UT Athletes demand removal of racist song

DeepGreen · June 13, 2020

22 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

If I attend a UT event I have no choice but to hear “the eyes of Texas” at least 70 times. Rap music, maybe I do and maybe I don’t. And, to be more specific to the actual argument these athletes are making, if I was an athlete at UT I would have no choice but to sing “the eyes of Texas” while participating in singing rap lyrics is, again, not compulsory.

I also think that the straw man you put up ignores something that most straw men lately (like “black on black crime” and “what about Chicago”) ignore. It is entirely possible to be against two things at once. What if a UT athlete considers “the eyes of Texas” offensive AND considers modern rap music offensive?

Probably my ignorance, but I’ve never, ever paid attention to the “Eyes” lyrics. Am I a racist. Hardly.

Edited June 13, 2020 by DeepGreen

UNTexas · June 13, 2020

I'm offended by things I see and hear all the time but I don't think they should be deleted or torn down. Most folks are that way too. I'm sure there are way way way more alumni from all races and nationalities for that matter that love the song and traditions of their university.

A man being choked to death is the real outrage. (The police involved are being prosecuted and will see justice.) A school song being attacked under the banner of a real atrocity is a bit much.

I put this up there with removing the Police Dog from the cartoon Paw Patrol or Gone with the Wind being taken off streaming services. It just seems like people demanding tolerance might tolerate a school's song or a puppy with a badge and keep their eye on things that really matter.

Either way, if the players are seriously upset at Texas I would love to see them play here because being a NT football fan is truly gut wrenching at times and we need all the talent we can get.

Edited June 13, 2020 by UNTexas

ntmeangreen11 · June 13, 2020

This thread is a beauty Cougar King with a non troll post , "ageism" reference, and people against this conveniently ignoring the video Billy posted.

Holy shit we need football back (safely)

emmitt01 · June 13, 2020

17 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

Probably my ignorance, but I’ve never, ever paid attention to the “Eyes” lyrics. Am I a racist. Hardly.

And I don’t recall anyone ever implying that you are one

emmitt01 · June 13, 2020

14 minutes ago, UNTexas said:

I'm offended by things I see and hear all the time but I don't think they should be deleted or torn down. Most folks are that way too. I'm sure there are way way way more alumni from all races and nationalities for that matter that love the song and traditions of their university.

A man being choked to death is the real outrage. (The police involved are being prosecuted and will see justice.) A school song being attacked under the banner of a real atrocity is a bit much.

I put this up there with removing the Police Dog from the cartoon Paw Patrol or Gone with the Wind being taken off streaming services. It just seems like people demanding tolerance might tolerate a school's song or a puppy with a badge and keep their eye on things that really matter.

Either way, if the players are seriously upset at Texas I would love to see them play here because being a NT football fan is truly gut wrenching at times.

Agree that Paw Patrol is fine...have no problem with live PD...disagree with keeping Gone With The Wind on television (without proper contextualization being added)...and side with UT athletes if they feel that participating in their school song causes them moral discomfort.

What do you know, it IS possible to not take a hardline stance in one direction or another

DeepGreen · June 13, 2020

7 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

And I don’t recall anyone ever implying that you are one

You are correct.

CMJ · June 13, 2020

So, what I'm getting is the actual original lyrics of the tune were racist/demeaning, but not the lyrics to the UT Fight Song itself? I kinda feel like this is a shaky one to be demanding. Tunes are often repurposed into new songs - or at least they used to be.

Hell even the Star Spangled Banner started out as a British drinking song with completely different lyrics.

I guess if the athletes are gonna raise that big a protest, the school is probably gonna cave but this seems like a bit of a reach to me.

Edited June 13, 2020 by CMJ

emmitt01 · June 13, 2020

And, while we’re discussing UT and racial issues, I thought this piece about Tom Herman’s thoughts should be included in the conversation.

https://usports.org/texas-head-coach-tom-herman-discusses-double-standard-for-black-student-athletes/

Milo · June 13, 2020

Spoiler alert: Modern day rap does not spoil the youth.

NorthTexasSportsNetwork · June 13, 2020

Hard eye roll

MCMLXXX · June 13, 2020

59 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

And, while we’re discussing UT and racial issues, I thought this piece about Tom Herman’s thoughts should be included in the conversation.

https://usports.org/texas-head-coach-tom-herman-discusses-double-standard-for-black-student-athletes/

I guess you caught the sexist comment as well. I am surprised he hasn’t been called out on that issue.

aztecskin · June 13, 2020

The video Billy posted and the link to the medium article are key in understanding the point about removing the Eyes of Texas as a song.

It is amazing that so many aspects of university life and traditions are really just fossilized pop culture of the 1920s. Marching bands, dancing girls, and minstrel songs were super popular in the first half of the 20th century and are only maintained in high schools and colleges.

Its fine until you realize that means the problematic aspects of that popular culture is maintained. The answer is to create new ones. Think of how silly it is to still be singing the same song some students thought up in 1901 (in the case of Yale's Bola Boola). Most of these songs were just rewritten lyrics of popular songs.

So if the students want to come up with new lyrics to Drake's new song and that becomes the school/fight/whatever song at UNT or UT or whatever that is the answer to this thing.

(Ours was written in 1939 by Francis Stroup).

KRAM1 · June 13, 2020

9 hours ago, Green Crazy said:

I've been trying to figure out why as well. This is from wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth. Also, from wikipedia, it said the song debuted at one of those shows but nothing else.

"The lyrics are said to be intended to poke fun at University President Colonel Prather. Prather had attended Washington College, now Washington and Lee University, whose president, Robert E. Lee, would frequently tell his students, "the eyes of the South are upon you." Prather was known for including in his speeches a similar admonition, "The eyes of Texas are upon you," meaning that the state of Texas was watching and expecting the students to go out and do great things."

Perspective is interesting, isn't it?

GrandGreen · June 13, 2020

2 hours ago, aztecskin said:

The video Billy posted and the link to the medium article are key in understanding the point about removing the Eyes of Texas as a song.

It is amazing that so many aspects of university life and traditions are really just fossilized pop culture of the 1920s. Marching bands, dancing girls, and minstrel songs were super popular in the first half of the 20th century and are only maintained in high schools and colleges.

Its fine until you realize that means the problematic aspects of that popular culture is maintained. The answer is to create new ones. Think of how silly it is to still be singing the same song some students thought up in 1901 (in the case of Yale's Bola Boola). Most of these songs were just rewritten lyrics of popular songs.

So if the students want to come up with new lyrics to Drake's new song and that becomes the school/fight/whatever song at UNT or UT or whatever that is the answer to this thing.

(Ours was written in 1939 by Francis Stroup).

Could just abandon football and basketball as they are just fossilized pop culture.

aztecskin · June 13, 2020

42 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Could just abandon football and basketball as they are just fossilized pop culture.

I realize you are posting this as a extreme example to show how my thought process doesn't make sense -- but yeah. We have to examine everything and not just accept it unthinkingly.

Like, for example. I think that college sports as we know them could easily be spun off into for-profit athletic clubs that compete professionally, that exist to benefit the university's academic mission. That would be a way to evolve the current model and not defended blindly.

A North Texas Athletic Club Inc could sponsor professional teams in all the ones it sponsors now, and provide a path for professional development of its students. You could major in accounting, and get an internship at the Club. Major in sports management, and learn under someone actively doing sports management etc.

It could still serve the mission without being the same thing we do now.

I know a lot of you like to say "what is the big deal? Move on" -- well the same challenge can be put to you: what is the big deal with keeping it the same? Accept some evolution and move on.

THOR · June 13, 2020

5 hours ago, CMJ said:

So, what I'm getting is the actual original lyrics of the tune were racist/demeaning, but not the lyrics to the UT Fight Song itself? I kinda feel like this is a shaky one to be demanding. Tunes are often repurposed into new songs - or at least they used to be.

Hell even the Star Spangled Banner started out as a British drinking song with completely different lyrics.

I guess if the athletes are gonna raise that big a protest, the school is probably gonna cave but this seems like a bit of a reach to me.

if students don't like it, don't attend the school. just like the clemson stuff going on. students were ok to take the scholarships and notoreity to get into the pros, didn't have a problem then, why now? maybe this is the white guy in me, but if something offends me, it has always offended me. i don't understand waking up one day and thinking that something that i have been totally okay with for years is suddenly offensive.

Edited June 13, 2020 by THOR

CMJ · June 13, 2020

14 minutes ago, THOR said:

if students don't like it, don't attend the school. just like the clemson stuff going on. students were ok to take the scholarships and notoreity to get into the pros, didn't have a problem then, why now? maybe this is the white guy in me, but if something offends me, it has always offended me. i don't understand waking up one day and thinking that something that i have been totally okay with for years is suddenly offensive.

Well, for some folks I guess it HAS always been an issue. They're now capitalizing on the moment to take care of something they have disliked for a long time.

THOR · June 13, 2020

6 minutes ago, CMJ said:

Well, for some folks I guess it HAS always been an issue. They're now capitalizing on the moment to take care of something they have disliked for a long time.

I'm not trying to argue, just understand, but if it has always been an issue, why attend the school? Speak with no attendance, no support. That speaks volumes. Attending a school for free, then deciding there are things you dont like seems hypocritical.

Imagine all the great athletes that have attended these schools, that they no longer agree with, went to hbc schools....that would send a message

BillySee58 · June 13, 2020

1 hour ago, THOR said:

if students don't like it, don't attend the school. just like the clemson stuff going on. students were ok to take the scholarships and notoreity to get into the pros, didn't have a problem then, why now? maybe this is the white guy in me, but if something offends me, it has always offended me. i don't understand waking up one day and thinking that something that i have been totally okay with for years is suddenly offensive.

My guess is that on recruiting visits prospective Texas student athletes are not told the story of how the fight song was crafted by students in minstrel shows donning blackface. And, like at Clemson and other schools, the racist aspects of history are hidden. So these guys learn this stuff later on, often after graduating or as a result of some major uproar bringing attention.

And, something many people on this board should be able to relate to, these guys love their university as it becomes one of their strongest associations in their life. So, rather than just leave and drop all the relationships and work they have invested the majority of their time on, these guys would rather work to make change they feel is for the better rather than leave because of decisions people made many decades ago.

I have a question for anyone who says “if you don’t like ‘X thing about this group’ then why don’t you leave?”

For you folks who use this logic, have you guys left every group/team/school/Church/company/etc. in your life that had something you disagreed with or didn’t align with your morals on? If so, did you leave before trying to work to resolve this first?

Edited June 13, 2020 by BillySee58

Rudy · June 13, 2020

How about we just remove t.u. as a whole? Problem solved.

UNTLifer · June 14, 2020

While we are changing things, I would like Mother F’ing removed from our fight song.

aztecskin · June 14, 2020

Mike Finger of the SAEN with a great column

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/columnists/mike_finger/article/Mike-Finger-With-overdue-audacity-UT-players-15338551.php

BillySee58 · June 14, 2020

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

While we are changing things, I would like Mother F’ing removed from our fight song.

Wait, what?

Ohhhhh. Are you referring to the part of our fight song where it goes

“U

N

T

Super Awesome

Eagles!”

wardly · June 14, 2020

11 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

So let me get this straight, some of the lyrics to Texas’ fight song is offensive to some/many people. Yet rap music, which to me has poisoned many of our youth for many, many years, depicting rape, death, sex, sexual body connotations, killings, etc., is OK??

Got it.

So while I am not a fan of rap music, I grew up in the 50's when Rock and Roll was considered the devil's music and was "poisoning our youth." To me the only change has been the lyrics. If you don't like it, don't listen to it .