It’s not just us

[untjim1995]

This year, the state of Texas, which is supposed to have the best high school football talent in the country, had its 12 FBS colleges produce 4 teams with a winning season—Baylor (🤨), SMU (🤢), A&M (🙄), and UT (😩). The last two won 7 games and lost 5. 

TCU went 5-7. UNT, UH, UTSA, and Tech went 4-8. Texas State and Rice went 3-9. UTEP went 1-11.

TCU beat UT and Tech for 2 wins. We beat UTSA and UTEP for 2 wins. UTSA beat Rice and UTEP for 2 wins. Rice beat us and UTEP for two wins. UH beat us for 1 win. Tech beat UTEP for 1 win. UT beat Rice and Tech for 2 wins. A&M beat UTSA and Texas State for 2 wins. Finally, SMU beat us, TCU,  UH, and Texas State for 4 wins, while Baylor beat UT, Tech, TCU, UTSA, and Rice for 5 wins. Texas State and UTEP didn’t beat a Texas FBS team.  

Baylor did well against non-Texas FBS competition, going 5-2. SMU went 6-2. UT went 5-3. A&M went 4-5. TCU went 2-5. Tech went 2-5. UH went 1-7. We went 1-5. UTSA went 1-5. Rice went 1-6. Texas State went 2-7. UTEP went 0-7.

This proud state of ours is suffering mightily from the state of play at our high school levels of play. We aren’t developing linemen or defense enough to beat anyone outside of this state on any regular basis. This stupid spread stuff is basically glorified 7-on-7. Until this changes, I don’t see things changing much for any of us.

 

 

[Salsa_Verde]

Another factor to consider is the out of state competition in recruiting. Every program wants a foothold in Texas. A lot of Texas kids end up playing out of state more and more it seems. 

[untjim1995]

3 minutes ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Another factor to consider is the out of state competition in recruiting. Every program wants a foothold in Texas. A lot of Texas kids end up playing out of state more and more it seems. 

True, but the 12 schools here depend on the TX HS recruits to build their programs. Right now, we are not exactly killing it as a group, especially when we play non Texas FBS competition. 

[Cr1028]

33 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

True, but the 12 schools here depend on the TX HS recruits to build their programs. Right now, we are not exactly killing it as a group, especially when we play non Texas FBS competition. 

You may be on to something. Only 5 Texas High School programs are too 25 nationally. 
 

They are correct that talent has been leaving the state though. Of the playoff teams. OU has 42 Texas players including their top passer, top rusher, top 2 receivers, and top 2 tacklers. LSU has 15 Texas players including Thorpe winner Delpit. OSU has 6 including their leading rusher JK Dobbins. Clemson has 1, a starting right end who was Gene Stallings grandson.

[untjim1995]

12 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

You may be on to something. Only 5 Texas High School programs are too 25 nationally. 
 

They are correct that talent has been leaving the state though. Of the playoff teams. OU has 42 Texas players including their top passer, top rusher, top 2 receivers, and top 2 tacklers. LSU has 15 Texas players including Thorpe winner Delpit. OSU has 6 including their leading rusher JK Dobbins. Clemson has 1, a starting right end who was Gene Stallings grandson.

Yes, but OU has always gotten texas kids to go there. LSU is basically doing what Arkansas used to do back in the old SWC days. But I think the real issue here is that these schools are getting the Texas HS kids that will compliment their styles, which is not depending on them to be great at playing the lines or linebackers. A&M looks slow and weak compared to their SEC brethren. Even OU looks weak when they go play in the playoffs against these other power schools. On our level, our CUSA West teams must just love feasting on our weak teams from this state. La Tech, UAB, and USM have just whipped our asses for a while now.

I really don’t know how this gets fixed. I used to think Gary Patterson had the right idea, but his TCU teams have really fallen back in the last few seasons on defense. Baylor did have a heckuva defense this past season, compared to everyone else in the state. Maybe Rhule is going to be the one who plays chess when everyone else plays checkers, like Patterson did. This is why I thought DMac had the right idea here with focusing on developing linemen and being physical. Unfortunately, he couldn’t recruit anyone with talent to come here on offense, since nobody runs his old school offense. Combine that with his inability to even understand modern QB play and we fell completely down to a level that should have never been reached. All I know is that teams like Memphis, UCF, Cincy, La Tech, UAB, USM, and the must love playing our college teams.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

We should Texit, keep our players in Texas, and play amongst ourselves

[GrandGreen]

Questionable view IMO.  Texas doesn't produce enough high school talent to make twelve in-state teams winners plus at the same time exporting a large portion of the top talent to the national power teams.  

Not producing enough linemen because what. Texas teams play with only skill players?  

 Linemen have always been at a premium because of the size required.

There are in comparison many more players that fit the usual dimensions of QB, RB, WR, and DB, LB's.  Finding big players is not the challenge, but finding big players that are quick enough to play college ball are. 

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Questionable view IMO.  Texas doesn't produce enough high school talent to make twelve in-state teams winners plus at the same time exporting a large portion of the top talent to the national power teams.  

Not producing enough linemen because what. Texas teams play with only skill players?  

 Linemen have always been at a premium because of the size required.

There are in comparison many more players that fit the usual dimensions of QB, RB, WR, and DB, LB's.  Finding big players is not the challenge, but finding big players that are quick enough to play college ball are. 

The results of our teams in this state for the last few years has not been good. We have seen a few good teams in the last 5 seasons, but not many. Last year, us, UH, UT, A&M, and Baylor had winning regular seasons. It just seems like the state can’t produce the physicality it once did. And I do blame that on Mike Leach and the way TX HS coaches adopted his offense—they love it, the kids love playing in it, and the fans like the offense lighting up the scoreboard. But it makes defense less of a priority and tackling skills become worse and worse. 

[greenminer]

I'm not sold.  If TX lacks size and physicality, the TX programs can go to another state to recruit.  It's not like they're limited to Texas recruits.

But you've given this much more thought than I have.

On 3/7/2019 at 10:40 AM, untjim1995 said:

The problem with this is that TX HS football doesn’t produce defensive players anymore since we play glorified 7-on-7.

Thats why DLinemen are such a premium and usually go to big schools. Otherwise, it’s developing your linemen into becoming bigger guys and scheming differently. 

 

On 11/23/2019 at 9:38 PM, untjim1995 said:

Tx HS defense sucks—look at the scores of these playoff games and see the ridiculous 7-on-7 garbage. Unless we get a Gary Patterson type mindset, your only hope is outscoring the other team. And that ain’t happening here, as SL is here for at least two more years. 

 

On 11/14/2019 at 8:25 AM, untjim1995 said:

I think that used to be true, but the glorified 7-on-7 we play now at our high schools in Texas is showing how little defense matters in this state. Look at our colleges (include OU and OSU ). All of them play spread offenses, all of them have bad defenses. Big XII, AAC, CUSA, and SBC—the Texas schools can score a lot but can’t match up with physical teams that play defense in other states. A&M barely competes in the SEC, the Big XII schools almost always get pummeled by the physical teams in the Southeast, none of the AAC, SBC, or CUSA schools from here can compete week-in and week-our with the teams in the Southeast, either. 

 

On 11/9/2019 at 9:15 PM, untjim1995 said:

Some serious homers in this thread. La Tech has been way better than us for the last 25 years. Sure, we have had a year or two better, but they have wins over some great names over the years and they get the leftovers of non-P5 talent in Louisiana. Hint, they play defense in that state AT ALL LEVELS. Watch a TX HS football—it’s glorified 7-on-7. Our coaching staff already makes defense second to offense, so imagine what it looks like when a kid happens to look at us and La Tech. Hint 2, it’s not even close.

 

On 10/28/2019 at 11:39 PM, untjim1995 said:

Add in very poor defensive coaching in Texas high school football which is now just glorified 7-on-7, and now you see why this area of the country hasn’t was jack when they face physical teams in the last decade.

 

[Pavlovs Eagle]

Don't forget that Tarelton went 11-1!

[UNTLifer]

57 minutes ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

Don't forget that Tarelton went 11-1!

Different level 

[FirefightnRick]

13 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

And I do blame that on Mike Leach and the way TX HS coaches adopted his offense—they love it, the kids love playing in it, and the fans like the offense lighting up the scoreboard. But it makes defense less of a priority and tackling skills become worse and worse. 

There’s a lot of high school football that doesn’t rely n Chunk & Duck offenses.

 Go watch Aledo today.  Amarillo Tascosa runs a triple option out of the flex bone.  Gunter does too.  Brock runs the slot T.  All very successful at it.  Even as of this season L.D. Bell has changed to a run based flex bone offense.

Football kids that love the sport love the contact, and those kids also love to win. So there’s plenty of football talent in Texas and throughout the country to operate a physical run-blocking style offense if that’s what the coach wants to run.  

 

Rick

[untjim1995]

5 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

There’s a lot of high school football that doesn’t rely n Chunk & Duck offenses.

 Go watch Aledo today.  Amarillo Tascosa runs a triple option out of the flex bone.  Gunter does too.  Brock runs the slot T.  All very successful at it.  Even as of this season L.D. Bell has changed to a run based flex bone offense.

Football kids that love the sport love the contact, and those kids also love to win. So there’s plenty of football talent in Texas and throughout the country to operate a physical run-blocking style offense if that’s what the coach wants to run.  

 

Rick

So i guess we all suck at hiring coaches to actually win in this state, because we have about 2 teams a year that are any good...

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

So i guess we all suck at hiring coaches to actually win in this state, because we have about 2 teams a year that are any good...

Or maybe it’s really hard to recruit in a pool of 115+ FBS rosters?

[UNT18Grad]

To make this claim you'd have to show me a decline in all Texas teams overall records over the last 20ish years because that should show the impact of the spread offense.  Houston, Baylor, TCU, and Texas Tech are looking better now than they were pre-2000.  UNT, Rice, SMU, UTEP, and Texas have all stayed about the same.  A&M is probably the one school I'd say has gotten worse over that time frame because they had some good years pre-Big 12.  UTSA and Texas State are still new so I won't include them since they wouldn't have history to show any movement.  I went and looked at their historical records because I was honestly curious if you were onto something, but since 9/10 teams showed improvement or little to no change I think it's fair to say we should look at other factors besides this one.

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, Luigi said:

Mccarney's 1970s offense and 1950s coaching set this program back at least a decade.

Three straight bowl games is getting set back a decade?  

Who knew?

 

Rick

[Pavlovs Eagle]

On 12/14/2019 at 11:43 AM, UNTLifer said:

Different level 

[VideoEagle]

3 hours ago, Luigi said:

Making a bowl game when there's almost 80 of them and making one at 5-7 isn't an accomplishment.

Well, there actually are about 40 - I think 41 this year. Not "almost 80."

Making a bowl game at 5-7 is an academic accomplishment and demonstrates how far NT has come academically with its athletes.

A little math to explain: roughly 2500 FBS scholarship football players run out of eligibility each year. There are less than 275 NFL player positions open in any given year meaning around 89% of them will need to do something other than football to support themselves for the rest of their lives. Actually, most of the 275 will need to do something else most of their live since the average NFL career is just 3.3 years. The purpose of college is to educate students including the athletes. If they are going to be successful, the vast majority of the athletes we enjoy watching really will NEED this education.

Winning our way into a bowl game in the classroom clearly is not as good winning it on a football field. But, obviously, being able to show NT is doing more for its student athletes than 90% of the other FBS schools most certainly IS an outstanding accomplishment. 

[FirefightnRick]

Just now, Luigi said:

 

That is a Fox News level spin job. You should look into working for the media unless your username already implies that you do.

That beats the Constipated News Network over exaggeration you vomited above with your claim that McCarney set us back ten years.

12 months after McCarney left this campus his replacement came within 1 game of earning a bowl game with 5 wins.  No one is defending that HOD bowl invite but wether you liked it nor not we had to have 5 wins in order to take advantage of the academic rule.

Going from 1-11 to 5-7, 9-4 and  9-4 including a rout of SMU and Arkansas is forward,.....not backwards.

 

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, Luigi said:

Ok Boomer

 

Although I’m not of that generation at least I know 5 > 1.

 

Rick

[Aldo]

GMG back and forths these days

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, Luigi said:

Ok Boomer

 

I missed officially being part of that generation by one year.  I would rather be a boomer than what followed.  I take that comment as a compliment, so thanks snowflake.

[Cerebus]

Stop being jerks to one another or the temp bans will commence.