New Defensive Coordinator Clint Bowen

[97and03]

A) Please stop replying to BenGooding. It negates the ignore function.

B) This guy should be fine. Not a major splash but a solid hire with a ton of experience doing less with more. 

C) If the offense had been better, our defense did enough to get us to 6-6 this season. Don’t know if you remember but the most they gave up in those two games was 26. I would take that as an average for the year. 
 

All this to say is that if this offense is clicking, all we need is an average defense to get a handful of stops each game. That is if we get an OC that clicks with Seth and score over 30 each game as we are supposed to.

So let’s welcome Coach Bowen, stop feeding trolls, and find a friggin OC! (And another defensive lineman nor two.)

Edited December 20, 2019 by 97and03

[meaniegreenie]

21 hours ago, p_phelps said:

He gave up 30 points a game when he was here

So you're excited about the prospects for an improvement? (UNT 2019 defense: 32.5 pts/game)

[TIgreen01]

2017 Kansas results.  That's year 3 in the system.  Someone mentioned this isn't close to Cosh b/c Cosh had given up 41 to a terrible UNT team.  You might want to look, again.  Pick any year he was DC at KU and you're going to see similar results and scorelines.

I'm not going to say that he'll definitely fail here.  He did have decent success at WKU and I do remember that first McCarney team.  We'll certainly force more turnovers under Bowen than we did this last season.  Littrell is from the Leach tree, which is a tree that believes it just needs a couple more possessions per game than opponents to win.  The priority on defense is on getting turnovers and only needing a few stops a game.  Bowen is probably a good fit for that.  Those hoping for more than that, and for a more dominant defense take the field are going to be underwhelmed by this hire.  Again, this probably fits the philosophy Litrrell is going for.  It just ain't for me.  I'll be there in the stands, regardless.

Edited December 20, 2019 by TIgreen01

[El Paso Eagle]

28 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Dunno. It's like, not my job. But if this is the best UNT can do, then I guess it's the best UNT can do, right? 

But it's "your job" to complain?

 

[Monkeypox]

Except for his first year under Young, he's never had a good defense. Ever (highest ranking is #83). 

When given opportunities to be a DC, he's always either had to be paired with someone else, been demoted, or gone running back to Kansas for a lesser position. 

While you can't please everyone, it seems like most Kansas fans are overjoyed that we've hired him away. The best you'll get is "he's a good guy, but hasn't been a very good coach. wish him well."

This looks to me like a guy who's most likely reached his ceiling as a position coach. He loves Kansas, and that's great, I guess. It's certainly possible that he's stunted his own growth by staying there or continuing to go back. But I'm not giving him the same excuse we gave McCarney (but it's HAARD to be good there).  That was his choice, and I can only go by the history he has. 

I mean, I'm not going to call it a BAD hire. I'm just also not super excited about it. The most positive thing for me is that he's a good age (40s) for his experience level and he's run a 4-man front historically. 

 

[Cr1028]

7 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

2017 Kansas results.  That's year 3 in the system.  Someone mentioned this isn't close to Cosh b/c Cosh had given up 41 to a terrible UNT team.  You might want to look, again.  Pick any year he was DC at KU and you're going to see similar results and scorelines.

I'm not going to say that he'll definitely fail here.  He did have decent success at WKU and I do remember that first McCarney team.  We'll certainly force more turnovers under Bowen than we did this last season.  Littrell is from the Leach tree, which is a tree that believes it just needs a couple more possessions per game than opponents to win.  The priority on defense is on getting turnovers and only needing a few stops a game.  Bowen is probably a good fit for that.  Those hoping for more than that, and for a more dominant defense take the field are going to be underwhelmed by this hire.  Again, this probably fits the philosophy Litrrell is going for.  It just ain't for me.  I'll be there in the stands, regardless.

I blame Doug Meacham. Thank goodness we ended up with Seth and not him.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

5 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

But it's "your job" to complain?

 

Yeah. Sort of so. As an alum, fan and regular attendee of athletic games. 

If I see what I perceive to be a detrimental error to OUR athletic program taking place, it's sort of OUR job to point it out ad nauseam. I thought that's how it worked being a fan and what not? Is that not how UNT fans are? Or shall I just reach down, grab my ankles, and say thank you after every poor decision happens? 

Edited December 20, 2019 by NorthTexasWeLove

[NorthTexasWeLove]

Just now, Monkeypox said:

Except for his first year under Young, he's never had a good defense. Ever (highest ranking is #83). 

When given opportunities to be a DC, he's always either had to be paired with someone else, been demoted, or gone running back to Kansas for a lesser position. 

While you can't please everyone, it seems like most Kansas fans are overjoyed that we've hired him away. The best you'll get is "he's a good guy, but hasn't been a very good coach. wish him well."

This looks to me like a guy who's most likely reached his ceiling as a position coach. He loves Kansas, and that's great, I guess. It's certainly possible that he's stunted his own growth by staying there or continuing to go back. But I'm not giving him the same excuse we gave McCarney (but it's HAARD to be good there).  That was his choice, and I can only go by the history he has. 

I mean, I'm not going to call it a BAD hire. I'm just also not super excited about it. The most positive thing for me is that he's a good age (40s) for his experience level and he's run a 4-man front historically. 

 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

24 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

A) Please stop replying to BenGooding. It negates the ignore function.

B) This guy should be fine. Not a major splash but a solid hire with a ton of experience doing less with more. 

C) If the offense had been better, our defense did enough to get us to 6-6 this season. Don’t know if you remember but the most they gave up in those two games was 26. I would take that as an average for the year. 
 

All this to say is that if this offense is clicking, all we need is an average defense to get a handful of stops each game. That is if we get an OC that clicks with Seth and score over 30 each game as we are supposed to.

So let’s welcome Coach Bowen, stop feeding trolls, and find a friggin OC! (And another defensive lineman nor two.)

Hey look, we agreed on something!

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Dunno. It's like, not my job. But if this is the best UNT can do, then I guess it's the best UNT can do, right? 

I have no answer, but damn it, I will bitch nonstop about whatever UNT or SL does. It is what I am good at. Bitch with no solution. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

13 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I have no answer, but damn it, I will bitch nonstop about whatever UNT or SL does. It is what I am good at. Bitch with no solution. 

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Better that than...

[Side Show Joe]

It seems some on here lack the ability to remove their green colored glasses, or put down their green Kool-Aid and examine this hire objectively and logically. I'm not saying Bowen is worse than Reff, but we should all ask the question, "Is this the best hire UNT could make?" I say No. we probably could have done better. Let the down votes begin.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Side Show Joe

[VideoEagle]

4 hours ago, 97and03 said:

A) Please stop replying to BenGooding. It negates the ignore function.

Yes, please! 

[Cr1028]

28 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

It seems some on here lack the ability to remove their green colored glasses, or put down their green Kool-Aid and examine this hire objectively and logically. I'm not saying Bowen is worse than Reff, but we should all ask the question, "Is this the best hire UNT could make?" I say No. we probably could have done better. Let the down votes begin.

You have no idea whether this the best hire or not. Many thought Chad Morris would be the best hire at Arkansas too. 
 

Looking back, many had mixed feelings about Skladany coming on board and that worked out pretty well. 

 

[UNT18Grad]

52 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

It seems some on here lack the ability to remove their green colored glasses, or put down their green Kool-Aid and examine this hire objectively and logically. I'm not saying Bowen is worse than Reff, but we should all ask the question, "Is this the best hire UNT could make?" I say No. we probably could have done better. Let the down votes begin.

Sure, let's view it logically and objectively.  Kansas typically has the worst or second to worst recruiting class in one of the most offensively talented conferences in football, to go along with that is an offense that could be described as terrible at best, not exactly a great scenario to be a DC right?  Despite this many of Bowen's former players have gone on to achieve success at the next level, and he has maintained having a job despite all of his shortcomings.  One could point at UNT in 2011 or WKU in 2010 as other examples of Bowen's coaching abilities.  Maybe this is my "green colored glasses" talking, but would anyone here argue that this team is much much more talented than either of those teams?  I believe this is the best situation Bowen has ever found himself in talent wise when compared to his opponents, and I'm excited to see what he can do with the opportunity.  We are getting a guy with P5 HC and DC experience, that isn't something that's easy to come by.  Realistically speaking I would love to hear a handful of examples of the best hire UNT could have made, and please don't even think about throwing the name Todd Orlando out there.

[Side Show Joe]

18 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

You have no idea whether this the best hire or not. Many thought Chad Morris would be the best hire at Arkansas too. 
 

Looking back, many had mixed feelings about Skladany coming on board and that worked out pretty well. 

 

Sure I have an idea. I just have to look at the collective evidence. Bowen had a really memorable season at Kansas when he was co-defensive coordinator, 13 years ago, back in 2007. But, since then he has had much less success. His defense gave up 30 points a game in his lone season at UNT. And, in his most recent stop as Kansas' DC, their team managed to win 6 games from 2015-2018. Look, I have nothing against him, but based on his recent lack of success, I see nothing wrong with questioning this hire.

[Side Show Joe]

13 minutes ago, UNT18Grad said:

Sure, let's view it logically and objectively.  Kansas typically has the worst or second to worst recruiting class in one of the most offensively talented conferences in football, to go along with that is an offense that could be described as terrible at best, not exactly a great scenario to be a DC right?  Despite this many of Bowen's former players have gone on to achieve success at the next level, and he has maintained having a job despite all of his shortcomings.  One could point at UNT in 2011 or WKU in 2010 as other examples of Bowen's coaching abilities.  Maybe this is my "green colored glasses" talking, but would anyone here argue that this team is much much more talented than either of those teams?  I believe this is the best situation Bowen has ever found himself in talent wise when compared to his opponents, and I'm excited to see what he can do with the opportunity.  We are getting a guy with P5 HC and DC experience, that isn't something that's easy to come by.  Realistically speaking I would love to hear a handful of examples of the best hire UNT could have made, and please don't even think about throwing the name Todd Orlando out there.

Sure.

Mark Snyder, former Defensive coordinator at Texas A&M (2012-14), Ohio State (2001-04), & South Florida (2010-11). He was also a head coach at Marshall (2005-09). Currently an assistant at Florida State (making $450K), but is probably out of a job now. Great Texas ties, C-USA ties, and has won on in the best FBS conference (SEC).

Edited December 21, 2019 by Side Show Joe

[Cr1028]

Just now, Side Show Joe said:

Sure I have an idea. I just have to look at the collective evidence. Bowen had a really memorable season at Kansas when he was co-defensive coordinator, 13 years ago, back in 2007. But, since then he has had much less success. His defense gave up 30 points a game in his lone season at UNT. And, in his most recent stop as Kansas' DC, their team managed to win 6 games from 2015-2018. Look, I have nothing against him, but based on his recent lack of success, I see nothing wrong with questioning this hire.

Unless your name is Seth Littrell or Wren Baker AND you have the ability to predict the future, you cannot possibly know if this was the best candidate for us to hire. You certainly have the ability and the right to question the hire but you cannot say definitively whether it was the best hire or not, only Seth can do that and he can only do it in hindsight.

I"m in a wait and see mode. I'm not saying he is a good or bad hire, I will just see what happens and judge what I see with my eyes. At this point I'm not even ready to say he is better than Reffett was because I thought the bad offense wore out a young defense this year. One thing I can say about Bowen though is that his defense at North Texas in 2011 forced more turnovers than Deloach's did in 2008, 2009, or 2010 and Skladany's did in 2012 or 2014.

[Side Show Joe]

Just now, Cr1028 said:

Unless your name is Seth Littrell or Wren Baker AND you have the ability to predict the future, you cannot possibly know if this was the best candidate for us to hire. You certainly have the ability and the right to question the hire but you cannot say definitively whether it was the best hire or not, only Seth can do that and he can only do it in hindsight.

I"m in a wait and see mode. I'm not saying he is a good or bad hire, I will just see what happens and judge what I see with my eyes. At this point I'm not even ready to say he is better than Reffett was because I thought the bad offense wore out a young defense this year. One thing I can say about Bowen though is that his defense at North Texas in 2011 forced more turnovers than Deloach's did in 2008, 2009, or 2010 and Skladany's did in 2012 or 2014.

We are all in wait and see mode. It's all we can do. I gave you what I believe to be a better hire (Mark Snyder). Do you think Bowen has been a more successful DC?

[Cr1028]

34 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

Sure.

Mark Snyder, former Defensive coordinator at Texas A&M (2012-14), Ohio State (2001-04), & South Florida (2010-11). He was also a head coach at Marshall (2005-09). Currently an assistant at Florida State (making $450K), but is probably out of a job now. Great Texas ties, C-USA ties, and has won on in the best FBS conference (SEC).

I don't think Snyder would be a great choice and there is a reason he isn't a DC right now.

Snyder has not been a DC since he was run out of A&M in 2014. Coincidentally Bowen was DC at KU that year so lets compare. In 2014 while he had a freshman phenom named Myles Garrett breaking Clowney's freshman sack record, his Aggie defense forced 13 turnovers (119th in the nation). That bum Bowen's KU defense only forced 21 (57th) and Skladany's final NT bunch forced 22 (50th).

For total defense, NT allowed 369.4ypg (42nd), A&M allowed 450.8 (102nd), and KU allowed 453.2 (106th).

For scoring defense, A&M allowed 28.1 ppg (75th in the nation), NT allowed 29.8 (84th), and KU allowed 33.3 (104th).

You might be thinking, SEE Snyder's A&M defense was 29 spots higher than Bowen's KU defense on point per game, and you'd be right. However, when you look at the other side of the ball and see that the Aggie offense got 300 first downs (33rd in the nation, while KU only got 197 (117th). It is safe to say that Bowen did WAY more with WAY less in 2014. Also, Skladany did the same, North Texas only gained 213 first downs in 2014 (110th), thanks Coach Mac!

Edited December 21, 2019 by Cr1028

[UNT18Grad]

49 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

Sure.

Mark Snyder, former Defensive coordinator at Texas A&M (2012-14), Ohio State (2001-04), & South Florida (2010-11). He was also a head coach at Marshall (2005-09). Currently an assistant at Florida State (making $450K), but is probably out of a job now. Great Texas ties, C-USA ties, and has won on in the best FBS conference (SEC).

Reffett made less than 300k last year, there is a reported salary pool bump, but if he can make that money or close to it being a low risk assistant at a P5 school why would he come here?  Let's be realistic, CUSA is the 7th or 8th best conference in football, a 54 year old assistant who probably isn't trying to be a HC again isn't going to take a downward career path and less salary for this job.  As for "great" Texas ties, I'm not sure I would qualify 3 of your 30 coaching years being in Texas or even close to the state of Texas as great.  And winning in the best conference..not sure I would call it that.  He had a Heisman trophy winner on the other side of the ball his first 2 years, really works wonders for the defense.  As for his only year without Manziel well: "After the season, which was marred by defensive struggles, Sumlin dismissed his defensive coordinator, Mark Snyder." 

Edit: I'd like to add I found that Bowen was making 500k at KU, so my money argument is not as relevant.  Point still stands that backed by the 16th, 9th, and 5th nationally ranked classes Snyder was able to get himself fired.

Anybody else that would be a good hire for you?

Edited December 21, 2019 by UNT18Grad

[Cr1028]

23 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

We are all in wait and see mode. It's all we can do. I gave you what I believe to be a better hire (Mark Snyder). Do you think Bowen has been a more successful DC?

Thank you for responding and yes I think Bowen has been more successful with what they had to work with.

 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

8 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

You have no idea whether this the best hire or not. Many thought Chad Morris would be the best hire at Arkansas too. 
 

Looking back, many had mixed feelings about Skladany coming on board and that worked out pretty well. 

 

Who in the F thought Chad Morris would be the best hire for Arkansas?!?! Put. The. Crack. Pipe. Down. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

7 hours ago, Side Show Joe said:

Sure I have an idea. I just have to look at the collective evidence. Bowen had a really memorable season at Kansas when he was co-defensive coordinator, 13 years ago, back in 2007. But, since then he has had much less success. His defense gave up 30 points a game in his lone season at UNT. And, in his most recent stop as Kansas' DC, their team managed to win 6 games from 2015-2018. Look, I have nothing against him, but based on his recent lack of success, I see nothing wrong with questioning this hire.

Shhhhh.... You're being logical. Bury your hand in the sand and in 2 years from now be surprised this hire didn't work out. It's the UNT way.