NEW LIBERTY UNIVERSITY FACILITIES

[Quoner]

6 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Thanks for regaling us with more of your useless banter.  If it wasn't for this thread, you'd be downright silent.

But if a tree falls in the forest....does it get 0 replies?

 

 

 

[97and03]

13 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

 I just misquoted a number from a news story and yet still got it more overall accurate than you did.

 

Edit:  In fact, I was correct after all.  I knew I had seen 1500 somewhere...from the original Washington Examiner article I linked to:

...”While some other schools locked the doors to dorms after spring break and as the pandemic spread, Falwell said he let 1,500 students return to dorms under strict rules of social distancing. Most returned because they had elderly parents at home they wanted to keep safe, or they didn’t have internet, or they were international students’...

 

Rick

Wait I thought you said social distancing was not proven effective to prevent COViD. 
 

[FirefightnRick]

8 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Wait I thought you said social distancing was not proven effective to prevent COViD. 
 

It’s not.  Doesn’t mean people won’t try it.

 

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, Quoner said:

Someone mentioned the potential home of a presidential library and you went all in on politics. The word Trump on its own is not a green light to post whatever headline you saw Laura Ingraham share on twitter. 

 I guess I better pay better attention to yours and willie’s sensitivities from now on.

 

Rick

[97and03]

8 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

It’s not.  Doesn’t mean people won’t try it.

 

Rick

That is a lie. 

[FirefightnRick]

28 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

That is a lie. 

Prove it.

 

Rick

[97and03]

9 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Prove it.

 

Rick

You have proven yourself to either be lying or willfully ignorant repeatedly in these threads. 
Staying away from infected people is basically only way to keep from getting it currently.  That and covering your mouth and nose to prevent exhaled droplets from getting into the air. This is basic stuff here and not really up for debate. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/social-distancing.html

COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact (within about 6 feet) for a prolonged period. Spread happens when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks, and droplets from their mouth or nose are launched into the air and land in the mouths or noses of people nearby. The droplets can also be inhaled into the lungs. Recent studies indicate that people who are infected but do not have symptoms likely also play a role in the spread of COVID-19.
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-social-distancing-uk-cases-how-long-schools-public-transport-close-a9394916.html
According to Public Health England, the coronavirus can be spread when people with it have close, sustained contact with others who are not infected.

This typically means spending more than 15 minutes within two metres of an infected person, such as talking to someone for instance.

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-transmission-overview
Experts believe the virus that causes COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person. There are several ways this can happen:

• Droplets. When an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks, droplets with the virus fly into the air from their nose or mouth. Anyone who is within 6 feet of that person can breathe those droplets into their lungs.

 

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6493/860
Modeling studies (26) and experience from the Wuhan outbreak (2) indicate that critical care capacities even in high-income countries can be exceeded many times over if distancing measures are not implemented quickly or strongly enough.

 

https://www.uchealth.com/en/media-room/covid-19/the-value-of-social-distancing 

“It’s all about minimizing the spread of a highly contagious virus,” said Dr. Fichtenbaum. “Social distancing is the concept of keeping away from people, and this typically means limiting contact with any other person. By slowing down the spread of COVID-19, we allow healthcare systems a chance to more readily care for patients.”

COVID-19 is a new virus, so healthcare experts continue to learn how it spreads. Currently, it is understood that the virus mainly spreads from person to person through respiratory droplets produced by an infected person who coughs or sneezes. 

“If you have a pandemic, one strategy is to keep people away from each other so that the infection cannot be passed so easily from one person to another,” said Dr. Fichtenbaum. “Contagious diseases that are passed between persons usually are transmitted more easily when people are in close contact.”

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-social-distancing-and-self-quarantine

Lisa Maragakis, M.D., M.P.H. , senior director of infection prevention at Johns Hopkins, helps clarify these concepts so you can understand better why they’re being recommended...

Social distancing is deliberately increasing the physical space between people to avoid spreading illness. Staying at least six feet away from other people lessens your chances of catching COVID-19. Wear a cloth face covering where social distancing can’t be practiced, especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.

The coronavirus pandemic is making everyone aware of handwashing and protecting others from coughs and sneezes. Along with those essential steps, practices such as social and physical distancing, and self-quarantine and isolation when appropriate can slow the rate of infection in a city, town or community.

The pandemic can seem overwhelming, but in truth, every person can help slow down the spread of COVID-19. 

[aztecskin]

On 5/26/2020 at 1:03 PM, El Paso Eagle said:

There has been a lot of negative talk regarding Liberty. I believe one thing that worries a lot of schools is their access to money -

https://footballscoop.com/news/video-hugh-freeze-takes-you-on-a-tour-of-libertys-new-football-center/

https://www.aseaofred.com/video-photo-liberty-arena/

They are investing

 

The money thing is not what worries anyone the most. It's the controversial politics. Not even being a religious university -- there are plenty of those -- but the controversies and the president of the university firing off HSOs. Smastresk and Baker would be asked to comment about scandals here and there. That's not a headache anyone wants. 

Stuff like this https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/09/jerry-falwell-liberty-university-loans-227914 is dealt with by Falwell and co themselves. The teams that schedule them get a little flack but it ends fairly quickly. Going into business with them? That's another thing entirely. 

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, 97and03 said:

You have proven yourself to either be lying or willfully ignorant repeatedly in these threads. 
Staying away from infected people is basically only way to keep from getting it currently.  That and covering your mouth and nose to prevent exhaled droplets from getting into the air. This is basic stuff here and not really up for debate. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/social-distancing.html

COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact (within about 6 feet) for a prolonged period. Spread happens when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks, and droplets from their mouth or nose are launched into the air and land in the mouths or noses of people nearby. The droplets can also be inhaled into the lungs. Recent studies indicate that people who are infected but do not have symptoms likely also play a role in the spread of COVID-19.
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-social-distancing-uk-cases-how-long-schools-public-transport-close-a9394916.html
According to Public Health England, the coronavirus can be spread when people with it have close, sustained contact with others who are not infected.

This typically means spending more than 15 minutes within two metres of an infected person, such as talking to someone for instance.

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-transmission-overview
Experts believe the virus that causes COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person. There are several ways this can happen:

• Droplets. When an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks, droplets with the virus fly into the air from their nose or mouth. Anyone who is within 6 feet of that person can breathe those droplets into their lungs.

 

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6493/860
Modeling studies (26) and experience from the Wuhan outbreak (2) indicate that critical care capacities even in high-income countries can be exceeded many times over if distancing measures are not implemented quickly or strongly enough.

 

https://www.uchealth.com/en/media-room/covid-19/the-value-of-social-distancing 

“It’s all about minimizing the spread of a highly contagious virus,” said Dr. Fichtenbaum. “Social distancing is the concept of keeping away from people, and this typically means limiting contact with any other person. By slowing down the spread of COVID-19, we allow healthcare systems a chance to more readily care for patients.”

COVID-19 is a new virus, so healthcare experts continue to learn how it spreads. Currently, it is understood that the virus mainly spreads from person to person through respiratory droplets produced by an infected person who coughs or sneezes. 

“If you have a pandemic, one strategy is to keep people away from each other so that the infection cannot be passed so easily from one person to another,” said Dr. Fichtenbaum. “Contagious diseases that are passed between persons usually are transmitted more easily when people are in close contact.”

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-social-distancing-and-self-quarantine

Lisa Maragakis, M.D., M.P.H. , senior director of infection prevention at Johns Hopkins, helps clarify these concepts so you can understand better why they’re being recommended...

Social distancing is deliberately increasing the physical space between people to avoid spreading illness. Staying at least six feet away from other people lessens your chances of catching COVID-19. Wear a cloth face covering where social distancing can’t be practiced, especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.

The coronavirus pandemic is making everyone aware of handwashing and protecting others from coughs and sneezes. Along with those essential steps, practices such as social and physical distancing, and self-quarantine and isolation when appropriate can slow the rate of infection in a city, town or community.

The pandemic can seem overwhelming, but in truth, every person can help slow down the spread of COVID-19. 

“Experts believe,”

“Covid-19 spreads mainly”

”Within about 6 feet”

These are all guidelines, not proof.. And despite all the guidelines for 3 plus months the spread continued, not showing to slow down until warmer weather and herd immunity set in. 

 

Rick

 

[greenminer]

So happy to be reminded of why I took a week+ off.  BS political upheaval, "gotcha" language that doesn't really get anyone, and Lifer trying to police the board.

Love you.  See you again in a month.

GMG

[El Paso Eagle]

3 hours ago, aztecskin said:

The money thing is not what worries anyone the most. It's the controversial politics. Not even being a religious university -- there are plenty of those -- but the controversies and the president of the university firing off HSOs. Smastresk and Baker would be asked to comment about scandals here and there. That's not a headache anyone wants. 

Stuff like this https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/09/jerry-falwell-liberty-university-loans-227914 is dealt with by Falwell and co themselves. The teams that schedule them get a little flack but it ends fairly quickly. Going into business with them? That's another thing entirely. 

Valid points. A lot of schools have baggage. Should Baylor have been kicked out of the Big 12? The issue I have is we have got to the point where there is a wide open range of what is OK and what is not. Assault, rape and drug scandals no longer (as sad as it sounds) seem not to matter to many fans and recruits. If colleges are not providing educations, not so big of a deal as long as there is success on the field/court. We have grown very tolerant to many issues, except it seems when the issues deal with religion.

[southsideguy]

8 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Valid points. A lot of schools have baggage. Should Baylor have been kicked out of the Big 12? The issue I have is we have got to the point where there is a wide open range of what is OK and what is not. Assault, rape and drug scandals no longer (as sad as it sounds) seem not to matter to many fans and recruits. If colleges are not providing educations, not so big of a deal as long as there is success on the field/court. We have grown very tolerant to many issues, except it seems when the issues deal with religion.

don't forget Coach Bliss in the list of things that Baylor has done.

[El Paso Eagle]

10 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

don't forget Coach Bliss in the list of things that Baylor has done.

Between Baylor and SMU I can understand why people have concerns with private Christian schools. They all seem to have access to a lot of $$ and don't always seem to be help accountable. 

 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

8 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

“Experts believe,”

“Covid-19 spreads mainly”

”Within about 6 feet”

These are all guidelines, not proof.. And despite all the guidelines for 3 plus months the spread continued, not showing to slow down until warmer weather and herd immunity set in. 

 

Rick

 

There is no herd immunity going on. Your math is a joke.  Your understanding of statistics is astounding.  Your disbelief in 'experts' is tiring and willingness to spread it is troubling. It's crazy that you can't use google to search for medical journals or studies... instead rely on your awesome gut instinct to spread misinformation. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.08.982637v1.abstract
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/alr.22577
https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiaa189/5820886
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/risa.13500
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2009324
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763852
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6490/489
https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/early/2020/04/27/13993003.01260-2020

..
https://medium.com/better-humans/whats-the-evidence-on-face-masks-5f3c27a18cc

..

I could post links to studies all day long. It wouldn't matter to you. You don't respect the science, studies, math of the brains behind it all. You think everything is a big ass conspiracy. 

It's akin to me saying oxygen doesn't help spread fires ... and telling you to prove me wrong

You think the heat is slowing the spread and NOT the crazy amount social distancing? That is comical. I guess it isn't warm enough in NV, AZ, CA, MS, AL, GA, AR, NC, SC, TN, KS, WV, CO, UT - yet. If only early summer would play along. 

You are willfully ignorant. It is scary. You show no signs of ever admitting not being the utmost expert, or ever trusting 'experts' or just being decently nice about stuff that matter to people you disagree with.  I wish I would ignore you - but you spread so many untruths - I can't bring myself to do it. 

Facts are not opinions and your opinions are not facts. 

But again - what does this have to do with facilities? Nothing. 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by SteaminWillieBeamin
..

[El Paso Eagle]

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

There is no herd immunity going on. Your math is a joke.  Your understanding of statistics is astounding.  Your disbelief in 'experts' is tiring and willingness to spread it is troubling. It's crazy that you can't use google to search for medical journals or studies... instead rely on your awesome gut instinct to spread misinformation. 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.08.982637v1.abstract
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/alr.22577
https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiaa189/5820886
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/risa.13500
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2009324
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763852
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6490/489
 

I could post links to studies all day long. It wouldn't matter to you. 

It's akin to me saying oxygen doesn't help spread fires ... and telling you to prove me wrong

You think the heat is slowing the spread and NOT the crazy amount social distancing? That is comical. 

You are willfully ignorant. It is scary. You show no signs of ever admitting not being the utmost expert, or ever trusting 'experts' or just being decently nice about stuff that matter to people you disagree with.  I wish I would ignore you - but you spread so many untruths - I can't bring myself to do it. 

Facts are not opinions and your opinions are not facts. 

But again - what does this have to do with facilities? Nothing. 


 

 

 

I think it’s hilarious how you can’t argue without the virtue moralizing and name calling.  You’ve been doing it since you first showed up with anyone you disagree with.  Why your allowed to get away with it here is beyond me, ....but sticks & stones.  

And facilities is what this thread is about....as in outdoor football stadiums in the freaking wind & heat...., not in laboratory settings with intentionally created results.

 So in looking at your non-outdoor football stadium settings of FACTS.....I’ll pick just one.  Let me pick.......this one.

”Airborne or Droplet Precautions for Health Workers Treating Coronavirus Disease 2019

”Given the presence of SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in both the lower and upper respiratory tract as well as the persistence of the virus in the air 3 hours after aerosolization in laboratory settings, airborne transmission is possible......”

..”there is no agreement on the definition of “droplet” route of transmission.”....
 

Conclusions

This review reveals the limited scientific data to inform spatial separation guidelines and a growing body of evidence that droplet precautions are not appropriate for SARS-CoV-2. Hence, future work on carefully documenting and studying the mechanisms shaping transmission distances are warranted, particularly with experiments over a large number of subjects and a variety of conditions, to update current spatial separation guidelines and the current paradigm of droplet and airborne respiratory transmission routes”.....

 

 

More possibilities, more guesstimates, more suggestions and guidelines for us to maybe follow, or maybe research more of.........especially if we football fans in a stadium are now to behave like health workers treating sick people indoors? 

 

 

RICK 
 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by FirefightnRick

[97and03]

10 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

“Experts believe,”

“Covid-19 spreads mainly”

”Within about 6 feet”

These are all guidelines, not proof.. And despite all the guidelines for 3 plus months the spread continued, not showing to slow down until warmer weather and herd immunity set in. 

 

Rick

 

Literally that is why people dedicate their lives to the study of something - to become experts so that they can lead in their fields. The reason this was originally referred to as the “novel coronovirus” until it was named was because it was new. So that means they did not fully understand it and have been improving their understanding of it along the way, hence guidelines and recommendations.

But how were those guidelines developed? Through using what knowledge we already have about disease transmission and viruses. Did you take a high school science class? Because that should have taught you enough to get that when there is an illness you try to isolate the ill from the healthy. You mom taught you as a small child to cover your mouth when you sneeze or cough. That wasn’t simply manners, it was good public health practice. So yes there is plenty of proof these measures are effective. 
 

What is not proven is that outdoor temperature has anything to do with slowing the spread. It hit warm countries and those in the Southern Hemisphere like NZ and Australia. New Zealand has zero new cases for six days. They chose to go on strict lockdown and physical distancing as their strategy and it worked. 
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31097-7/fulltext
 

Also there is no herd immunity yet. The Sweden model that people like to cite didn’t lead to sufficient herd immunity. A recent study showed about 7.3 percent of those in Stockholm had antibodies and models say it could be as high as 20 percent - but herd immunity requires in excess of 60-70 percent. And they ended with a high death rate. 
 

Look if you want full peer reviewed scientific proof of everything to know about this virus, you are going to be waiting a long time. 

Or you could just use common sense and the available information.  If you don’t think sitting shoulder to shoulder with someone as you both exhale heavily (cheering, yelling) can transmit a disease then there really is no convincing you. 

[Arkstfan]

70,000 or so online students will pay for a lot of stuff.

Liberty learned what Memphis and FedEx's Fred Smith learned. University presidents don't look favorably on schools trying to buy their way into association. It looks like taking a bribe and isn't well received.

University presidents have to make the call on conference affiliation and who gets to be an equity partner. They have to balance the wants/needs of students, faculty, staff, alumni, the board, and if public, the government.

As a general rule, university CEO's don't go around seeking trouble and being in partnership with an institution that requires all faculty to affirm that they believe in young earth creationism and refuses to grant tenure (a strongly held principled decision they backed off of to get the law school accredited, then the principle wasn't so strongly held). Their policy toward gay students is the most severe in FBS without question now that BYU has changed it's code of conduct. Hiring a discredited AD and football coach doesn't help perception either.

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Arkstfan

[Hunter Green]

On 5/27/2020 at 11:59 AM, Quoner said:

I enjoyed googling who that was. If you've ever seen the official twitter of the liberty fireman before he got called out of it, it's a mess of RTs and fandom of her and her ilk. Glad you could participate here, though. This thread was missing your trademark brand of non-substantive post count meter running horseshit. You'd been quieter, so were worried you were somehow learning self-awareness and the value of not commenting in every thread. 

I mean, if anyone was going to appreciate keeping the board on topic, I figured it would be the guy who whines about it constantly, but I guess you've sold out?

I've never heard such bullshit. Dude, you are way too full of yourself.

[FirefightnRick]

3 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Literally that is why people dedicate their lives to the study of something - to become experts

Or you could just use common sense...

 

I’m thinking the so called Experts could use more common sense.

Like the Experts who scared the hell out of everyone with the 2 1/2 million predicted dead and got  nearly every prediction wrong since then?

Experts that said “there’s no clear evidence of human to human transmission of Covid-19”?

Experts who told us we needed to shut schools down despite the near zero risk to kids?

Experts that screamed we don’t have enough ppe & ventilators...never mind, we’re good?

Experts that said the antibodies don’t protect against reinfection, then said they do?

Experts that said you can’t be in groups larger than 4, 6, 8 or 10.  Can’t skateboard, can’t ride a bike, can’t jog, cant buy paint, can’t be in the ocean or on a lake, pray in your car in a parking lot with 20 other cars or be on dry sand.  But you can be in the wet sand and purchase bread and boards inside enclosures with a 1,000 other people buying bread and boards and state with a straight face that these decisions were all based on science by the Experts?

Experts that can’t seem to define what social distancing is,...is it 6 feet, 18 feet, the next zip code?

Experts that ignored over a 100 years of experience that the sun & fresh air helps defend against viruses.

Experts that claimed surgical masks and eye protection are mandatory, then just surgical masks, then N95 masks, then homemade masks, then bandannas?  

Experts that said the goal was to flatten the curve, then changed it to till there’s a vaccine?

Experts that said masks work then said masks don’t work?

Experts that said we need to stay locked down till there’s a vaccine, then said no we can’t wait till there’s  a vaccine?

Experts that predicted every state and local entity that didn’t shut down early, or opened too soon was absolutely inviting waves of death,..Liberty for not shutting down, Florida Spring Breakers, Georgia, South Dakota,....run-for-the-hills type of contagion death was headed their way,...didn’t happen.

Experts that said the virus can be picked up from inanimate objects, hey guess what, now it can’t?  

Experts that forced the sick into nursing homes, now admit that was a tragically stupid thing to do?

Experts that said the drug HCQ works,...then no it doesn’t and also....it’s dangerous and can lead to death just as long as you can ignore the fact that we are still suggesting it to be taken for those traveling abroad and that it’s even safe for young children and pregnant & nursing mothers?

Or the Expert who said “There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust”?

I mean...are you kidding me?  
 

The Experts have been so all over the place on this thing,.....back & forth, back & forth like Borg vs McEnroe so bad it’s given us whiplash. After everything we’ve seen and heard that’s been wrong or inaccurate why would anyone take what the Experts say at full value without a skeptical eye?

.  

 

Rick

Edited May 29, 2020 by FirefightnRick

[97and03]

[wardly]

Check out the president of Liberty latest racist rant. He will be lucky to have an African American on campus in the fall.

[UNTLifer]

Oops.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html

[UNTLifer]

On 5/28/2020 at 12:26 PM, greenminer said:

and Lifer trying to police the board.

Don't worry.  I have been defunded.  😎

[DeepGreen]

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Don't worry.  I have been defunded.  😎

Does that mean a “free for all” for the rest of us commoners?