KState Players Threaten Boycott

[MCMLXXX]

Over tweet of KSU student. 

 

https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article243850532.html

[El Paso Eagle]

Seemingly every member of the Wildcats’ active roster shared a letter on social media Saturday that states they will not “play, practice or meet” until K-State administrators create a policy that will allow a student to be expelled for displaying “openly racist, threatening or disrespectful actions” toward any of their fellow students.

 

At first glance it's seems like a good thing, but who will get to decide what the standards are? Let's concede that "racist" comments could possible be defined.  "Disrespectful Actions" could cover almost anything. Think on here where pictures of other teams players are posted and we go after them?? "Threatening Actions" - What about the comments that are made against other teams players by student sections at games? Basically they are demanding to right to invoke censorship. 

[El Paso Eagle]

For those disagreeing, you don't see any issues? No concerns about who gets to set the rules? 

 

[Quoner]

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

At first glance it's seems like a good thing, but who will get to decide what the standards are? Let's concede that "racist" comments could possible be defined.  "Disrespectful Actions" could cover almost anything. Think on here where pictures of other teams players are posted and we go after them?? "Threatening Actions" - What about the comments that are made against other teams players by student sections at games? Basically they are demanding to right to invoke censorship. 

When some chud in a golf polo can't post a picture of a linebacker with dreadlocks alongside the Predator or Whoopi for the 50th time, democracy is officially dead.

I'll admit I missed the memo on our racially charged student section banter (because I don't think it exists), but if they were and we asked them not be racist, I'd hate to compromise our zero game winning streak at Apogee. 

[UNTFan23]

2 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

“openly racist, threatening or disrespectful actions” toward any of their fellow students.

This last point needs more clarification in my mind. 

[MeanGreenTeeth]

His tweet was definitely disrespectful and in poor taste, but under that standard almost all the students would be expelled at some point.   Was it racist? No. Not explicitly at least.  Slander?  Nope.  Threatening? Nope.   A university should be a place where people are free to express their ideas, even if they're unpopular.   The athletes really need to grow up and understand that you don't have a right not to be offended.  

[ColoradoEagle]

30 minutes ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

His tweet was definitely disrespectful and in poor taste, but under that standard almost all the students would be expelled at some point.   Was it racist? No. Not explicitly at least.  Slander?  Nope.  Threatening? Nope.   A university should be a place where people are free to express their ideas, even if they're unpopular.   The athletes really need to grow up and understand that you don't have a right not to be offended.  

 

Quote

Jaden McNeil posted the tweet. He is a junior at K-State who has been in the news previously for founding the white-supremacist group America First Students in Manhattan.

This is pretty gross. Either you didn't read the article, or you think white supremacy is a discourse worth having.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

22 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

 

This is pretty gross. Either you didn't read the article, or you think white supremacy is a discourse worth having.

It doesn't matter what I think or what you think.  That's the whole point of free speech.  There is no need to protect popular speech.  He will get what is coming to him in the court of public opinion, but there is no reason for the government (a state run school in this instance) to punish him for expressing his beliefs.   That's the same whether he is a member of the communist party, nazi party, Nation of Islam, Westboro Baptist, or a Wahhabi Muslim.

I get confused why this has suddenly become so controversial a stance in certain circles.  It has been the mainstream free speech view of both the Democratic and Republican parties and the US courts for as long as I'm aware.  You don't have a right not to be offended.

Edited June 29, 2020 by MeanGreenTeeth

[Quoner]

13 minutes ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

It doesn't matter what I think or what you think.  That's the whole point of free speech.  There is no need to protect popular speech.  He will get what is coming to him in the court of public opinion, but there is no reason for the government (a state run school in this instance) to punish him for expressing his beliefs.   That's the same whether he is a member of the communist party, nazi party, Nation of Islam, Westboro Baptist, or a Wahhabi Muslim.

I get confused why this has suddenly become so controversial a stance in certain circles.  It has been the mainstream free speech view of both the Democratic and Republican parties and the US courts for as long as I'm aware.  You don't have a right not to be offended.

[MeanGreenTexan]

The players are coming from a genuine place, but they aren’t being specific enough in what they want.  Vague, open-ended requests usually don’t fly.  And there are some serious ambiguities in “create a policy that will allow a student to be expelled for displaying “openly racist, threatening ordisrespectful actions” toward any of their fellow students.”  And if the basis for being punished is a tweet (however offensive the tweet might be), this demand is in serious trouble.

In this particular case, the dude is very clearly a turd of a person, and his tweet is offensive, and his little group of friends are clearly racist, but he hasn’t done anything illegal. 

[El Paso Eagle]

51 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

 

This is pretty gross. Either you didn't read the article, or you think white supremacy is a discourse worth having.

I believe the White supremacy, or any group that promotes "supremacy" over other based on race is despicable. 

The concern is where is the line drawn and who is the one that has the final say? I am not saying that anyone should be able to say anything, but when you look at the way their request was worded it leaves it open that just about anyone, or any organization would be in jeopardy of expulsion or censorship if they offend anyone that does not agree with them. It is not OK to try and get around the protection of free speech just because you don't like what is being said. 

[Quoner]

28 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The players are coming from a genuine place, but they aren’t being specific enough in what they want.  Vague, open-ended requests usually don’t fly.  And there are some serious ambiguities in “create a policy that will allow a student to be expelled for displaying “openly racist, threatening ordisrespectful actions” toward any of their fellow students.”  And if the basis for being punished is a tweet (however offensive the tweet might be), this demand is in serious trouble.

In this particular case, the dude is very clearly a turd of a person, and his tweet is offensive, and his little group of friends are clearly racist, but he hasn’t done anything illegal. 

 

26 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I believe the White supremacy, or any group that promotes "supremacy" over other based on race is despicable. 

The concern is where is the line drawn and who is the one that has the final say? I am not saying that anyone should be able to say anything, but when you look at the way their request was worded it leaves it open that just about anyone, or any organization would be in jeopardy of expulsion or censorship if they offend anyone that does not agree with them. It is not OK to try and get around the protection of free speech just because you don't like what is being said. 

So, does this mean you guys are against universities having honor codes?

[El Paso Eagle]

3 minutes ago, Quoner said:

 

So, does this mean you guys are against universities having honor codes?

No, it means I am against having an open ended rule that allows other to pick and choose whose opinions can be heard. Measurable rules that are put in place where people have a clear understanding of what is and is not allowed are totally different than having a rule where the guideline is "threatening or disrespectful actions" which could have endless interpretations 

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, Quoner said:

 

So, does this mean you guys are against universities having honor codes?

Those only exist at private institutions right?   In cases like BYU or Baylor, don’t the students sign those before they enroll?

I’m saying if this guy got expelled from KSU (a public institution) based on this tweet, KSU is going to be sued and likely lose.  
 

It has to be a lot tighter, and likely has to cede dumbass statements made on Twitter In order to yield to 1st amendment protections the students have.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

6 minutes ago, Quoner said:

 

So, does this mean you guys are against universities having honor codes?

No, but public (government) universities should have no honor code that violates an individual's 1st amendment rights.  I'm pretty sure UNT's code is consistent with this.  Private universities can have whatever honor code they like and restrict whatever speech they want on whatever arbitrary grounds they choose.

[UNTFan23]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Those only exist at private institutions right?   In cases like BYU or Baylor, don’t the students sign those before they enroll?

I’m saying if this guy got expelled from KSU (a public institution) based on this tweet, KSU is going to be sued and likely lose.  
 

It has to be a lot tighter, and likely has to cede dumbass statements made on Twitter In order to yield to 1st amendment protections the students have.

At UNT, students are expected to follow a Code of Conduct. Any number of things a student does outside of school can get them into hot water with the Dean of Students.

[Quoner]

Just now, El Paso Eagle said:

No, it means I am against having an open ended rule that allows other to pick and choose whose opinions can be heard. Measurable rules that are put in place where people have a clear understanding of what is and is not allowed are totally different than having a rule where the guideline is "threatening or disrespectful actions" which could have endless interpretations 

Here's the KSU student code of conduct: https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html. 

Quote

3. Conduct directed towards another person(s) that is intended to and does substantially interfere with another’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security.

17. Conduct that is disorderly, lewd, or obscene; breach of peace; or inciting another person to breach the peace.

Not sure how advocating for the advancement of a master white race doesn't check those boxes, but I'm also not the one questioning why everyone can't just give the white supremacy teen a fair shake. 

[Quoner]

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Those only exist at private institutions right?   In cases like BYU or Baylor, don’t the students sign those before they enroll?

I’m saying if this guy got expelled from KSU (a public institution) based on this tweet, KSU is going to be sued and likely lose.  
 

It has to be a lot tighter, and likely has to cede dumbass statements made on Twitter In order to yield to 1st amendment protections the students have.

Google your favorite school or university and honor code or student code of conduct and prepare to live. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

At UNT, students are expected to follow a Code of Conduct. Any number of things a student does outside of school can get them into hot water with the Dean of Students.

For sure!  I’ve never read it before, but perused quickly & found this:

”This section (B6) should not be construed to infringe on any right of free speech, assembly or expression guaranteed by the Constitutions of the United States and Texas.”

It’s just hard to enforce something like what the KSU teammates are asking for.  It’s noble, and they should be applauded for their efforts, but I would suggest maybe obtaining legal counsel (they could likely get it pro bono today) and come back again with something that might stick.

[El Paso Eagle]

6 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

At UNT, students are expected to follow a Code of Conduct. Any number of things a student does outside of school can get them into hot water with the Dean of Students.

At a quick glance, rules in place could get a lot of people in trouble quickly if they choose to strictly enforce

 

[El Paso Eagle]

8 minutes ago, Quoner said:

Here's the KSU student code of conduct: https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html. 

Not sure how advocating for the advancement of a master white race doesn't check those boxes, but I'm also not the one questioning why everyone can't just give the white supremacy teen a fair shake. 

Where did anyone here advocate the advancement of the white master race?

[Quoner]

5 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Where did anyone here advocate the advancement of the white master race?

The other student at the center of the controversy did, but you also might be thinking of @eulesseagle

[MeanGreenTexan]

28 minutes ago, Quoner said:

Here's the KSU student code of conduct: https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html. 

Not sure how advocating for the advancement of a master white race doesn't check those boxes, but I'm also not the one questioning why everyone can't just give the white supremacy teen a fair shake. 

His little organization needs to come under more scrutiny.  I’m not sure how he was able to get it past KSUs Student Activities office, but somehow he did.

Again, a simple tweet, however crass & disrespectful it was isn’t going to violate a code of conduct.   But this guy better believe he’ll have the entire university’s eyes & I bet they look for other ways to get rid of him in a more protected way from KSUs standpoint.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

16 minutes ago, Quoner said:

The other student at the center of the controversy did, but you also might be thinking of @eulesseagle

Again.. principles matter.  I don't care if he's the grand dragon of the White People and Mayonnaise Superiority glee club, his 1st amendment rights apply at a government institution.   That doesn't mean he can scream "White Power" in the middle of a lecture, but it does mean he can say anything ideological on the public square.

Regardless of that.. I'm just saying that people need to understand that there are jackasses in life that you have to deal with as an adult.  One twit out of 20k students doesn't make the institution bad and it isn't an excuse to not carry through with your commitments.  It's not a rational nor mature response.  Having integrity means doing the right thing even if others don't.

[Censored by Laurie]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

Again.. principles matter.  I don't care if he's the grand dragon of the White People and Mayonnaise Superiority glee club, his 1st amendment rights apply at a government institution.   That doesn't mean he can scream "White Power" in the middle of a lecture, but it does mean he can say anything ideological on the public square.

again...that's not what the first amendment says. 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances

at no point does the first amendment state or even imply that one can say anything they want with complete impunity and no fear of personal, professional or possibly bodily repercussions. he simply can't be jailed for vocalizing opinion/dissent/vulgarity. 

to your example...he can say anything ideological on the public square and he can actually scream "White Power" in a lecture and not be arrested/imprisoned...but he can lose privilege, his job and his place at a pubic or private institution.

being kicked out of a public university is not tantamount to being arrested/imprisoned by the state. 

furthermore...the university is not compelled by the boycott to act. it can chose America First Students of Manhattan over the K. State football team. there are repercussions to both decisions, though. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Censored by Laurie