attendance

MeanGreen22 · October 20, 2019

1 hour ago, Mean Green Matt said:

This really isn't the type of attitude that is going to get us to the next level. Every team loses games. If we are trying to move up, we don't have the luxury of being a "two losses in a row, I've lost interest" fan base.

Yuppp. As weird as this sounds, this fan base is entitled. “We won 9 games

the last 2 years. If we don’t at least win a bowl and get in the top 25 I’m selling my club seats!” Progress isn’t linear. Sometimes it takes awkward bumps and bruises.

CMJ · October 20, 2019

I think the issue is the blowout losses more than just losses. If we'd lost to SMU and Houston by a TD or less, I don't think the crowds would have diminished THAT much. Sure we'd have had less fans at the game today, but it would have been way more than the 10K or less figure that most of the folks on the board estimate.

Edited October 20, 2019 by CMJ

Mean Green Matt · October 20, 2019

2 minutes ago, Travis said:

We have to give fans a reason to come out to games. We don’t have the luxury of losing and still having a fan base that will continue to come... yet.
Therefore, we gotta show something more. Also, these losses of ours aren’t just losses. They are really beating us badly.
if we want butts in the seats, we have to give them a show. The fans aren’t under any obligation to be there.... that’s up to the program for that.

Disagree. Fans are part of the program. If we had a fan base that showed up no matter what we wouldn’t be in CUSA right now. We have a part to play in all of this.

MeanGreen22 · October 20, 2019

9 minutes ago, CMJ said:

I think the issue is the blowout losses more than just losses. If we'd lost to SMU and Houston by a TD or less, I don't think the crowds would have diminished THAT much. Sure we'd have had less fans at the game today, but it would have been way more than the 10K or less figure that most of the folks on the board estimate.

While true, we need to be honest with ourselves. SMU and Houston are on a different plane than us. Getting whacked by SoMiss is vastly different than Houston. This win against MTSU is a step in the right direction for the year. This team is an above average CUSA team. As long as we treat them as such, we’ll be okay with the year.

All About UNT · October 20, 2019

8 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Our fans are a joke.

Where were you?

All About UNT · October 20, 2019

20 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Disagree. Fans are part of the program. If we had a fan base that showed up no matter what we wouldn’t be in CUSA right now. We have a part to play in all of this.

Not to practice WhatAboutIsm but didn't SMU have a half-filled stadium for a crucial game while being ranked today? They are clearly in a conference above us that we would surely put more butts in the seats for any one of their conference games...regardless of our record. Clearly the conferences don't care about attendance as much as "pedigree".

Pavlovs Eagle · October 20, 2019

43 minutes ago, MeanGreen22 said:

If we don’t at least win a bowl and get in the top 25 I’m selling my club seats!”

As someone who actually pays full boat for Club seats, I'm begining to think few in the Club actually pay for the seats and that there's some sort of program, that wasn't extended to me, where people are getting absurdly discounted seats.

Not sure if each suite also has 10+ club level seats attached to it or if the AD just holds a bunch for people who never show. The club sections near me have had consistent empty seats for the past few seasons and when you call the ticket office, they'll tell you they're not available for single games to buy.

I've talked to a number of professors and Dept Deans/Assoc Dean/Etc while eating. Maybe they all get half price club seats with no MGSF contribution required.

The group in front of me has multiple pairs of seats totalling at least $7500 a year if I'm to assume I know what at least one set in my section costs. There's no doubt in my mind they aren't paying that much for seats.

Anyways... Thanks for attending my rambling about my Club Level Seats Conspiracy.

This team still isn't that good and our AD probably should fire people.

Thx.

Rudy · October 20, 2019

I blame lucky

Mean Green Matt · October 20, 2019

7 hours ago, All About UNT said:

Not to practice WhatAboutIsm but didn't SMU have a half-filled stadium for a crucial game while being ranked today? They are clearly in a conference above us that we would surely put more butts in the seats for any one of their conference games...regardless of our record. Clearly the conferences don't care about attendance as much as "pedigree".

Let’s just for a second assume our fan base had TAMU levels of commitment and pride. Actually, not even that much, just something of that type. Pair that with our sheer number of people (ignoring any casual fans). We could be putting in 50k a game. Every game. If we were doing that do you really think we would be stuck in CUSA?

Most people would give CUSA as a reason we can’t do that. And that attitude is why we are where we are. The “this team deserves that crowd” attitude is not helpful.

meangreenbob · October 20, 2019

12 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Let’s just for a second assume our fan base had TAMU levels of commitment and pride. Actually, not even that much, just something of that type. Pair that with our sheer number of people (ignoring any casual fans). We could be putting in 50k a game. Every game. If we were doing that do you really think we would be stuck in CUSA?

Most people would give CUSA as a reason we can’t do that. And that attitude is why we are where we are. The “this team deserves that crowd” attitude is not helpful.

Agree

Edited October 20, 2019 by meangreenbob

MeanGreen2019 · October 20, 2019

Just now, meangreenbob said:

Agree.

We had over 30,000 for the Houston game. Two teams that were struggling and not off to a good start for the season. Most of those fans were UNT fans. We had 30,000 for a conference game against LaTech last year. A conference which is perceived as the worse in G5.

Win and they will come. Win long enough and they will get hooked

This

PlummMeanGreen · October 20, 2019

14 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

I walked over to where the green model T is on the concourse & perused the entire Apogee crowd at half time.

•This: If you put all of the Student Section (with Band) & all in the upper/lower End Zone fans on the Press Box Side it would have been full. ➡️ What we did have was “LOUD” according to theradio boys.

How many seats does the entire Press Box Side hold is what our butts in seats count was today. (They also count no shows with prior ticket purchases, too).

GMG!

Students must have voted not to show up today & only 3 weeks ago UNT had a record-breaking 11,209 UNT students for the UH game. Go figure.🤔

I reiterate the above.

If the Press Box Side “only” holds 8K then what some of you projected as our crowd would be accurate, but methinks the Press Box Side (with all the “Hub” crowd drinking cocktails the whole game whose faces we cannot see) just holds much, much more than 8K—don’t you think?

Watched a replay of the game & thought if only half the record-breaking Freshmen Class had shown with a guest then there would have been your 8K alone.

I winced when I saw that side of Apogee on the replay. ✅ If only “Stadium” TV cameras could broadcast from the Student Section then the TV audience could see we did have a representable crowd on the west side & for a team with no momentum, star players hurt or crippled & a MG team that was 2-4 at the beginning of the MUTS game.

⚾️ I’m with some of you, though, as far as a 3 o’clock kick is concerned. For a working class student body many at their jobs that time of day & UNT-affiliated soccer moms chasing down their kids all over the Metroplex at 3:00 pm that time of day really hurt our attendance. 👌A 5:30 pm kickoff would be much, much better for our fan base. Just my .02.

GMG!

Edited October 20, 2019 by PlummMeanGreen

meangreenbob · October 20, 2019

We are no different than the other G5 programs. We are all struggling for fan support which can be verified by butts in the seats. But human nature has a strong desire to be associated with winners. That’s just a fact. If any of these programs win, many programs will experience an increase in attendance but once the winning is over the fans are gone. BUT win “long enough” and you can get the fans hooked and so when the program does experience somewhat of a down year the attendance will only experience a slight drop off because the fans will trust that it is only temporary and that the administration and coaching staff are only reloading for another extended run of winning seasons.

Edited October 20, 2019 by meangreenbob

Travis · October 20, 2019

9 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Disagree. Fans are part of the program. If we had a fan base that showed up no matter what we wouldn’t be in CUSA right now. We have a part to play in all of this.

You disagree? So they are obligated to be at a sporting event? Nah. That’s not how this works. Thankfully.

Mean Green Matt · October 20, 2019

15 minutes ago, Travis said:

You disagree? So they are obligated to be at a sporting event? Nah. That’s not how this works. Thankfully.

Obligated is your word. Not mine.

Mean Green Matt · October 20, 2019

18 minutes ago, Travis said:

You disagree? So they are obligated to be at a sporting event? Nah. That’s not how this works. Thankfully.

This is college sports. It is a little different than just being a product for consumption. No one donates money to the Dallas Cowboys over and above what it costs to go to the games. The connection is different and the reaction from our fan base should not be “well the team lost badly the last couple games, I don’t care anymore”. The reason this program is where it is is just as much our fault as it is the people that actually work for the athletic department.

Travis · October 20, 2019

31 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Obligated is your word. Not mine.

Yes. I used the word that no one should be obligated to go to games to which you said you disagree. We vote with our time and money. If they put a poor performance out there, I can understand why people will use both elsewhere. To suggest otherwise is both humorous and sad.
we don’t have a program where people show up regardless.... honestly, every program still has this problem. Look at TCU.
The responsibility of this program is on the department alone. It is purely a product for consumption. Again, to suggest we have some sort of responsibility to it is quite amusing to me.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Travis

PlummMeanGreen · October 20, 2019

And a Big 12 TCU has laid a few rotten eggs in the stands even with a Big 12 opponent. There are a few ACS photos floating around of that for proof, too.

One thing SMU & TCU will never do is have 11,209 students at any game as North Texas did a few short weeks ago. (Obviously, since their enrollments are around 10K at each campus).

• Ignoring this forum’s propensity to dwell on mostly the negative (while seemingly enjoying it); as well as kicking our Athletic program in the scrotum at the drop of any balls; well. we do have things we can build on in Denton.

Still...in a major league sports market like the North Texas Metroplex ➡️ YOU HAVE TO HAVE WINNING SEASONS “EVERY SEASON” & YOU MUST BEAT A FEW P5 KNOWN ENTITIES EVER SO OFTEN, TOO. If we get back on the roller coaster of the last 50 years then problems will persist.

GMG!

Edited October 20, 2019 by PlummMeanGreen

Mean Green Matt · October 20, 2019

20 minutes ago, Travis said:

Yes. I used the word that no one should be obligated to go to games to which you said you disagree. We vote with our time and money. If they put a poor performance out there, I can understand why people will use both otherwise. To suggest otherwise is both humorous and sad.
we don’t have a program where people show up regardless.... honestly, every program still has this problem. Look at TCU.
The responsibility of this program is on the department alone. It is purely a product for consumption. Again, to suggest we have some sort of responsibility to it is quite amusing to me.

And I find the idea that alumni and fans don’t play a part in this to be more than quite amusing.

Green Lantern · October 20, 2019

10 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Yuppp. As weird as this sounds, this fan base is entitled. “We won 9 games

the last 2 years. If we don’t at least win a bowl and get in the top 25 I’m selling my club seats!” Progress isn’t linear. Sometimes it takes awkward bumps and bruises.

Could not disagree more. This is one of the least entitled fan bases you’ll run across. For most of UNT’s history, we’ve been pretty horrid. It’s fairly remarkable we’ve amassed the fan base we have given our ridiculous administrative decisions and inept output on the field. Our fan base is filled with masochists when you really think about it.

Now if you wanna say the casuals are fickle because everyone is starved for a level of consistent success, I’d agree.

Travis · October 20, 2019

Just now, Mean Green Matt said:

And I find the idea that alumni and fans don’t play a part in this to be more than quite amusing.

Then you will be forever frustrated and, by all means, go that way if you choose to. I think that is the sad part. I want you to be happy Matty! But we don’t live in a place where are have to do anything with our leisure - otherwise it wouldn’t be leisure.
Since we vote with our time and dollar, if a product is unacceptable, I understand why people will go elsewhere. And if there comes a point where I feel that, I will disappointedly go that way too.
I choose to still be at the games (when I am in Texas) or watch them here from Idaho and I don’t miss games. But, I also understand the value of consent and that if a program wants a big followership, they gotta make it worth the peoples while.

It appears that most of society sees it that way too for college sports as we dont live in a forced society - unless it involves taxes, drugs, wars, surveilling our own people, protecting bad cops, or having to get the governments permission to marry, drive, fish, collect rain water, run a business, build on your property, have a lemonade stand, what I can smoke or vape, or which kind of straws I can use.

TheTastyGreek · October 20, 2019

10 hours ago, All About UNT said:

Where were you?

14 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Is there anywhere to catch a replay of the game? Second half to be specific. I had a birthday dinner to attend and missed the second half. I was following on ESPN Gamecast until I got busted by my wife.

Mean Green Matt · October 20, 2019

3 minutes ago, Travis said:

Then you will be forever frustrated and, by all means, go that way if you choose to. I think that is the sad part. I want you to be happy Matty! But we don’t live in a place where are have to do anything with our leisure - otherwise it wouldn’t be leisure.
Since we vote with our time and dollar, if a product is unacceptable, I understand why people will go elsewhere. And if there comes a point where I feel that, I will disappointedly go that way too.
I choose to still be at the games (when I am in Texas) or watch them here from Idaho and I don’t miss games. But, I also understand the value of consent and that if a program wants a big followership, they gotta make it worth the peoples while.

It appears that most of society sees it that way too for college sports as we dont live in a forced society - unless it involves taxes, drugs, wars, surveilling our own people, protecting bad cops, or having to get the governments permission to marry, drive, fish, collect rain water, run a business, build on your property, have a lemonade stand, what I can smoke or vape, or which kind of straws I can use.

Well, Travy, your bizarre rant about being forced to go to games (which only you have brought up) continues to miss the point.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about whether significant fan support can pull a program out of the doldrums. It most certainly can and we have the numbers to do it. We just don’t. And if the attitude is that anytime we play a couple of bad games that this team deserves 5,000 people in the stands, we never will.

meangreenbob · October 20, 2019

Keep this in mind. In my 48 years of following UNT football it’s only truly been about 4 years since the Administration under Dr. Smatresk along with the Board made an honest, sincere and legit commitment to Athletics at UNT. We have witnessed two crowds over 30,000 at our on campus stadium. Over 11,000 students at one game. An incredible IPF. The salary of the head football coach being the highest in the conference and near the top in the G5. (Open for discussion concerning the wisdom here) Anyway, what I’m saying is though we have been playing Football for 100 years we might say we are relatively a new program. Keeping that in mind think what we have accomplished in the last four years and what we are truly capable of achieving if we put our minds and talents together.

Edited October 20, 2019 by meangreenbob

Cerebus · October 20, 2019

10 hours ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

As someone who actually pays full boat for Club seats, I'm begining to think few in the Club actually pay for the seats and that there's some sort of program, that wasn't extended to me, where people are getting absurdly discounted seats.

Not sure if each suite also has 10+ club level seats attached to it or if the AD just holds a bunch for people who never show. The club sections near me have had consistent empty seats for the past few seasons and when you call the ticket office, they'll tell you they're not available for single games to buy.

I've talked to a number of professors and Dept Deans/Assoc Dean/Etc while eating. Maybe they all get half price club seats with no MGSF contribution required.

The group in front of me has multiple pairs of seats totalling at least $7500 a year if I'm to assume I know what at least one set in my section costs. There's no doubt in my mind they aren't paying that much for seats.

Nope. UNT faculy/staff party full price. The can sign some paperwork to have the cost deducted monthly from their pay, but there is no discount.