This can’t be good...

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2019

4 minutes ago, Texas Stranger said:

Wait, are we supposed to want NT recruits to have good offer lists or not?

Yes, but we're also supposed to fret and assume that we lost a commit whenever a P5 school offers. It's the UNT way.

Udomann · November 21, 2019

9 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Because of the same broken record style. Every post in every thread is the same. I am not sure where you get that anyone is ok with this season’s failure. But almost no one is ready to burn everything down. And certainly no one else but you has to post the same critique over and over, as if posting on a message board is the final piece of the puzzle that will get NT to the next level.

Well, color me passionate then. But I'm not about to blow rainbows up everyone about how excited I am for our future. This whole thread was about a recruit who will most likely flip to a better school. My points are: what do we have to offer this guy that FSU doesn't? Which of course devolves into a discussion on our deficiencies (staff). FSU is even at their lowest point in a long long time, and we would still lose to them both in game and recruiting. That is. NOT. acceptable. Not with what we offer.

Yes, I like to gauge folks reaction to stirring that pot a bit, but I firmly believe we need a shakeup. Something to show us that our athletics dept is pushing it forward. Otherwise we are getting Dodge results for p5 pay.

Everyone likes to put those back to back 9 win seasons out there. But those are 9 wins in, what is legitimately, the worst g5 conference. The teams that are actually good to decent have wrecked us.

Be better. Do better. They have everything you could want to succeed, and instead it's just a downhill rodeo. Which I'll continue to watch, because it's my team, and I haven't missed more than a handful of games in 15 years. But I am not required to drink the green koolaid and be happy about it.

SilverEagle · November 21, 2019

10 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

We are coming off of two nine win seasons. Our down year is probably going to end 6-6. Recruiting has picked up big time. Everything is going to be fine.

Lets see, our first 9 win season included getting bent over a chair twice by FAU and then in the NO by Troy.

Our second 9 win season included a loss to that powerhouse team Old Dominion. It culminated with our usual position (bent over a chair) at the hands of Utah State in the NM bowl.

In early November last year, I read this article...."Six College teams that nobody really wants to play right now".

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/11/8/18064566/ucf-clemson-alabama-utah-state-michigan-iowa-state

Here is the summary about Utah State from that article.

4. Utah State. The Aggies are a combination of two things no one wants a piece of: overdue and over.

Utah State is overdue in the sense that injuries and bad luck limited their production in 2015 and 2016. Rollover points aren’t real, but they might be for Utah State, a team on an eight-game win streak in which they’ve averaged over 50 points a game and destroyed everything in their wake.

They’re over in the sense that they are literally over, beating the spread by 13 points a game in 2018.

Most of that is due to the players, but some credit should also go to offensive coordinator David Yost for his aggressive schemes, play calling, and hair.

The Salt Lake Tribune

✔@sltrib

Utah State's Offensive Coordinator David Yost has turned the Aggies into an offensive juggernaut. This is how he did it. https://trib.al/OIL9v5G

1

When I heard about our opponent in the NM bowl, it was an easy decision to just stay home and watch it on TV. Because I knew exactly how the game was going to end.......in typical SL-coached fashion.

Edited November 21, 2019 by SilverEagle

UNTLifer · November 21, 2019

10 hours ago, Udomann said:

Sure. Let's resort to insulting someone over facts. That's good discussion. I'm just expressing my views. I've not attacked anyone. This is a discussion board, yes?

Facts? You state that you think SL and staff don't want to be here and have one foot out the door...that's opinion. Rock bottom? Again, opinion. No recruiting pipelines established yet we are experiencing our best recruiting year ever and HS coach's polls rate SL as probably the most trustworthy D1 coach in Texas....again, your opinion. Amazing facilities but still can't attract recruits, as you stated. We currently have the #1 class in CUSA, #59 in all of D1 after being mid to lower level CUSA and ranked in the 100's of all schools. The "amazing facilities" were just completed and there is still work to do on the AC and strength and conditioning areas. Again, your opinion doesn't match the facts.

Is this year disappointing? Absolutely. Is it so bad that we should turn our back on the HC that was brought in to fix a mess? Absolutely not. As I have stated previously, he had to establish relationships with HS coaches because our previous staff put forth zero effort in recruiting. Those early classes that ranked very low are hurting us now, but the future has never been as bright as it is now.

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2019

29 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

...

When I heard about our opponent in the NM bowl, it was an easy decision to just stay home and watch it on TV. Because I knew exactly how the game was going to end.......in typical SL-coached fashion.

I'm happy to report that your hindsight appears to be 20/20 Silver!
The game was competitive (7-14) until Fine went out the first time.
Did you also stay home since you knew Fine would be out for 3 quarters? Did you stay home because you knew your favorite QB was gonna spell him with 3 INTs?

EDIT: <This is not just Silver> NT fans are probably better than any other fans in FBS at cannibalizing our successes & highlighting our failures.

Edited November 21, 2019 by MeanGreenTexan

NorthTexasWeLove · November 21, 2019

9 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I'm happy to report that your hindsight appears to be 20/20 Silver!
The game was competitive (7-14) until Fine went out the first time.
Did you also stay home since you knew Fine would be out for 3 quarters? Did you stay home because you knew your favorite QB was gonna spell him with 3 INTs?

EDIT: <This is not just Silver> NT fans are probably better than any other fans in FBS at cannibalizing our successes & highlighting our failures.

Yeah. But those 9-win seasons were against garbage. And when I say garbage, I mean a down year for what is standard garbage CUSA. It was garbage compiled on top of garbage. Very few "quality" wins to be found in there. We just happened to be the tallest midget in the room 9 times x 2.

Udomann · November 21, 2019

10 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

EDIT: <This is not just Silver> NT fans are probably better than any other fans in FBS at cannibalizing our successes & highlighting our failures.

We are also equally good at overrating success and hand waving away failure. We really are a bit of a dichotomy of a fan base. Black and white, not a lot of gray. I guess it keeps things fun in a game where anything can happen. Just usually happens to us.

SilverEagle · November 21, 2019

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

I'm happy to report that your hindsight appears to be 20/20 Silver!
The game was competitive (7-14) until Fine went out the first time.
Did you also stay home since you knew Fine would be out for 3 quarters? Did you stay home because you knew your favorite QB was gonna spell him with 3 INTs?

Well, I knew that it didn't matter about Fine's health. Was he hurt during the two losses to FAU in 17?? Was he hurt in the NO bowl? Was he hurt in the Old Dominion game?

What I knew was that Utah St. was bigger, faster, and stronger than us. Much like FAU and Troy. And I knew that there was a good chance that the outcome would be the same.

What I knew was that after running up pretty good leads against La Tech and UAB and (once again) Old Dominion, which we blew, it wouldn't matter how well we initially did against Utah St........they were going to kick our ass......with or without Fine playing the whole game.

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2019

7 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Yeah. But those 9-win seasons were against garbage. And when I say garbage, I mean a down year for what is standard garbage CUSA. It was garbage compiled on top of garbage. Very few "quality" wins to be found in there. We just happened to be the tallest midget in the room 9 times x 2.

My man, just like in the old SBC days... we can only play the teams on our schedule. If we win 9 games (no matter who we play), that, in my opinion, is a SUCCESS.

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2019

22 minutes ago, Udomann said:

We are also equally good at overrating success and hand waving away failure. We really are a bit of a dichotomy of a fan base. Black and white, not a lot of gray. I guess it keeps things fun in a game where anything can happen. Just usually happens to us.

I don't know of anyone doing that.
But what are we (as fans) supposed to do whenever we (the Mean Green) crap the bed? GMG.com would not exist, and North Texas Athletics would simply fold if there was no hope of ever overcoming those failures.

I mean, I suppose we could wring our hands and demand a HC change every time we lose a game we probably should have won. Is that really a solution?

NorthTexasWeLove · November 21, 2019

19 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

My man, just like in the old SBC days... we can only play the teams on our schedule. If we win 9 games (no matter who we play), that, in my opinion, is a SUCCESS.

Definitely. It's a success. But considering who we lost to, the way we had to win some of those games vs ugly teams, and then the almost certainty of losing to quality opponents, it all sort of just leaves a bad taste.

Udomann · November 21, 2019

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

I mean, I suppose we could wring our hands and demand a HC change every time we lose a game we probably should have won. Is that really a solution?

Nope. But that's also a massive exaggeration of the conversation, and a straw man. No one demanded after a loss. No one demanded after several losses. Or blowouts. Or even now after a completely disappointing season. But I think it's entirely reasonable to expect some changes if we continue (as we have) to under perform, or should we hand wave those away too?

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2019

Just now, Udomann said:

Nope. But that's also a massive exaggeration of the conversation, and a straw man. No one demanded after a loss. No one demanded after several losses. Or blowouts. Or even now after a completely disappointing season. But I think it's entirely reasonable to expect some changes if we continue (as we have) to under perform, or should we hand wave those away too?

IF.
If 6-6 (or worse!) becomes the norm without Fine, you won't be able to drown out the calls for change.
If this season is a bump in the road and we get back up to 9+ wins on the regular (I don't care who we beat or how we lose the other games) then we're succeeding.

Hypothetical for you:
If WB had a check written to him for <$Buyout-amount> only to be used to can Littrell, and we could continue to pay the HC what we're paying Littrell now, would you want him to pull the trigger without knowing who would step in to replace him?
If your answer is "yes", there is no strawman or exaggeration at all. You're pegged.
If your answer is "no", then what are you constantly harping on Littrell for?

Udomann · November 21, 2019

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

Hypothetical for you:
If WB had a check written to him for <$Buyout-amount> only to be used to can Littrell, and we could continue to pay the HC what we're paying Littrell now, would you want him to pull the trigger without knowing who would step in to replace him?
If your answer is "yes", there is no strawman or exaggeration at all. You're pegged.
If your answer is "no", then what are you constantly harping on Littrell for?

And those are the only choices? Binary yes/no? Again, that's never the argument that was made.

If Seth is still shopping himself out to P5, then yes

If Seth refuses to shore up the deficiencies in the defense, then yes

If Seth finally steps up, commits, then makes changes for once to improve things, then no, but with caveats

If Seth continues to fold important game after important game, then yes

If Seth proves that he's the genius we all thought he was, things improve, then no

You seem to be trying to vilify as if I'm flying off the rails demanding perfection and instant firing for singular under performance. We are under performing. We have been under performing. We are continuing to underperform. I never once demanded or said we need to replace SL instantly. But we do need to fix some things. If he can't fix it, then yes. wholeheartedly yes.

But by all means, continue to simplify my arguments to fit your story.

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2019

Just now, Udomann said:

And those are the only choices? Binary yes/no? Again, that's never the argument that was made.

If Seth is still shopping himself out to P5, then yes

If Seth refuses to shore up the deficiencies in the defense, then yes

If Seth finally steps up, commits, then makes changes for once to improve things, then no, but with caveats

If Seth continues to fold important game after important game, then yes

If Seth proves that he's the genius we all thought he was, things improve, then no

You seem to be trying to vilify as if I'm flying off the rails demanding perfection and instant firing for singular under performance. We are under performing. We have been under performing. We are continuing to underperform. I never once demanded or said we need to replace SL instantly. But we do need to fix some things. If he can't fix it, then yes. wholeheartedly yes.

But by all means, continue to simplify my arguments to fit your story.

You're quacking like a duck though.

It really was a simple question. And I'm sorry it's black & white, but with all of your caveats, eventually you have to boil down the argument.
So, knowing what you know TODAY (remove the "ifs"):
If WB had a check written to him for <$Buyout-amount> only to be used to can Littrell, and we could continue to pay the HC what we're paying Littrell now, would you want him to pull the trigger without knowing who would step in to replace him?

MeanGreenHoops · November 21, 2019

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't know of anyone doing that.
But what are we (as fans) supposed to do whenever we (the Mean Green) crap the bed? GMG.com would not exist, and North Texas Athletics would simply fold if there was no hope of ever overcoming those failures.

I mean, I suppose we could wring our hands and demand a HC change every time we lose a game we probably should have won. Is that really a solution?

Yes. Are you not paying attention? Every game we win is because the other team sucks, and every game we lose is because we suck. Keep up, man.

NorthTexasWeLove · November 21, 2019

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You're quacking like a duck though.

It really was a simple question. And I'm sorry it's black & white, but with all of your caveats, eventually you have to boil down the argument.
So, knowing what you know TODAY (remove the "ifs"):
If WB had a check written to him for <$Buyout-amount> only to be used to can Littrell, and we could continue to pay the HC what we're paying Littrell now, would you want him to pull the trigger without knowing who would step in to replace him?

The easy and rational answer to this is, no.

But we are not currently trending upward. And next season has downward trend written all over it. Nonetheless, I still think we obviously hang on to SL. If next season is bad as I think it is, his ass should be walked to the ledge for the 2021 season and spartan kicked off pending results.

GreenN'walinsVet · November 21, 2019

Just now, NorthTexasWeLove said:

The easy and rational answer to this is, no.

But we are not currently trending upward. And next season has downward trend written all over it. Nonetheless, I still think we obviously hang on to SL. If next season is bad as I think it is, his ass should be walked to the ledge for the 2021 season and spartan kicked off pending results.

im not so sure next year has a downward trend to it. Yes fine is leaving, but he is leaving a .500 team at best, with yet a another record setting talent infusion coming in. Could next year be another .500 season, absolutly, but that wouldn't be a downturn.

KRAM1 · November 21, 2019

15 hours ago, 97and03 said:

I’m pretty sure we have found the new UNT90 with this guy.

You 100% certain that they are not one in the same???? Ha!

NorthTexasWeLove · November 21, 2019

7 minutes ago, GreenN'walinsVet said:

im not so sure next year has a downward trend to it. Yes fine is leaving, but he is leaving a .500 team at best, with yet a another record setting talent infusion coming in. Could next year be another .500 season, absolutly, but that wouldn't be a downturn.

Losing lot of OL and DL with no one to really step in and improve that play. Defense will be more experienced and there is nowhere to really go but up, but again if the scheme/philosophy doesn't change expect more of the same with a slight improvement. It only makes sense for the offense to actually see a drop off with an all conference caliber quarterback departing.

The downward trend is kind of there staring at us. But, hey, I like to be optimistic at times too.

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2019

15 minutes ago, GreenN'walinsVet said:

im not so sure next year has a downward trend to it. Yes fine is leaving, but he is leaving a .500 team at best, with yet a another record setting talent infusion coming in. Could next year be another .500 season, absolutly, but that wouldn't be a downturn.

Let it be known that I believe back-to-back .500 seasons (after skyrocketing to back-to-back 9-win seasons) would be a "downturn"

NorthTexasWeLove · November 21, 2019

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

Let it be known that I believe back-to-back .500 seasons (after skyrocketing to back-to-back 9-win seasons) would be a "downturn"

Who is to say we even get to .500 next season when we may not even get to it this season. You're assuming quite a bit.

Udomann · November 21, 2019

37 minutes ago, KRAM1 said:

You 100% certain that they are not one in the same???? Ha!

oh trust me, I am not he. I'm don't drink that much.

I'm my own slice of sunshine.

Udomann · November 21, 2019

3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You're quacking like a duck though.

It really was a simple question. And I'm sorry it's black & white, but with all of your caveats, eventually you have to boil down the argument.
So, knowing what you know TODAY (remove the "ifs"):
If WB had a check written to him for <$Buyout-amount> only to be used to can Littrell, and we could continue to pay the HC what we're paying Littrell now, would you want him to pull the trigger without knowing who would step in to replace him?

That's bait. And never even the question or the argument made. You are trying to spring a trap to invalidate any discussion points made before, even if that wasn't even the point being made, so I'm not stepping in it to validate your own pride against an argument you made up.

I have not to this point said SL needs to be replaced. I have drawn hints that maybe he should be if he cannot improve this program. I have said we need to replace Reffett. And Reeder is on thin ice as a first year.

FirefightnRick · November 21, 2019

5 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I'm happy to report that your hindsight appears to be 20/20 Silver!
The game was competitive (7-14) until Fine went out the first time.

No....the game was over from the first play when they hit us on a 75 yard wheel route for 6, and our defense were all looking at each other like it’s everyone else’s fault,....confirming several of our fans greatest fear from the week before while reading about the coaches convention in New York and the K State bullshit,....that this was going to be another unprepared team.

And it was.

My only regret was that I didn’t walk to the car and head back to Texas then.

Rick