Remember ULM

Hunter Green · October 14, 2019

This current state reminds me of our loss to ULM in Dickey's (fourth?) year which made us 0-1 to start conference. We we screaming for Dickeys head and when we we're 21 point underdogs to Muts, we pulled the upset at Fouts and proceeded to run off 26 conference games and four conference championships in a row. Don't give up fellers. It's always darkest before the dawn and we have a lot of games left and a lot can happen between now and the end of the season.

Never give up. Never quit.

GO MEAN GREEN!

Salsa_Verde · October 14, 2019

I have never worried about the hardcore fans. If you take time out of your day to post I on here you’re above a casual fan. It’s the casual fan that we are losing. I think we can win against MTSU...it’s going to be ugly on the field and in the stands though.

NorthTexasSportsNetwork · October 14, 2019

Just now, Salsa_Verde said:

I have never worried about the hardcore fans. If you take time out of your day to post I on here you’re above a casual fan. It’s the casual fan that we are losing. I think we can win against MTSU...it’s going to be ugly on the field and in the stands though.

Yeah same. I was so heated Saturday, but I have a good feeling that we can beat MTSU!

Pavlovs Eagle · October 14, 2019

Hopefully Stone Cold Coach Mumbles and staff took a time out from their sulking today to watch the MTSU at FAU highlights from yesterday. Looks like O'Hara likes to throw bombs into coverage. FAU had a number of picks and appeared to just barely miss a few more.

North Texas would have to have a man on the MTSU receivers though, which after last night appears to be a foreign concept.

FirefightnRick · October 14, 2019

1 hour ago, Hunter Green said:

This current state reminds me of our loss to ULM in Dickey's (fourth?) year which made us 0-1 to start conference. We we screaming for Dickeys head and when we we're 21 point underdogs to Muts, we pulled the upset at Fouts and proceeded to run off 26 conference games and four conference championships in a row. Don't give up fellers. It's always darkest before the dawn and we have a lot of games left and a lot can happen between now and the end of the season.

Never give up. Never quit.

GO MEAN GREEN!

I was at Malone that night. We lost 17-19. But this current state doesn’t remind me of that one because back then we still at least had a decent defense that despite playing three Big 12 opponents and an 8-3 South Florida team was showing signs of improvement.

That year we held TCU to 19 points. Then we held an 11-2 Oklahoma team coming off a 13-0 National Championship to 37 points in Norman. By the time conference got here it was Men vs boys for us as we held our conference mates to less than 18 points per game.

I’ve seen nothing by our current defense that remotely resembles the ‘01 defense.

Rick

Edited October 14, 2019 by FirefightnRick

UNTLifer · October 14, 2019

I agree and a dose of reality regarding this year.

1. We lost one of our starting WR’s and all conference performer to an ill advised entry in to the NFL draft.

2. We lost our leading WR early in the third game this year to a torn ACL.

3. Our returning starter at TE has been effectively out all year with a mystery injury.

4. We had to replace both starting OT’s. One is a grad transfer that is better suited as a guard and the other is undersized.

5. We are starting two excellent but very young and inexperienced players at outside WR.

6. We lost both starting LB’s to graduation and they are replaced with two converted safeties/nickel backs. They are good but have to have a DL that can let them roam free to be effective.

7. We have limited depth on the DL.

8. Our starting CB’s are replacing all conference performers. Johnson is young and had the potential to be great by the time he is done. The other is a grad transfer that isn’t living up to the hype. The loss of Roberts hurt as he was a good young corner. Our future at this position are true freshmen in Gaddy and Norris and they could be special.

9. Our safeties have played well but I think the future holds even better players with Morris and the freshman from Pearland.

10. SL’s coaching staffs have been raided the last two years Cobbs and Mayes appear to be great replacements, but the jury is still out in Reeder and Jennings. Our DB’s aren’t showing development and hiring any defensive coach from Texas Tech is a gamble. Langston hasn’t really developed anyone and our OL is not improving. IMHO, he should be replaced.

@BillySee58 has hit the nail on the head. Littrell caught lightening in a bottle by finding Fine, and hit in his first class on Bussey a a few others but the next two classes haven’t produced. I blame a lot of this on SL having to cultivate relationships with the high school coaches across the state, something McCarney and staff neglected. The last two classes and our current class are reflecting the results of this work in addition to the investment in the program and facilities by the administration. Next year may be rough as well but the future is in our underclassmen. We have to hold on to our current commits and either get highly rated JUCO’s or grad transfers to help along both lines. It doesn’t matter who follows Fine, they will be unjustly held to crazy expectations. I think Bean is an incredible athlete that may be better suited at WR. Aune’s age and maturity may be the bridge to Renfro as he gets settled on campus and matures.

Running SL out the door is not the thing to do at this point. He has changed the entire culture of this program. Sure, the flirtations with K State may have hurt, but I think he will be with us for the next four or five years. This program will truly be all his and reflect his true abilities. Many think he needs to rant and rave up and down the sideline to be more effective, but I disagree. I like his demeanor, the expectations he has of this staff and this program and believe he is the right man for the job but we are about to hit a couple lean years before this program really takes off. The early success and Fine’s success under SL and Harrell sped up our expectations. Many of us mention the success Patterson has had at TCU. Well, he had a couple lean years along the way as he built the program he has now. We will be fine, but this year hurts because the expectations, potentially unrealistic, were so high.

PlummMeanGreen · October 14, 2019

6 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I agree and a dose of reality regarding this year.

1. We lost one of our starting WR’s and all conference performer to an ill advised entry in to the NFL draft.

2. We lost our leading WR early in the third game this year to a torn ACL.

3. Our returning starter at TE has been effectively out all year with a mystery injury.

4. We had to replace both starting OT’s. One is a grad transfer that is better suited as a guard and the other is undersized.

5. We are starting two excellent but very young and inexperienced players at outside WR.

6. We lost both starting LB’s to graduation and they are replaced with two converted safeties/nickel backs. They are good but have to have a DL that can let them roam free to be effective.

7. We have limited depth on the DL.

8. Our starting CB’s are replacing all conference performers. Johnson is young and had the potential to be great by the time he is done. The other is a grad transfer that isn’t living up to the hype. The loss of Roberts hurt as he was a good young corner. Our future at this position are true freshmen in Gaddy and Norris and they could be special.

9. Our safeties have played well but I think the future holds even better players with Morris and the freshman from Pearland.

10. SL’s coaching staffs have been raided the last two years Cobbs and Mayes appear to be great replacements, but the jury is still out in Reeder and Jennings. Our DB’s aren’t showing development and hiring any defensive coach from Texas Tech is a gamble. Langston hasn’t really developed anyone and our OL is not improving. IMHO, he should be replaced.

@BillySee58 has hit the nail on the head. Littrell caught lightening in a bottle by finding Fine, and hit in his first class on Bussey a a few others but the next two classes haven’t produced. I blame a lot of this on SL having to cultivate relationships with the high school coaches across the state, something McCarney and staff neglected. The last two classes and our current class are reflecting the results of this work in addition to the investment in the program and facilities by the administration. Next year may be rough as well but the future is in our underclassmen. We have to hold on to our current commits and either get highly rated JUCO’s or grad transfers to help along both lines. It doesn’t matter who follows Fine, they will be unjustly held to crazy expectations. I think Bean is an incredible athlete that may be better suited at WR. Aune’s age and maturity may be the bridge to Renfro as he gets settled on campus and matures.

Running SL out the door is not the thing to do at this point. He has changed the entire culture of this program. Sure, the flirtations with K State may have hurt, but I think he will be with us for the next four or five years. This program will truly be all his and reflect his true abilities. Many think he needs to rant and rave up and down the sideline to be more effective, but I disagree. I like his demeanor, the expectations he has of this staff and this program and believe he is the right man for the job but we are about to hit a couple lean years before this program really takes off. The early success and Fine’s success under SL and Harrell sped up our expectations. Many of us mention the success Patterson has had at TCU. Well, he had a couple lean years along the way as he built the program he has now. We will be fine, but this year hurts because the expectations, potentially unrealistic, were so high.

A superb post, UNTLifer.👍👍 Pretty well summarizes exactly what our situation is in Denton & why.

✅ First of all, we’re demanding our football program go to the next level, but will our fan base do the same by showing up this Saturday afternoon at Apogee or do we regress back to our OldDenton ways of decades past as in......No previous week win =‘s Fans no show?

✅ Secondly.....Yes, many of our expectations were unrealistically high & then we began to lose key pieces to this year’s team along the way which we could ill afford to do with this group.

See y’all at Apogee this Saturday afternoon, GMG diehards, because it’s our school & our team. If we don’t show up who’ll take our place?

GMG!

Edited October 14, 2019 by PlummMeanGreen

southsideguy · October 14, 2019

8 hours ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

Hopefully Stone Cold Coach Mumbles and staff took a time out from their sulking today to watch the MTSU at FAU highlights from yesterday. Looks like O'Hara likes to throw bombs into coverage. FAU had a number of picks and appeared to just barely miss a few more.

North Texas would have to have a man on the MTSU receivers though, which after last night appears to be a foreign concept.

Key word into coverage, that means our guys need to be covering their receivers this game. We have not done it all season.

GrandGreen · October 14, 2019

Everyone seems to assume that Fine and Siggers will be back on Saturday. That is still an unknown as far as I know.

Injuries have killed NT this year. A reality not an excuse that some love to rail about.

I am afraid that darkness before the dawn may continue through next year. Assuming Fine is able to play at somewhere near 75%, NT should win their home games and be competitive away.

Next year, NT loses a lot of starters and I think NT will struggle. The year after, Littrell's best recruiting classes should kick in, and NT could start to dominate the league.

Pavlovs Eagle · October 14, 2019

40 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

The year after, Littrell's best recruiting classes should kick in, and NT could start to dominate the league.

If only there was another FBS program in DFW that appears to have written the book on how to totally reverse the downward trajectory of a program in a single season through recruiting... I'm sure there's nothing to learn there.

Oh well, hope the ticket office can work with "Hang in there, 2021 Season will be awesome!"

dumb and dumber idk GIF

ADLER · October 14, 2019

14 hours ago, Hunter Green said:

This current state reminds me of our loss to ULM in Dickey's (fourth?) year which made us 0-1 to start conference. We we screaming for Dickeys head and when we we're 21 point underdogs to Muts, we pulled the upset at Fouts and proceeded to run off 26 conference games and four conference championships in a row. Don't give up fellers. It's always darkest before the dawn and we have a lot of games left and a lot can happen between now and the end of the season.

Never give up. Never quit.

GO MEAN GREEN!

I was there. Couldn't have been a worse feeling.

We were 0-4 going in to that game, and had just gotten our butts kicked by some startup 1AA school in Tampa.

ULM was also 0-4, but their putrid football program was the least of their problems. The Sun Belt wouldn't accept them as a member and they remained full members of the Southland Conference for all other sports. Their school was in the process of losing their accreditation with the Southern Association of Colleges, which would make their degrees virtually worthless. The cloud of malaise was thick in Monroe, and although 7000 were reported to be at that game the stark reality was about one tenth that figure.

Darrell Dickey had perfected his dead opossum offense by this time; don't ever snap the ball until the final second, run on first and second down, run the draw on third and long, ... punt. Run the clock, and don't do anything that could possibly make it stop. Keep the score close, and then try to score in the last moments of the game to try to make the score look respectable, and maybe, on rare occasion, possibly win.

Well, like always, we lost. Final score was 17 - 19. The dozens of ULM fans celebrated the victory and we again were able to only celebrate 'winning the time of possession'. The bus ride from Monroe to Denton was miserable.

It sucked. It was horrible. Our team was stuck with a coach that simply wouldn't take a risk on anything. Fans were raising money to let a chimpanzee pick plays from a bag. How could the results possibly be worse? Was football at North Texas really worth saving?

Then along came Middle Tennessee State. They were some unknown recent move-up school, 5 - 0 including a win over Vanderbilt, and they were favored to destroy us on our home field at our homecoming. They were "SEXY", they were already touting Heisman candidates, and they, along with their legion of obnoxious fans, were instantly far too good for the new Sun Belt Conference.

The first half was a low scoring affair with the Blue Raiders high octane offense miraculously kept in check.

Then, to open the second half Dickey did something totally out of character, he threw caution to the wind and decided to not just lose gracefully. He kicked an onside kick. The Middle Tennessee team was taken totally by surprise, the North Texas fans were taken totally by surprise, and the resulting victory took the new Sun Belt Conference totally by surprise. Dickey went on to win 26 straight conference games and secure a position in the North Texas Hall of Fame.

The moral of this long story: Things can get really bad at times, but there's nothing that can't be cured by kicking the crap out of Middle Tennessee.

Edited October 14, 2019 by ADLER

GrandGreen · October 14, 2019

3 hours ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

If only there was another FBS program in DFW that appears to have written the book on how to totally reverse the downward trajectory of a program in a single season through recruiting... I'm sure there's nothing to learn there.

Oh well, hope the ticket office can work with "Hang in there, 2021 Season will be awesome!"

Why do you think graduate transfers are the answer?

NT has to beat out a lot of schools for the good ones. Not to mention NT has few ships non-committed

There is no magic in graduate transfers, if anything NT is at a bigger disadvantage in this type of recruiting than high school

The perceived merit of an university's grad. school is a big factor here.

SMU's business grad school is USA Today rated 43 in the nation, NT is unranked.

Meaning NT is not ranked in the top 131 business schools, the lowest rating.

I doubt any NT grad program is rated any higher than the business school.

Very frankly, a masters from SMU is on average will get you a starting salary thousands of dollars more than the same degree at NT. NT repeating the success of SMU in graduate transfer recruiting is just not going to happen.

Add on for those confused; why not inquire about what you are confused about? Adding an emoji is not going to clarify anything.

Edited October 14, 2019 by GrandGreen

UNTLifer · October 14, 2019

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Next year, NT loses a lot of starters and I think NT will struggle.

Off of the two deep, we lose the following:

QB: Fine. (nothing else needs to be said here)

RB: Easly; relegated to mop up duty this year.

WR: Lawrence and possibly Bussey Jr.

OL: Plantin, Woodworth, Preston, S. Mose (Need to pull in some help here from either the TP or JUCO ranks)

TE: Smith (been injured all year)

DL: Hamilton, English, Sa'afi (Need to go TP or JUCO here as well)

LB: King and LeMasters

CB: Harvey

Nickel: Moore

S: Muhammad and Robinson but I like Morris and Sanders

This biggest issue is finding Fine's replacement and the lines. With the state of CUSA, we could be right in the hunt if some of our youngsters step up. The majority of our talent is in the sophmore or freshman year.

untbowler · October 14, 2019

Just now, GrandGreen said:

Why do you think graduate transfers are the answer?

NT has to beat out a lot of schools for the good ones. Not to mention NT has few ships non-committed

There is no magic in graduate transfers, if anything NT is at a bigger disadvantage in this type of recruiting than high school

The perceived merit of an university's grad. school is a big factor here.

SMU's business grad school is USA Today rated 43 in the nation, NT is unranked.

Meaning NT is not ranked in the top 131 business schools, the lowest rating.

I doubt any NT grad program is rated any higher than the business school.

MPA Program is one of the Top in the Country year in and year out

Mo Green · October 14, 2019

Coaching is the answer.

lots of us watched when we had far less players & gave the P5 schools all they could handle when we were in the 'belt.

UNTLifer · October 14, 2019

15 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Why do you think graduate transfers are the answer?

NT has to beat out a lot of schools for the good ones. Not to mention NT has few ships non-committed

There is no magic in graduate transfers, if anything NT is at a bigger disadvantage in this type of recruiting than high school

The perceived merit of an university's grad. school is a big factor here.

SMU's business grad school is USA Today rated 43 in the nation, NT is unranked.

Meaning NT is not ranked in the top 131 business schools, the lowest rating.

I doubt any NT grad program is rated any higher than the business school.

Very frankly, a masters from SMU is on average will get you a starting salary thousands of dollars more than the same degree at NT. NT repeating the success of SMU in graduate transfer recruiting is just not going to happen.

https://www.unt.edu/rankings/college-business

GrandGreen · October 14, 2019

3 minutes ago, untbowler said:

MPA Program is one of the Top in the Country year in and year out

Ok, but I really don't think that is a great recruiting advantage.

The point is that NT can't even hope to match SMU's success with grad transfers. Some seem to think that NT can just look at the transfer portal and fill out the roster with good players.

My point is that is much more difficult for NT to compete for graduate transfers than high schoolers.

Some seem to think that NT just doesn't recruit grads. Do they think NT just passed on the best grads, to sign some borderline transfers?

NorthTexasWeLove · October 14, 2019

5 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Ok, but I really don't think that is a great recruiting advantage.

The point is that NT can't even hope to match SMU's success with grad transfers. Some seem to think that NT can just look at the transfer portal and fill out the roster with good players.

My point is that is much more difficult for NT to compete for graduate transfers than high schoolers.

Some seem to think that NT just doesn't recruit grads. Do they think NT just passed on the best grads, to sign some borderline transfers?

Excuses.

GrandGreen · October 14, 2019

Just now, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Excuses.

You are an one trick pony. Make an argument, if you actually believe something. It is not that difficult.

El Paso Eagle · October 14, 2019

11 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I agree and a dose of reality regarding this year.

1. We lost one of our starting WR’s and all conference performer to an ill advised entry in to the NFL draft.

2. We lost our leading WR early in the third game this year to a torn ACL.

3. Our returning starter at TE has been effectively out all year with a mystery injury.

4. We had to replace both starting OT’s. One is a grad transfer that is better suited as a guard and the other is undersized.

5. We are starting two excellent but very young and inexperienced players at outside WR.

6. We lost both starting LB’s to graduation and they are replaced with two converted safeties/nickel backs. They are good but have to have a DL that can let them roam free to be effective.

7. We have limited depth on the DL.

8. Our starting CB’s are replacing all conference performers. Johnson is young and had the potential to be great by the time he is done. The other is a grad transfer that isn’t living up to the hype. The loss of Roberts hurt as he was a good young corner. Our future at this position are true freshmen in Gaddy and Norris and they could be special.

9. Our safeties have played well but I think the future holds even better players with Morris and the freshman from Pearland.

10. SL’s coaching staffs have been raided the last two years Cobbs and Mayes appear to be great replacements, but the jury is still out in Reeder and Jennings. Our DB’s aren’t showing development and hiring any defensive coach from Texas Tech is a gamble. Langston hasn’t really developed anyone and our OL is not improving. IMHO, he should be replaced.

@BillySee58 has hit the nail on the head. Littrell caught lightening in a bottle by finding Fine, and hit in his first class on Bussey a a few others but the next two classes haven’t produced. I blame a lot of this on SL having to cultivate relationships with the high school coaches across the state, something McCarney and staff neglected. The last two classes and our current class are reflecting the results of this work in addition to the investment in the program and facilities by the administration. Next year may be rough as well but the future is in our underclassmen. We have to hold on to our current commits and either get highly rated JUCO’s or grad transfers to help along both lines. It doesn’t matter who follows Fine, they will be unjustly held to crazy expectations. I think Bean is an incredible athlete that may be better suited at WR. Aune’s age and maturity may be the bridge to Renfro as he gets settled on campus and matures.

Running SL out the door is not the thing to do at this point. He has changed the entire culture of this program. Sure, the flirtations with K State may have hurt, but I think he will be with us for the next four or five years. This program will truly be all his and reflect his true abilities. Many think he needs to rant and rave up and down the sideline to be more effective, but I disagree. I like his demeanor, the expectations he has of this staff and this program and believe he is the right man for the job but we are about to hit a couple lean years before this program really takes off. The early success and Fine’s success under SL and Harrell sped up our expectations. Many of us mention the success Patterson has had at TCU. Well, he had a couple lean years along the way as he built the program he has now. We will be fine, but this year hurts because the expectations, potentially unrealistic, were so high.

Great comments. I think the green kool aid was spiked after the back to back 9 win seasons. We thought that was the new normal, forgetting that shit happens

El Paso Eagle · October 14, 2019

55 minutes ago, Mo Green said:

Coaching is the answer.

lots of us watched when we had far less players & gave the P5 schools all they could handle when we were in the 'belt.

Do you remember our out of conference records?

NorthTexasWeLove · October 14, 2019

38 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

You are an one trick pony. Make an argument, if you actually believe something. It is not that difficult.

I read an interesting article some months ago, maybe even last year. It stated that only (going off memory) 19% of grad transfers actually leave X university with grad degree after playing.

So, your reasoning = excuse.

Philip Ferguson · October 14, 2019

A winning streak always begins after a loss - GMG

Pavlovs Eagle · October 14, 2019

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Why do you think graduate transfers are the answer?

NT has to beat out a lot of schools for the good ones. Not to mention NT has few ships non-committed

There is no magic in graduate transfers, if anything NT is at a bigger disadvantage in this type of recruiting than high school

The perceived merit of an university's grad. school is a big factor here.

SMU's business grad school is USA Today rated 43 in the nation, NT is unranked.

Meaning NT is not ranked in the top 131 business schools, the lowest rating.

I doubt any NT grad program is rated any higher than the business school.

Very frankly, a masters from SMU is on average will get you a starting salary thousands of dollars more than the same degree at NT. NT repeating the success of SMU in graduate transfer recruiting is just not going to happen.

Grad Transfers are actually in it to get graduate degrees? All these years I understood it to be an opportunity to get one more year of stats to try to get in the Draft.

You hear interviews from recent former NCAA athletes that had a "Graduate Degree" year and they'll openly say they literally never went to class.

greenminer · October 14, 2019

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Ok, but I really don't think that is a great recruiting advantage.

The point is that NT can't even hope to match SMU's success with grad transfers. Some seem to think that NT can just look at the transfer portal and fill out the roster with good players.

My point is that is much more difficult for NT to compete for graduate transfers than high schoolers.

Some seem to think that NT just doesn't recruit grads. Do they think NT just passed on the best grads, to sign some borderline transfers?

Players get one year to play wherever they want. I’m of the unproven opinion that the quality of the actual grad school is very far down the list of qualifications for the majority of those guys.

they just want to find a place they can have fun and win for one more year.