ASAP, these players need a new school for a variety of reasons. It's win-win for everyone.

The idea that a kid, who only cares about you because you offered them, is a beloved family member because they came from high school but a soulless mercenary because they spent a year or two at another school before coming is silly. Do you think Siggers cared anything for UNT or SMU before getting offered?  OR any other player on either team?

I don’t see Tre Siggers as the problem in any of this & most of us only wish him  success (except for our game); but I’m still trying to understand the bureaucrats at the NCAA headquarters opening up this portal can of worms during the time of college student’s lives when many older adults & supervisors are trying to impress on all of them the concept of loyalty.

Yes, there are exceptions when a change of scenery for an athlete is a good thing & even necessary, but not when a small army of athletes across America want to change for changes sake rather than considering honoring the first school who honored them with a scholarship (when others may not have been offering at all).  

❇️🦅❇️

Edited June 29, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

[PlummMeanGreen]

Harry, I think newbie UNT students (maybe some SMU’ers, too) might want to read & watch the videos in this thread since they were still just a 💚gleam in their Dad’s eyes.

Someone put the 1990 short vignette on YouTube but I couldn’t find it.  Maybe one of your GMG members can?

GMG

[rcade]

On 6/29/2021 at 2:00 PM, DentonStang said:

I think I'm just not going to get it.

It's not hard to understand why a school that was in Division I-AA back then -- due to the malicious incompetence of the decision to drop down in 1982 -- would celebrate a win over a Southwest Conference team from across the Metroplex whose students habitually tried to steal our girlfriends using their better cars, looks and money.

You were just risen from death but still had 20 more scholarships and Forrest Gregg as coach.

The fact that the game included an epic brawl in which our coach was out there throwing haymakers made it an all-time Mean Green victory.

I was at that game. I am a gentle soul but seeing the fight got my adrenaline surging so much I wanted to hand-deliver some knuckle sandwiches. There was so much testosterone in the air that even Eppy was feeling warlike.

[untjim1995]

On 9/17/2020 at 1:25 PM, untjim1995 said:

So whatever happened with those “serious” talks with the Big Eight back then??

I will go to my grave believing that Hayden Fry's biggest miscalculation was thinking we could've gotten int he SWC and never even pitching the Big Eight on an invite. 

The Big Eight could've gotten into Northern Texas and made a huge impact in DFW. Those eyeballs would have been a nice addition to a conference that had St. Louis, Denver, Kansas City, Omaha, and Tulsa as their main markets. And we would've gotten games here with OU, Nebraska, Colorado, and OSU for football, when all four were pretty damn good to incredible. And then, add in for good measure, basketball games with Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, and Iowa State, all of whom were good to great in hoops. 

Instead, we got volleyball spiked back to reality when the SWC refused to add us, then Hayden left, and we basically gave up. That sequence of events should haunt anyone who was around back then--because we would be in the Big 12 today if we had that kind of foresight.

[PlummMeanGreen]

On 6/29/2021 at 12:26 PM, untjim1995 said:

The year before this, in your return season, SMU absolutely murdered us in Dallas at Ownby, 35-9. That game made no sense at all…none. And after we heard the old remarks about not belonging with you guys in the SWC, we had a year to stew on it—and we literally beat y’all up that day…

👍👍

Never understood how we could not have better prepared for that game at Ownby Stadium. .
God rest his soul, but I was mad at Corky that whole season after that game. I may still have splinters in my butt from those old Ownby Stadium wooden bleachers. (Honestly, I would have loved exploring underneath that stadium in old closets, storage rooms, etc, before they got it ready to use post-DP).  
___________________

In Memory of our Friend one Richard Scarborough Spears—the creator of the Flying Worm.  Rick would have been all over this SMU game at fabulous Apogee Stadium this Saturday evening.  
Win one for the creator of “the Worm”, Mean Green!  

GMG!

Edited August 31, 2022 by PlummMeanGreen