Has the Corona Virus infected anyone you know?

Quoner · May 6, 2020

20 minutes ago, keith said:

If I or a loved one was gasping for air and was told, we've tried everything, but there is one more option, but there's a problem. Problem, what problem? Well, there hasn't been a peer-reviewed, double-blind study with COVID-19 patients on their death bed and.... And what? Well, Trump said something about this treatment in a news conference and Dr. Fauci isn't all that excited about it. F that. Trump isn't my doctor, Fauci isn't my doctor, the Surgeon General isn't my doctor, etc., let's give it a try.

Two different arguments seem to have broken out. This is a reasonable point and one that I think everyone agrees with.

@El Paso Eagle also made a great point about how we typically aren't in the weeds on medical trials or have any real expertise in this area. The tiny barrage of small anecdotes being conclusive followed by "this definitely works always and we need more" is what is causing disagreement. A couple of folks speaking in absolutes around main ideas like HCQ fixes this and overall minimization of the whole situation is what is generating the passionate responses.

Also, would be interesting to see the original question of the thread covering if people have actually had experiences with family or friends getting this illness. It's a lot easier to argue something that isn't real to you or only feels like an economic burden if you're still sheltered from it entirely.

El Paso Eagle · May 6, 2020

6 minutes ago, Quoner said:

Two different arguments seem to have broken out. This is a reasonable point and one that I think everyone agrees with.

@El Paso Eagle also made a great point about how we typically aren't in the weeds on medical trials or have any real expertise in this area. The tiny barrage of small anecdotes being conclusive followed by "this definitely works always and we need more" is what is causing disagreement. A couple of folks speaking in absolutes around main ideas like HCQ fixes this and overall minimization of the whole situation is what is generating the passionate responses.

Also, would be interesting to see the original question of the thread covering if people have actually had experiences with family or friends getting this illness. It's a lot easier to argue something that isn't real to you or only feels like an economic burden if you're still sheltered from it entirely.

Thankfully, Myself or no one in my family and contracted the virus. I have had my hours reduced at work.

Edited May 6, 2020 by El Paso Eagle

Coffee and TV · May 6, 2020

9 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Big Pharma can’t make big money if there’s a cheap, readily available generic standing in its way.

Rick

Great argument for nationalizing them.

El Paso Eagle · May 6, 2020

1 hour ago, Coffee and TV said:

Great argument for nationalizing them.

If they were nationalized, do you think there would be the same incentive for searching for cures (I know evil capitalist). I understand where for periods of time it might be necessary (for example during the time of War), but honestly, I am not a fan of the Government controlling industries. I think most would agree that the Government if full of waste, special projects and outright fraud. Not saying it doesn't happen in private industry, but for the most part there are much better checks and balances.

If the industry is Nationalized what is the incentive to strive for success and greatness? I believe, and I could be wrong, you would sooner or later end up with an industry loaded with people who are not help accountable for performance or budges. Amtrak comes to mind as one that has not been too good. I also look at for example the way Mexico nationalized the oil industry under Pemex - total cluster F.

Edited May 6, 2020 by El Paso Eagle

keith · May 6, 2020

I believe all medical decisions are unique, personal decisions to be made by the individual assuming they are capable of making those decisions or by a duly designated person who is authorized to make decisions on their behalf. That decision may or may not include the guidance/recommendations of a medical professional. Ultimately, I should have the final say what's put in my body.

25 minutes ago, greenminer said:

The public also once vaulted American Idol to the top of TV's most watched programming, chose McDonalds as their preferred food provider, and appx. 1 in 6 Americans are not sure the Earth is round.

Proceed with caution.

Hahahaha....My thought there was that the individual wasn't incapacitated, unconscious, deemed incapable of making their own decisions or did not have advanced directives. I realize that there are some crazy people in the world that do stupid things which and why I don't want to pay for their lifestyle choices.

Coffee and TV · May 6, 2020

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

If they were nationalized, do you think there would be the same incentive for searching for cures

My dude you graduated from what's now considered a Tier 1 research University. Do you think the geology professors working on a way to detect volcanic eruptions are doing it so they can make bank? Is there some huge bonus for the biologists who are working to keep the grizzly bear or horned frog from becoming extinct? Cuba of all places came up with a treatment that eliminates the transmission of HIV from a mother to her soon to be born infant and they're clearly not dealing with a monetary incentive. The incentive is the social good, the same reason the USPS exists to deliver your mail every day.

El Paso Eagle · May 6, 2020

Given researchers do great work, but the competition to get research grants is very competitive and many, many are funded but private companies. I did not realize that researchers/professors did not care about money. Guess it's only the greedy one who also do private work or the ones who take higher paying jobs at other universities.

Also, to use the USPS as an example of a good reason for anything is, IMHO very misplaced. Not that there are not good people there, but as an organization they are perhaps the case study on inefficiency and how not to do things. If they were not protected and received bailouts they would have been out of business years ago.

Coffee and TV · May 6, 2020

11 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Quote

I did not realize that researchers/professors did not care about money. Guess it's only the greedy one who also do private work or the ones who take higher paying jobs at other universities.

I'm usually a snarky asshole on this board but I was plenty cordial in my reply to you, and your response is to intentionally act obtuse and put words in my mouth.

Quote

Also, to use the USPS as an example of a good reason for anything is, IMHO very misplaced. Not that there are not good people there, but as an organization they are perhaps the case study on inefficiency and how not to do things. If they were not protected and received bailouts they would have been out of business years ago.

It's actually a great example because despite being inefficient at times, they exist to serve the public good. They're not there to make money or pay for themselves, they're there to delivery mail to every American no matter how remote or isolated. They only need a bailout because of a bill passed 12 years ago that makes them fund the pensions of every employee they hire for the next 75 years. Literally no other corporation or government entity does this, the requirement only exists because Republicans are looking for ways to outsource the mail to private companies, who would then charge you an arm and a leg to deliver a package that USPS would do for half the price.

Tell me, when was the last time the military turned a profit, yet they somehow need a budget every year that's 10x's the amount of every other nation's combined.

El Paso Eagle · May 6, 2020

5 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

I'm usually a snarky asshole on this board but I was plenty cordial in my reply to you, and your response is to intentionally act obtuse and put words in my mouth.

It's actually a great example because despite being inefficient at times, they exist to serve the public good. They're not there to make money or pay for themselves, they're there to delivery mail to every American no matter how remote or isolated. They only need a bailout because of a bill passed 12 years ago that makes them fund the pensions of every employee they hire for the next 75 years. Literally no other corporation or government entity does this, the requirement only exists because Republicans are looking for ways to outsource the mail to private companies, who would then charge you an arm and a leg to deliver a package that USPS would do for half the price.

Tell me, when was the last time the military turned a profit, yet they somehow need a budget every year that's 10x's the amount of every other nation's combined.

Not trying to put words anywhere, but we just disagree and that is OK.

When you tall about outsourcing please keep in mind that the USPS service can do many of the same services UPS and FedEx can. Many people choose to pay for the level of service they want. They have the choice and are able to decide. I am not saying the USPS does not have it's valid need, but they are terribly inefficient. I will give them credit that they have gotten better, but in all honestly, do you think if it were not for the pressures of the competition of UPS and FedEx they would have improved?

El Paso Eagle · May 6, 2020

Talk about trying to help and then ....

https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/health-workers-that-volunteered-to-come-to-ny-during-pandemic-have-to-pay-state-income-tax-cuomo

Como stated "We're not in a position to provide any subsidies right now", but he expects them from the Federal Government

For a state that continually screams about how the Trump administration (aka the Federal Government) has no right to tell them how to do things, and that "he's not their President" they sure do want the Federal Government to bail them out. Look, I have no problem helping where needed, but NY is now wanting money for their museums, and their culture centers. The problem with most activities directed by Government (Right and Left) is they go from well intention to how much money can we get to our friends/allies.

keith · May 6, 2020

2 hours ago, Coffee and TV said:

I'm usually a snarky asshole on this board but I was plenty cordial in my reply to you, and your response is to intentionally act obtuse and put words in my mouth.

It's actually a great example because despite being inefficient at times, they exist to serve the public good. They're not there to make money or pay for themselves, they're there to delivery mail to every American no matter how remote or isolated. They only need a bailout because of a bill passed 12 years ago that makes them fund the pensions of every employee they hire for the next 75 years. Literally no other corporation or government entity does this, the requirement only exists because Republicans are looking for ways to outsource the mail to private companies, who would then charge you an arm and a leg to deliver a package that USPS would do for half the price.

Tell me, when was the last time the military turned a profit, yet they somehow need a budget every year that's 10x's the amount of every other nation's combined.

What's a pension? Just kidding. I know what a pension is and if I'm not mistaken, Congress has taken care of themselves quite nicely in this regard.

With respect to the postal service, it's a not-for-profit, self-sustaining independent entity within the Executive branch. It supports itself (or is supposed to) with the revenue it generates from postage. It's a great example of a function of government that made sense when it was established, but has probably out-lived its usefulness (unless you make your living in the bulk mail/mass mailing industry).

The postal service is not supposed to turn a profit and neither is the military. However, the postal service does generate revenue. I don't think it's a horrible thing to ask them to operate at break-even. If they need to raise postage rates to do that, then they should or they should look for ways to cut costs and be competitive. Are rates artificially low? Perhaps, or maybe it's just a bloated, mis-managed function that needs to change with the times.

There are many programs and weapons systems the military would like to do without. Unfortunately, many of these are pet projects of congress or huge subsidies to certain congressional districts. Congress holds the purse-strings. They often force systems on the military it doesn't want.

Wait, I thought this was about COVID-19.

THOR · May 6, 2020

https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1258048133851947009

i don't know how to do a twitter post...but it's an interesting poll taken of differences in opinion

Edited May 6, 2020 by THOR

El Paso Eagle · May 6, 2020

47 minutes ago, keith said:

What's a pension? Just kidding. I know what a pension is and if I'm not mistaken, Congress has taken care of themselves quite nicely in this regard.

With respect to the postal service, it's a not-for-profit, self-sustaining independent entity within the Executive branch. It supports itself (or is supposed to) with the revenue it generates from postage. It's a great example of a function of government that made sense when it was established, but has probably out-lived its usefulness (unless you make your living in the bulk mail/mass mailing industry).

The postal service is not supposed to turn a profit and neither is the military. However, the postal service does generate revenue. I don't think it's a horrible thing to ask them to operate at break-even. If they need to raise postage rates to do that, then they should or they should look for ways to cut costs and be competitive. Are rates artificially low? Perhaps, or maybe it's just a bloated, mis-managed function that needs to change with the times.

There are many programs and weapons systems the military would like to do without. Unfortunately, many of these are pet projects of congress or huge subsidies to certain congressional districts. Congress holds the purse-strings. They often force systems on the military it doesn't want.

Wait, I thought this was about COVID-19.

I believe that should be the rule rather than the exception for almost every government funded agency. One thing that to me is frustrating is when budget times come and you even ask a government agency to reduce the amount of planned future spending everyone on both sides depending on the project yell "cuts". Private sector companies are often forced to make budget cuts. As the person responsible you are told make them happen or we will bring in someone who will.

There should be Independent and well defined programs/audits that truly measure efficiencies and true cost reductions for agencies funded by tax payers. However, call me cynical, if you put career government employees in charge of an audit I have my doubts. I would like to see outside auditors who are not auditing the same places year after year.

Look, both parties add on enormous amounts of special projects that they are allowed to as "part of the game" local voters do not care as long as their district get "theirs." The "swamp" or whatever you choose to call it is so deep that it might never be "fixed." I'm not sure if an outsider would ever be accepted by either party that might try and clean it up but the waste and fraud in Washington is sickening.

FirefightnRick · May 7, 2020

My math may be off but this just seems impossible.

Ten largest cities in the world with a combined 231 million population and their Cov19 related death numbers.

Tokyo: 19

Dhaka: 186

Mumbai: 1783

Cairo: 467

Mexico City: 2704

Delhi: 65

Beijing: 4633(who knows if true or not?)

São Paulo: 8674

Osaka: 577

Shanghai: 4633

=23,741 deaths

New York City, with a population of 8 million has just 3,000 less at 20,597

Edited May 7, 2020 by FirefightnRick

CMJ · May 7, 2020

Sure as hell don't believe Sao Paolo either. I've been reading stuff out of there and it's pretty bad. I only have minimal confidence in most Latin American countries actually.

keith · May 7, 2020

This was on the local news last night. Cuomo shared this data on what groups were being hospitalized (the numbers continue downward overall, so that's good), but 66% of new hospitalizations, I'm not sure about the exact time frame, were individuals who were following stay-at-home directives. He went on to say he found this number "shocking." So, either people are lying or something else is going on and people staying at home are getting infected at a higher rate than every other category combined. New York has been shutdown for about 3 full incubation periods. Why are people staying at home being hospitalized more than others? Is it just a numbers thing? More people staying home than all the others.

Edited May 7, 2020 by keith

LongJim · May 7, 2020

15 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Talk about trying to help and then ....

https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/health-workers-that-volunteered-to-come-to-ny-during-pandemic-have-to-pay-state-income-tax-cuomo

NYC is a strange place.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/samaritans-purse-excluded-from-nyc-for-the-sake-of-inclusion/

LongJim · May 7, 2020

19 hours ago, Quoner said:

@El Paso Eagle

Also, would be interesting to see the original question of the thread covering if people have actually had experiences with family or friends getting this illness. It's a lot easier to argue something that isn't real to you or only feels like an economic burden if you're still sheltered from it entirely.

@QuonerAbout 5 weeks ago I was exposed in close quarters to a co-worker who contracted the illness from his roommate here in Denton. The co-worker ran a fever, and after a couple of days of this, was told to stay home until he was fever-free. His roommate apparently was tested positive and was sick for almost 2 weeks. Both of these guys are mid-20's, (UNT grads) and both have recovered.

FWIW, the co-worker was *not* tested, so I have a feeling that there are a lot of folks who come down with this, and never really do anything about it except typical stay at home, drink fluids and rest stuff. The co-worker apparently felt like he could have come in to work, but after running the fever, called to ask about it, and was told hell no, stay home.

I was "quarantined" at home for 2 weeks simply for being exposed to the co-worker, during which time I didn't notice any symptoms of illness. The co-worker came back after 2 weeks and has apparently had no other issues.

Edited May 7, 2020 by LongJim

Censored by Laurie · May 7, 2020

14 hours ago, THOR said:

https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1258048133851947009

i don't know how to do a twitter post...but it's an interesting poll taken of differences in opinion

well...

you have one group of people who are more community/communally focused...people who recognize that they function within a society and that their actions and decisions extend beyond their person/immediate family. in this situation, they take personal responsibility for helping contain the spread by acting with caution (possibly an abundance), limiting contact and adjusting and sacrificing in their own lives for the sake of the community.

then you have another group of people driven more by personal preservation...people who believe their individual freedoms and liberties are license to prioritize self-interest over that of the collective whole. in this situation, they've assigned personal responsibility to others by insisting only the vulnerable need to adjust their lives.

this mentality certainly extends beyond the current pandemic, but I'd say those numbers make pretty plain the root of the philosophical divide.

UNTLifer · May 7, 2020

1 hour ago, LongJim said:

NYC is a strange place.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/samaritans-purse-excluded-from-nyc-for-the-sake-of-inclusion/

Cuomo couldn't figure out how to get kickbacks from Samaritan's Purse.

LongJim · May 7, 2020

1 hour ago, Censored by Laurie said:

you have one group of people who are more community/communally focused...people who recognize that they function within a society and that their actions and decisions extend beyond their person/immediate family. in this situation, they take personal responsibility for helping contain the spread by acting with caution (possibly an abundance), limiting contact and adjusting and sacrificing in their own lives for the sake of the community.

then you have another group of people driven more by personal preservation...people who believe their individual freedoms and liberties are license to prioritize self-interest over that of the collective whole. in this situation, they've assigned personal responsibility to others by insisting only the vulnerable need to adjust their lives.

this mentality certainly extends beyond the current pandemic, but I'd say those numbers make pretty plain the root of the philosophical divide.

IMO, the issue stems from the great majority of folks being faced with decisions to be made that do not have binary choices, but are nuanced.

The real tantrums occur when people want to apply their own reality/situation to those faced by others, and believe that "their" choice is the "right" choice for everyone.

FirefightnRick · May 7, 2020

3 hours ago, keith said:

This was on the local news last night. Cuomo shared this data on what groups were being hospitalized (the numbers continue downward overall, so that's good), but 66% of new hospitalizations, I'm not sure about the exact time frame, were individuals who were following stay-at-home directives. He went on to say he found this number "shocking." So, either people are lying or something else is going on and people staying at home are getting infected at a higher rate than every other category combined. New York has been shutdown for about 3 full incubation periods. Why are people staying at home being hospitalized more than others? Is it just a numbers thing? More people staying home than all the others.

Not surprising at all.

Rick

FirefightnRick · May 7, 2020

NY subway cars to be disinfected with ultraviolet lamps

https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/495977-ny-subway-cars-to-be-disinfected-with-ultraviolet-lamps

............”The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) will use ultraviolet light to clean the New York City subway system, adding to the daily disinfecting process Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) announced last week.

The MTA will partner with scientists at Columbia University who had previously explored whether the light could be used to kill other diseases being spread through public transportation, the New York Daily News reported Sunday.

Transit officials told the Daily News that UV lamps will be placed inside cars and buses at two MTA rail yards and a single bus depot beginning next week

While research is ongoing into whether the lights kill the coronavirus specifically, it would be “inconceivable to me that it wouldn’t kill this particular virus,” David Brenner, director of Columbia University’s Center for Radiological Research, told the Daily News.“......

Imagine that?

Rick

Quoner · May 7, 2020

38 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Imagine that?

Rick

Wow, you're sitting on a real scoop (UV light kills the virus on surfaces) that no one knew until published research in 2018.... well before Trump "sarcastically" jumbled his own briefing about it? https://news.yahoo.com/ultraviolet-light-can-be-used-against-coronavirus-just-not-in-the-way-trump-imagines-090000567.html

So, we have yet another FFR bombshell that just underlies a misunderstanding of previous news or willful ignorance? Color me shocked.

FirefightnRick · May 7, 2020

1 hour ago, Quoner said:

Wow, you're sitting on a real scoop (UV light kills the virus on surfaces) that no one knew until published research in 2018.... well before Trump "sarcastically" jumbled his own briefing about it? https://news.yahoo.com/ultraviolet-light-can-be-used-against-coronavirus-just-not-in-the-way-trump-imagines-090000567.html

So, we have yet another FFR bombshell that just underlies a misunderstanding of previous news or willful ignorance? Color me shocked.

I couldn’t have possibly been referring back to my position since March 14th that warm weather and UV sunlight would slow things down allowing people to get outside rather than shut themselves inside...which I’ve been questioned on several times since, right?

Or my post on March 28th about Coronavirus and the Sun: a Lesson from the 1918 Influenza Pandemic which was followed by a post by @CMJ about How Mexican American workers handled that 1918 pandemic better due to being in the sun. ,right?

Rick