Oregon Gov cancels sportz thru Sept

97and03 · May 13, 2020

5 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Nothing wrong with evaluating something dangerous but Fauci’s evaluations are being used to make critical decisions for a nation based on factors that affect a tiny area(New York/New Jersey), and he’s been very wrong many times. He should be dismissed.

Rick

Again, I will call you when I need your specific set of skills. Determining heath policy is not in your wheelhouse.

UNTLifer · May 13, 2020

So, what benchmark should be used to determine when it is safe to open up the economy and lift the quarantine?

The hospital my company is affiliated with, and most hospitals nationwide, were informed of the outbreak and led to believe they would be overrun like NYC. They applied the NYC model to the entire country. To date, our hospital has had a total of about nine Covid-19 patients and the county just reached 100 positive cases. That is .5% of the counties population. A "one-size fits all" model is not effective. People have to take personal responsibility and make proper decisions.

Edited May 14, 2020 by UNTLifer

CMJ · May 13, 2020

They applied the NYC model so hospitals in the rest of the country wouldn't be overrun.

UNTLifer · May 13, 2020

Just now, CMJ said:

They applied the NYC model so hospitals in the rest of the country wouldn't be overrun.

And they sat empty and now face financial ruin.

RiseUNT · May 13, 2020

I Dont Ron Burgundy GIF

CMJ · May 13, 2020

10 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

And they sat empty and now face financial ruin.

Practically every nation in the world also has.

UNTLifer · May 13, 2020

1 minute ago, CMJ said:

Practically every nation in the world also has.

Exactly why it was a poor model.

What is the benchmark you would like utilized to determine when everything is opened back up?

CMJ · May 13, 2020

10 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Exactly why it was a poor model.

What is the benchmark you would like utilized to determine when everything is opened back up?

Everything opened up? We're way far from that.

I'd say we need to see how some of these first measures have played out by early to mid June and take it from there. If there is a serious increase in deaths then we dial it back some. If deaths are basically the same we leave the measures as they are now, and if deaths have decreased we open up a few more things. And that's the way it'll have to be for some time. About once a month take the measure of how it looks.

We're still way early in this whole process.

FirefightnRick · May 13, 2020

51 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Again, I will call you when I need your specific set of skills. Determining heath policy is not in your wheelhouse.

Same here.

Wag Tag · May 13, 2020

35 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

So, what benchmark should be used to determine when it is safe to open up the economy and lift the quarantine?

The hospital my company is affiliated with, and most hospitals nationwide, we informed of the outbreak and led to believe they would be overrun like NYC. They applied the NYC model to the entire country. To date, our hospital has had a total of about nine Covid-19 patients and the county just reached 100 positive cases. That is .5% of the counties population. A "one-size fits all" model is not effective. People have to take personal responsibility and make proper decisions.

Great point, the decisions should be made by state and local officials. One size doesn’t fit all!! GMG

greenminer · May 13, 2020

20 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Exactly why it was a poor model.

What is the benchmark you would like utilized to determine when everything is opened back up?

So because it was a poor model, we shouldn't use a model? or we should use a politicians model? What road are we supposed to take here?

FirefightnRick · May 13, 2020

Dr. Jeffrey Barke, Riverside County CA-“I represent thousands of doctors nation wide whose voices are being silenced”.

“We cannot reach herd immunity if the herd is kept in quarantine.”...

Better watch this before YouTube removes it like it’s done so many others.

Rick

Edited May 13, 2020 by FirefightnRick

TheColonyEagle · May 13, 2020

1 minute ago, greenminer said:

So because it was a poor model, we shouldn't use a model?

Umm.....yes

UNTLifer · May 13, 2020

3 hours ago, greenminer said:

So because it was a poor model, we shouldn't use a model? or we should use a politicians model? What road are we supposed to take here?

1. I never said we shouldn't use a model, but equating everyone to NYC was wrong and is wrong for many reasons. Second, models always work out a worst case scenario and are only as good as the information provided. The reporting of Covid-19 deaths has been far from accurate across the board.

2. I am just curious what benchmark would make people comfortable. A vaccine? Why, we don't have a vaccine for a number of illnesses. A decrease in deaths? Decrease to what? Currently we have realized about a .05% death rate and even lower in some communities. Relying on the government to support us through this is conditioning people and that is not a good thing.

3 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

Great point, the decisions should be made by state and local officials. One size doesn’t fit all!! GMG

Exactly my point. One size doesn't fit all. Politicizing the "pandemic" is also ridiculous and the media fanning the flames doesn't help. Honest reporting and civil discussions would go a long way.

CMJ · May 13, 2020

17 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

1. I never said we shouldn't use a model, but equating everyone to NYC was wrong and is wrong for many reasons. Second, models always work out a worst case scenario and are only as good as the information provided. The reporting of Covid-19 deaths has been far from accurate across the board.

2. I am just curious what benchmark would make people comfortable. A vaccine? Why, we don't have a vaccine for a number of illnesses. A decrease in deaths? Decrease to what? Currently we have realized about a .05% death rate and even lower in some communities. Relying on the government to support us through this is conditioning people and that is not a good thing.

Exactly my point. One size doesn't fit all. Politicizing the "pandemic" is also ridiculous and the media fanning the flames doesn't help. Honest reporting and civil discussions would go a long way.

We don't know what the death rate is, so I'm not sure how you came up with 0.05%. The current known death rate is 5.9%

Obviously it's way lower than that, but we aren't sure what the number is.

Edited May 13, 2020 by CMJ

El Paso Eagle · May 13, 2020

8 hours ago, C Rod said:

Exactly. Well said.

I’m going to trust the scientists, doctors, and experts during this pandemic before I ever trust the politicians.

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greenminer · May 14, 2020

4 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

1. I never said we shouldn't use a model, but equating everyone to NYC was wrong and is wrong for many reasons. Second, models always work out a worst case scenario and are only as good as the information provided. The reporting of Covid-19 deaths has been far from accurate across the board.

2. I am just curious what benchmark would make people comfortable. A vaccine? Why, we don't have a vaccine for a number of illnesses. A decrease in deaths? Decrease to what? Currently we have realized about a .05% death rate and even lower in some communities. Relying on the government to support us through this is conditioning people and that is not a good thing.

Exactly my point. One size doesn't fit all. Politicizing the "pandemic" is also ridiculous and the media fanning the flames doesn't help. Honest reporting and civil discussions would go a long way.

I agree with everything in #1. My responses have been geared more towards posts saying we should just abandon the scientists altogether, and rely only on politicians. The scientists are working with very fluid data, in a situation we have handled poorly. They are continuously trying to be as accurate as they can in the interest of public health. Shame on everyone else for putting them in political situations.

What would make me feel more comfortable? Being able to test anyone who wants to be, and trace as needed. Vaccine: absolutely zero chance of this being a factor. The number being tossed around is 14-16 months. My doctor laughed at that. Some viruses are still around 20+ years after being identified, because we still haven't figured them out. The 14 month figure is the timetable on testing/approving only after you establish a clear formula/path. I haven't read anything (yet) about us getting closer. (EDIT: Just saw this)

Edited May 14, 2020 by greenminer

UNTLifer · May 14, 2020

19 hours ago, CMJ said:

We don't know what the death rate is, so I'm not sure how you came up with 0.05%. The current known death rate is 5.9%

Obviously it's way lower than that, but we aren't sure what the number is.

Thanks for catching that. The infection rate is .05% of the population, not the death rate.

TheColonyEagle · May 15, 2020

This seems to be a fairly balanced article. It makes points made by some that admit, yes, Sweden's culture is different...but locking down for much longer is simply not sustainable. Ask ourselves: how many people do we know that have actually gotten the virus. Now ask how many people we know whose jobs have gone away. I would say the latter is probably 10 fold....

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds

As scientists learn more about the virus and authorities develop new and better ways to work around the contagion—altering the parameters for calculating herd immunity to account for behavioral changes, for instance—the justification for general lockdowns grows weaker and weaker. Even in places like the United States and the United Kingdom, where the pool of at-risk people is much larger, the cost of protecting these people is much lower than forcing everyone to stay home. Managing the path to herd immunity means, above all, protecting the vulnerable. Sweden learned that the hard way, but the situation there is now under control.

Edited May 15, 2020 by TheColonyEagle

FirefightnRick · May 15, 2020

On 5/13/2020 at 12:54 PM, FirefightnRick said:

Dr. Jeffrey Barke, Riverside County CA-“I represent thousands of doctors nation wide whose voices are being silenced”.

“We cannot reach herd immunity if the herd is kept in quarantine.”...

Better watch this before YouTube removes it like it’s done so many others.

Rick

And there it is, the control freaks doing what they do best, controlling.

Rick

97and03 · May 15, 2020

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

And there it is, the control freaks doing what they do best, controlling.

Rick

Removing dangerous or misleading content? Yes. But don’t worry there is still tons of content for you out there. Can’t delete all the 5g conspiracies, anti-vax, flat earth, and other complete nonsense on social media. They are focusing on this now because it is particularly dangerous.

Just as so many are willing to sacrifice the elderly and compromised to reach herd immunity (bc without a vaccine that is how you get there since we still are not testing adequately), I would be willing to sacrifice those that refuse to follow scientific guidance - especially the protesters. Unfortunately viruses don’t discriminate that way or follow politics. Those that refuse lockdown definitely help with herd immunity but simultaneously raise the hospitalization and death rates.

The irony of all this is how much of the division is fed by the very foreign actors (Russia and China) that so many claim to want to oppose. There is a reason that much of the anti-CDC and anti-Fauci content gets posted while Americans are asleep and Moscow is wide awake.

TheColonyEagle · May 15, 2020

I don’t understand how some can’t see that a country with 15% unemployment headed toward 25% and greater unemployment (if we don’t open up soon) is sacrificing everyone as well. Everyone will be impacted by the economic ruin of our country. No one is immune to that. There will be more health problems come out of the reaction to this virus than this virus itself. You can’t deny that.

FirefightnRick · May 15, 2020

2 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Removing dangerous or misleading content? Yes.

...”FOLLOW THE SCIENCE!....NO, NOT YOUR SCIENCE,...MY SCIENCE, AND REMEMBER, MY SCIENCE IS SETTLED!”....

Rick

greenminer · May 15, 2020

33 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

...”FOLLOW THE SCIENCE!....NO, NOT YOUR SCIENCE,...MY SCIENCE, AND REMEMBER, MY SCIENCE IS SETTLED!”....

Rick

Family physician vs. epidemiology, so....

A scientist who likens this to a season flu. I roll my eyes at that, but FINE! I will revisit the numbers again to see how they compare.

I don't think this was enough to be pulled down, though.