Food For Thought For Doomsayer Politicians

[UNTLifer]

On 2/19/2020 at 1:30 PM, ColoradoEagle said:

I mean, it's a wall between the US and Mexico/Central/South America. Currently his travel ban affects immigrants from majority Muslim countries, and Nigeria, Africa's largest country, was added to the list recently. 

And do you know why?  The answer isn't racism.

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, ColoradoEagle said:

I do. Do you do anything other than hurl every single insult in the book at someone and go with the whole "You must hate America!" schtick?

I never said you hated America, I am just asking that you think through the reasons why this is being erected instead of buying the Democrats line that Trump is racist.  The wall keeps people from just coming over at will.  The wall used to just be in certain areas where there was a big issue with illegal immigration.  Guess what?  They moved to areas where there wasn't a wall or built tunnels.  Securing our border to the south due to illegal immigration, drug smuggling, human trafficing is why the wall is being built.  If funnels people to the legal points of entry and allows Border Patrol to focus on certain areas.

[El Paso Eagle]

15 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I never said you hated America, I am just asking that you think through the reasons why this is being erected instead of buying the Democrats line that Trump is racist.  The wall keeps people from just coming over at will.  The wall used to just be in certain areas where there was a big issue with illegal immigration.  Guess what?  They moved to areas where there wasn't a wall or built tunnels.  Securing our border to the south due to illegal immigration, drug smuggling, human trafficing is why the wall is being built.  If funnels people to the legal points of entry and allows Border Patrol to focus on certain areas.

[MeanGreenTexan]

41 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I never said you hated America, I am just asking that you think through the reasons why this is being erected instead of buying the Democrats line that Trump is racist.  The wall keeps people from just coming over at will.  The wall used to just be in certain areas where there was a big issue with illegal immigration.  Guess what?  They moved to areas where there wasn't a wall or built tunnels.  Securing our border to the south due to illegal immigration, drug smuggling, human trafficing is why the wall is being built.  If funnels people to the legal points of entry and allows Border Patrol to focus on certain areas.

I really hope this isn't the thought behind building a multi-billion dollar wall.

Do you mean to tell me if there's a wall in their way, these folks are just going to go to a place swarming with border patrol agents to catch them instead?   Makes perfect sense.

If this is the thought, then Trump and everyone who supports this are playing checkers while the smugglers and immigrants are playing, I guess a higher level of checkers?   
It's not very hard.  Go under or over.  Stay away from border patrol.

Rather than fund this really dumb trophy for Trump, why not put more funds into our border patrol so they can hire more people & be better equipped to apprehend them, then keep them in more humane conditions while awaiting extradition.

[FirefightnRick]

6 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I really hope this isn't the thought behind building a multi-billion dollar wall.

Do you mean to tell me if there's a wall in their way, these folks are just going to go to a place swarming with border patrol agents to catch them instead?   Makes perfect sense.

If this is the thought, then Trump and everyone who supports this are playing checkers while the smugglers and immigrants are playing, I guess a higher level of checkers?   
It's not very hard.  Go under or over.  Stay away from border patrol.

Rather than fund this really dumb trophy for Trump, why not put more funds into our border patrol so they can hire more people & be better equipped to apprehend them, then keep them in more humane conditions while awaiting extradition.

Just curious, how do you know this?

 

 

Rick

[MeanGreenTexan]

8 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Just curious, how do you know this?

 

 

Rick

Elementary, dear Rick.

The statement was: a wall "funnels people to the legal points of entry and allows Border Patrol to focus on certain areas."  

I'm here to tell you that if people want to cross into our country illegally, they will not be doing so where they have a greater chance of being caught.  I would think this is understood.

So if the idea is to build a wall, then re-allocate patrols to areas of "legal points of entry", that will leave the wall standing there unprotected/un-patrolled.   People will go over or under to get in.

You must realize, many of the folks crossing over are desperate people.  They will do anything to flee the crises they're coming from.... but they won't just waltz up to the Del Rio checkpoint station and just hope they can get by.

[TheColonyEagle]

On 2/19/2020 at 9:59 AM, ColoradoEagle said:

His policies are ....... keep Muslims out....

 

The "Muslim ban" has been my favorite talking point of Trump's presidency...

If he hates Muslims.....Trump is doing a HORRIBLE job of keeping Muslims out. The countries above that are highlighted are in his ban. Plus Venezuela and North Korea (fairly certain the Muslim population of N Korea is 0.0%) and others that don't make the top list....

Maybe I don't understand when people say "Trump wants to keep Muslims out" If that's true...why wouldn't he ban more countries with more Muslims? Bangladesh has 9.2% of the worlds population of Muslims....he could knock out a pretty good chunk right there.

Nigeria is half Muslim...and they are new to the list....what about the other half of Nigerians that aren't Muslim, do they get to come?

Or maybe Trump, who is so unbelievably dumb, is actually really smart and his secret plan to turn us into "literal Nazis" is so complex we can't even understand it.

 

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Elementary, dear Rick.

The statement was: a wall "funnels people to the legal points of entry and allows Border Patrol to focus on certain areas."  

I'm here to tell you that if people want to cross into our country illegally, they will not be doing so where they have a greater chance of being caught.  I would think this is understood.

So if the idea is to build a wall, then re-allocate patrols to areas of "legal points of entry", that will leave the wall standing there unprotected/un-patrolled.   People will go over or under to get in.

You must realize, many of the folks crossing over are desperate people.  They will do anything to flee the crises they're coming from.... but they won't just waltz up to the Del Rio checkpoint station and just hope they can get by.

So your assuming this.  I thought maybe you worked in law enforcement, Border Patrol, emergency services, immigration services or some other entity that deals in the reality of it directly?

 

Rick

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

So your assuming this.  I thought maybe you worked in law enforcement, Border Patrol, emergency services, immigration services or some other entity that deals in the reality of it directly?

 

Rick

Yes, assuming.   Of course.

I suppose you're trying to discredit the very simple logic because I'm not a border patrol agent?   That's odd.   We're not Mean Green Football coaches, yet here we are on GMG.com opining.

I guess the proof will be in the pudding when we've spent Billions of dollars on walls, yet nothing changes.

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Yes, assuming.   Of course.

I suppose you're trying to discredit the very simple logic because I'm not a border patrol agent?   That's odd.   We're not Mean Green Football coaches, yet here we are on GMG.com opining.

I guess the proof will be in the pudding when we've spent Billions of dollars on walls, yet nothing changes.

Not at all.  I can’t even say I completely disagree with some of your statement.  But what is also elementary to me...is if there’s nothing there at all how can we have any chance at all to control what and who is coming into our country?  Answer:  we can’t.

 

Rick

[El Paso Eagle]

6 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Elementary, dear Rick.

The statement was: a wall "funnels people to the legal points of entry and allows Border Patrol to focus on certain areas."  

I'm here to tell you that if people want to cross into our country illegally, they will not be doing so where they have a greater chance of being caught.  I would think this is understood.

So if the idea is to build a wall, then re-allocate patrols to areas of "legal points of entry", that will leave the wall standing there unprotected/un-patrolled.   People will go over or under to get in.

You must realize, many of the folks crossing over are desperate people.  They will do anything to flee the crises they're coming from.... but they won't just waltz up to the Del Rio checkpoint station and just hope they can get by.

Not so fast... If you take a look at most of the "caravans" they are heading straight to Ports of Entries. However, in large POE's before the "walls" were going up it was very common for individuals and groups to try and cross so that they could easily "hide in the crowd".

The barriers are great in "out of the way" and dangerous terrain areas to help move the flow. And those areas, while not having as many "feet on the ground" do have sensors and camera systems. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

42 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Not at all.  I can’t even say I completely disagree with some of your statement.  But what is also elementary to me...is if there’s nothing there at all how can we have any chance at all to control what and who is coming into our country?  Answer:  we can’t.

 

Rick

The Border Patrol uses all kinds of tools to patrol the areas with nothing or small fencing.   They have asked for more funding around those tools, like heat sensors, drone technology, and even sensors that can detect underground tunnels.  I'm saying if we could divert the funding to this, and hiring more agents as well, we may have more success. 

 
And since there is such overcrowding at our current detaining facilities, we need to re-vamp/expand them so these folks aren't sleeping on bathroom floors and whatnot.

[El Paso Eagle]

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The Border Patrol uses all kinds of tools to patrol the areas with nothing or small fencing.   They have asked for more funding around those tools, like heat sensors, drone technology, and even sensors that can detect underground tunnels.  I'm saying if we could divert the funding to this, and hiring more agents as well, we may have more success. 

 
And since there is such overcrowding at our current detaining facilities, we need to re-vamp/expand them so these folks aren't sleeping on bathroom floors and whatnot.

Agree we need to do a better job in the detaining facilities, but they were never intended for the amount of people that are coming. The organized efforts to encourage and get people here have overwhelmed they system, especially when people kept saying there were no issues.

There are a number of things that need to be done. If those idiots on both sides would actually work together they could improve things quickly. And yes, Mexico helping to control the flow has helped to reduce the amount of people.

[FirefightnRick]

41 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The Border Patrol uses all kinds of tools to patrol the areas with nothing or small fencing.   They have asked for more funding around those tools, like heat sensors, drone technology, and even sensors that can detect underground tunnels.  I'm saying if we could divert the funding to this, and hiring more agents as well, we may have more success. .

Agree.  But I see no reason why we should not choose funding for all of the above.

 

Rick

 

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----A wall make sense in some places especially populated ones or near good roads that people travel .  ... but completely ... How STUPID ... It would cut off water supplies for wild animals including deer and cattle and take the ranchers land.   Plus there are other ways to get in.. tunnels and over the wall in isolated places,  boats across lakes and by ocean. by air .. etc... Besides a lot have crossed legally then didn't return....   There are 100's of streams that run into the Rio Grande ... so dam ALL of them  up or what ...and some carry lots of water at times and would take a HUGE area  of rather flat land to hold the water.***  ..... This sounds like some CITY-SLICKERS answer that has no understanding of the outdoors or the area along the Rio Grande.  ... or of the other ways to get in. 

. *** IMAGINE THE COST OF THAT .. VERY EXPENSIVE  COMPARED TO THE WALL's COST....

 don't say fix the wall so water can run through ... have you ever seen the trash [ limbs etc} that float/run down a stream. It would block up or just wash the wall away.. 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTLifer]

On 2/21/2020 at 7:19 AM, MeanGreenTexan said:

Elementary, dear Rick.

The statement was: a wall "funnels people to the legal points of entry and allows Border Patrol to focus on certain areas."  

I'm here to tell you that if people want to cross into our country illegally, they will not be doing so where they have a greater chance of being caught.  I would think this is understood.

So if the idea is to build a wall, then re-allocate patrols to areas of "legal points of entry", that will leave the wall standing there unprotected/un-patrolled.   People will go over or under to get in.

You must realize, many of the folks crossing over are desperate people.  They will do anything to flee the crises they're coming from.... but they won't just waltz up to the Del Rio checkpoint station and just hope they can get by.

You just don't get it.  Those that are legally trying to enter will go to points of legal entry instead of just walking across.  Those trying enter illegally, like the caravans funded by God know who, stop, don't try any longer or build tunnels, etc...  There will always be those trying to enter illegally, so why not make it more difficult?

It's kind of like the fence around Apogee.  It funnels people to the gates to enter legally insuring they paid.  Why not just take it down and let people come through wherever they please.  Those we catch that haven't paid, well, we will send them back out only to catch them another day.

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

You just don't get it.  Those that are legally trying to enter will go to points of legal entry instead of just walking across.  Those trying enter illegally, like the caravans funded by God know who, stop, don't try any longer or build tunnels, etc...  There will always be those trying to enter illegally, so why not make it more difficult?

It's kind of like the fence around Apogee.  It funnels people to the gates to enter legally insuring they paid.  Why not just take it down and let people come through wherever they please.  Those we catch that haven't paid, well, we will send them back out only to catch them another day.

Uh, aren't they already doing that?   Why would someone who could enter legally risk deportation by entering illegally?

And I agree about making it more difficult.   Let's beef up the personnel & tools at our border patrol's disposal.   A wall is not going to stop those who are desperate to come in.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Uh, aren't they already doing that?   Why would someone who could enter legally risk deportation by entering illegally?

And I agree about making it more difficult.   Let's beef up the personnel & tools at our border patrol's disposal.   A wall is not going to stop those who are desperate to come in.

Is a wall not a tool for the border patrol?

[Censored by Laurie]

12 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Is a wall not a tool for the border patrol?

is this not a tool for eating?

[UNTLifer]

41 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

is this not a tool for eating?

It is, but it won't stop people from eating with their hands, using a spoon, using a spork, etc...

Edited February 25, 2020 by UNTLifer

[Censored by Laurie]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

It is, but it won't stop people from eating with their hands, using a spoon, using a spork, etc...

so you're saying a shiny and over-priced utensil won't anymore effectively do it's job than a half-dozen more practical and cost-effective utensils and that the only cause in purchasing such a ridiculous utensil would be to satisfy one's own ego? 

[UNTLifer]

7 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

so you're saying a shiny and over-priced utensil won't anymore effectively do it's job than a half-dozen more practical and cost-effective utensils and that the only cause in purchasing such a ridiculous utensil would be to satisfy one's own ego? 

There are less expensive forks on the market from plastic utensils on up.  Some are good for one use, some aren't, some are terrible, etc...

Are you saying the is a less expensive wall out there and that the current model is overpriced?  Are you also insinuating that he is building it to safisfy his ego?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----A wall away from populated or areas with roads is not worth the money .... I notice no one mentioned what to do with the rivers and streams that run into the Rio Grande in those isolated places or what to do with wild animals and cattle that depend on that water. 

.

There is a huge difference in building a wall along a river with streams flowing into it compared with what can be built across the southern border of N.M. and Arizona where no large river exist.  Even on the personal level,  ranchers build fences much different near creeks than where there are none.. the city-types here just don't seem to "get it".... plus not considering 1000's of wild animals depend on that water to survive. 

Additional ... Didn't Trump PROMISE to make Mexico pay for it and on their side of the River..??? ( a campaign lie} 

Edited February 25, 2020 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTFan23]

21 hours ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

Additional ... Didn't Trump PROMISE to make Mexico pay for it and on their side of the River..??? ( a campaign lie} 

All politicians lie -- the ones currently in office and those trying to get in; it's part of the job description. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by UNTFan23

[HoustonEagle]

On 2/25/2020 at 10:53 AM, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

----A wall away from populated or areas with roads is not worth the money .... I notice no one mentioned what to do with the rivers and streams that run into the Rio Grande in those isolated places or what to do with wild animals and cattle that depend on that water. 

.

There is a huge difference in building a wall along a river with streams flowing into it compared with what can be built across the southern border of N.M. and Arizona where no large river exist.  Even on the personal level,  ranchers build fences much different near creeks than where there are none.. the city-types here just don't seem to "get it".... plus not considering 1000's of wild animals depend on that water to survive. 

Additional ... Didn't Trump PROMISE to make Mexico pay for it and on their side of the River..??? ( a campaign lie} 

This is all pretty much spot on.