Has the Corona Virus infected anyone you know?

[CMJ]

1 minute ago, THOR said:

luckily someone in charge shut the states down then when they did.  so what number says we should shut it down?  does a random al queda threat cause us to shutdown?  does a north korean threat shut us down?  not trying to argue, but at what point do we not shut things down because of a threat?  yes, people die...sucks...a friend of mine died last week...sucks...but if we live in fear, how do we live?  we went to war due to lusitania (over 100k died), ww2 and douchebaging hitler (400k+), etc...if we do nothing, and i believe staying home(yes, i know that is something, but not for the people that need work and the economy) is doing nothing for our country, what does that prove? 

 

sorry for the questions and maybe i am just a dense older guy that drinks beer, but damn, we can't just stay home and do nothing.  

We didn't go to war over the Lusitania.  😛  It's one of the major faults in our education system that many people spout that off.  But considering the sinking was two years before we declared war, one can't make that argument.  It did galvanize public sentiment against Germany though that took another two years to solidify.

 

I am not sure at what point I'd say it's the right time to shut down versus let it ride.  My impulse is once they made the move to shut it down it had to be long lasting because you're gonna be hard pressed to get everyone to do this again, so you might as well make it worth it.  Come the fall you're not gonna see the same sort of compliance if they ask us to go in the bunker again.

 

BTW - if we were the only country going through this I could see us opening up now just for the hell of it.  But practically everyone took this course of action -- which says to me it was more or less the most justifiable one.  I saw some economist once put the value of each human life at 9 million bucks (I guess not just from earnings, but from spending on goods and what that does to other people's lives, etc).  So I guess tabulate what this is costing the country and compare that number against a potential 2 million dead Americans and see at what point the numbers more or less hit some kind of equilibrium and I guess that's how many dead people are worth the financial distress.

 

[greenminer]

56 minutes ago, THOR said:

so do you think that for every threat we should shutdown stuff and evacuate? 

the usa has had just over 50k deaths....why jump to 500k?

 

58 minutes ago, THOR said:

they should probably stay home...too many people living on top of each other, but why do we make the rest of the country suffer because of nyc?

and i get i may be in the minority, but we can't live in fear, we can't leave the economy shut down, we can't stay home for 1-2 before a vaccine is available.  i don't know the answer, i know i'm not thinking like most others, but it seems simple to me.  if you don't want to be exposed, stay home.  let those that don't have underlying conditions, are old as shit, are subjective to being negatively affected help the economy.

Right there with you on fear.

"why should we suffer because xyz..." sounds like a blame game.  This is not about it being someone else's fault.  The lesson learned from NYC is that's what happens when you don't do anything about a pandemic and go about letting people do what they want.  
 

Quote

we don't shutdown the country when people die of other issues...why are we doing this now?

I do see evidence that this first wave is plateauing/about to be behind us.  We are, however, approaching 60K faster than projected.  IMO these efforts to lump the current pandemic with other threats need to stop.  I'm not saying we should all shiver in fear, but a pandemic is extremely unique, with very complex variables, and can't be compared to other diseases/death rates already in place.  I honestly don't understand why people are not getting this.
 

  

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, greenminer said:

Personally, I thought this was strange.  But it seemed to fit the shoot-from-hip-and-do-something-big mantra that Trump is wired to.  And it was patriotic, which people love.
 

 

...”‘Covid! Covid!

....Your our man,...

...If you can’t help us,...

....no one can”...

[greenminer]

New revelations from NYC that ventilators are not working, and are possibly hurting.

Apparently, nearly everyone in NYC put on a ventilator did not survive.  I need to read more to believe this.

There is still a ton we do not know about this virus.  We need to give science/health care time to figure it out.  This might mean developing new mechanisms to help people breathe.  Other thought: will health insurance cover me if I get lung/heart complications from COVID19?

[keith]

Random testing in NYC shows that over 20% have tested positive for Covid-19 antibodies.  If that holds for the overall population of 8+ million, that’s  a lot of people that were infected, never sought medical treatment and successfully fended off the virus.  

[greenminer]

9 minutes ago, keith said:

Random testing in NYC shows that over 20% have tested positive for Covid-19 antibodies.  If that holds for the overall population of 8+ million, that’s  a lot of people that were infected, never sought medical treatment and successfully fended off the virus.  

When we talk about this, there really are two different points that need to be clarified

1) True, the virus is not as deadly as the doomsday-ers want to paint it out to be.
2) NYC hospitals were still over run.  In a community under pandemic, prior to obtaining herd immunity, even that small tiny percentage could overrun the local healthcare.

Also, I'll repeat what I said very early in this thread: it is striking how polarizing this virus is.  For most of us, we probably won't feel much at all.  But when it decides to get into your lower resp. system and go full throttle, it really does a number.

Edited April 24, 2020 by greenminer

[greenminer]

Someone help me understand this

[greenminer]

Could be interesting

 

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, keith said:

Random testing in NYC shows that over 20% have tested positive for Covid-19 antibodies.  If that holds for the overall population of 8+ million, that’s  a lot of people that were infected, never sought medical treatment and successfully fended off the virus.  

 

This would be great news and give us hope for a lesser affect when it returns in the winter.

 

Rick

[keith]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

New revelations from NYC that ventilators are not working, and are possibly hurting.

Apparently, nearly everyone in NYC put on a ventilator did not survive.  I need to read more to believe this.

There is still a ton we do not know about this virus.  We need to give science/health care time to figure it out.  This might mean developing new mechanisms to help people breathe.  Other thought: will health insurance cover me if I get lung/heart complications from COVID19?

Gov Cuomo mentioned this during most of his briefings and I hit on it earlier in this thread.  I don’t know if it was truly 100% or some other very high percentage, but it seemed it became more palliative care (easing the process) rather than health care/recovery.  Horrible regardless. 

[ColoradoEagle]

34 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Someone help me understand this

Further reading:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/hospitals-face-a-white-house-blockade-for-coronavirus-ppe.html

Just as a disclaimer, this story is opinionated. However, several governors have complained about having to compete with the federal government for supplies. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by ColoradoEagle

[keith]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Further reading:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/hospitals-face-a-white-house-blockade-for-coronavirus-ppe.html

The federal government is a vast bureaucracy that moves in ways that hardly anyone understands.  There is a certain Senator in Connecticut that has been screaming to nationalize the medical equipment supply-chain and everyone wanted to enact the DPA which gives the Federal Gov’t vast additional powers to jump to the head of the line, seize output, take control of orders, force production, etc.  I have no idea what’s going on here. The law of unintended consequences, perhaps?  The idea that the President himself is doing this is silly.  The policy to place Covid-positive patients in nursing homes in NY was horrible, but I don’t think Cuomo sat at his desk and did it on purpose.  

[meangreendork]

57 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Further reading:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/hospitals-face-a-white-house-blockade-for-coronavirus-ppe.html

Just as a disclaimer, this story is opinionated. However, several governors have complained about having to compete with the federal government for supplies. 

The article is pretty slanted, but I've read similar on other outlets. Either the federal government isn't coordinating effectively and artificially creating a competition, or it's squirreling off supplies and then reselling them. Neither are good news.

Edit:

Stumbled upon this: 

https://www.wlrn.org/post/feds-seized-shipment-one-million-masks-miami-dade-say-officials?utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com#stream/0

Edited April 24, 2020 by meangreendork

[MCMLXXX]

While this debate rages please remember we are still in flu season and I am sure the lockdown has reduced the numbers as well. So far up to 740,000 hospitalizations and up to 62,000 deaths. There is still time to get your vaccine if you have not done so. Last flu season my niece and her son acquired the flu in July.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

Edited April 24, 2020 by MCMLXXX

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, keith said:

The federal government is a vast bureaucracy that moves in ways that hardly anyone understands. 

I secretly hope one of the lessons we all take from this (er, those that need it) is that we shouldn't be relying on the government like we do.  Those idiots politicians are showing us time and time again that they don't know how to spend our money (for the most part).

One of the topics I am constantly thinking about when considering all these incoming developments is consumer debt.  We live under massive, massive debt IMO.  I've read some scary numbers that say most Americans do not have enough emergency cash to weather a $1000 emergency.

Cutting to the chase: if we all were financially responsible and had enough savings to weather 3-6 months without a job's income, we would not have this vast country-wide cry for government assistance.

Edited April 24, 2020 by greenminer

[FirefightnRick]

3 hours ago, keith said:

.  The policy to place Covid-positive patients in nursing homes in NY was horrible, but I don’t think Cuomo sat at his desk and did it on purpose.  

 

This really happened?

 

 

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

14 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

This really happened?

 

NYC Mayor and Health Officials Misled Public About Plans to Move COVID-19 Patients Into Nursing Home, Advocates Say

https://www.propublica.org/article/nyc-mayor-and-health-officials-misled-public-about-plans-to-move-covid-19-patients-into-nursing-home-advocates-say/amp

 

 

Hard to believe.

 

Rick

[Coffee and TV]

I hope one of Trump's aides is showing him that magic school bus episode where they fly inside the sick kid. 

[CMJ]

Looking at some European nations, I do think we've gotten off relatively easy to this point.  If you adjust for population some of those countries are getting absolutely hammered.

On the other hand, if you look at some of the trend lines on death figures, the plateaus downward have taken much longer than the spikes upward.  I know when Italy was around 10K dead, it appeared they'd top out around 20-22K. Instead they're probably gonna pass 26K today, given we're about 5.5 times their population and extra 4 thousand deaths for them would correlate to another 20K plus for us if a similar downward trend exists.

 

And they're still not done yet either.  They may end up hitting 30K or more unless their figures start dropping more than they have.

 

In other words, even though the IHME model is now calling for 67K deaths, I think the floor is much higher than that.  Probably at least 85K.

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by CMJ

[ntmeangreen11]

On 4/21/2020 at 8:25 PM, FirefightnRick said:

Ha...I’m honored to be considered for so much scrutiny.  

I thought you didn’t have time to go through that thread?  I guess so, but you have a different understanding of what “Lost his It” means than I do....LOL!  

As for Trump, he’s been warning us about China since the 90’s.  And he’s tried to restrict travel into the U.S. since year one.  So how hilarious is it that the hypocritical  left now thinks he didn’t do it soon enough.  Not sure what else there is to say about that?

 

Rick

You get caught red handed contradicting yourself, and what do you do? Not acknowledge it and double down on your own hypocrisy. 

How?

 

[ColoradoEagle]

FDA issues warnings on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine after ‘serious poisoning and death’ reported

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/fda-issues-warnings-on-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-after-serious-poisoning-and-death-reported.html

 

Just in case anyone is still consulting Dr. Trump.

[CMJ]

1 minute ago, ColoradoEagle said:

FDA issues warnings on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine after ‘serious poisoning and death’ reported

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/fda-issues-warnings-on-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-after-serious-poisoning-and-death-reported.html

 

Just in case anyone is still consulting Dr. Trump.

I mean there were early accounts that it might help - I remember a French doctor talking about potential benefits.  So, even though Trump went way, way too far with hyping it up, I am not out for blood over it.

 

Now this injecting Lysol and Clorox stuff?  That might literally  be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  I think as a 7 year old I would have known better than that.

[greenminer]

23 minutes ago, CMJ said:

I mean there were early accounts that it might help - I remember a French doctor talking about potential benefits.  So, even though Trump went way, way too far with hyping it up, I am not out for blood over it.

 

Now this injecting Lysol and Clorox stuff?  That might literally  be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  I think as a 7 year old I would have known better than that.

We need our experts to stop swallowing their tongue and call him out on this rambling.  I think they can do this without shaming him in front of the audience.  Find some way to be constructive about it.

[Quoner]

1 minute ago, CMJ said:

I mean there were early accounts that it might help - I remember a French doctor talking about potential benefits.  So, even though Trump went way, way too far with hyping it up, I am not out for blood over it.

 

Now this injecting Lysol and Clorox stuff?  That might literally  be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  I think as a 7 year old I would have known better than that.

The Onion (on MARCH 25th): https://local.theonion.com/man-just-buying-one-of-every-cleaning-product-in-case-t-1842493766

Twitter (on MARCH 23rd): 

Rick (on MARCH 19)

On 3/19/2020 at 12:33 PM, FirefightnRick said:

Some good news on the research & findings towards a cure and prevention of covid19.

The FDA and CDC hope to have a vaccine within a few weeks or less.

Research using a combination of Chloroquine and Azythromiacin is showing promise in speeding up recovery and possibly a preventative?  

An interesting read on one of the clinical trials on that https://www.covidtrial.io

We may be able to obtain tests readily enough that we’ll be able to test ourselves at home as early as next week?  That would be incredible if the suppliers can pull that off?

 

[Quoner]

8 minutes ago, greenminer said:

We need our experts to stop swallowing their tongue and call him out on this rambling.  I think they can do this without shaming him in front of the audience.  Find some way to be constructive about it.

Good luck https://time.com/5825983/rick-bright-covid19-hydroxychloroquine-trump/