Diagnosing the bad taste that won't go away after the Houston loss

[NM Green]

This is not the same old North Texas.  When I was there in the 80's we made sweet lemonade out of spoiled fruit.  The 90's saw that drama continue with the swing back up to tougher competition.  Then there was the stress and bipolar relationship of the early 2000's, where we walked around with swagger in the Belt and dreamed of beating a big boy or name program.  Then came the disaster which I can't digest or discuss on a week like this.  Now we are at the end of the 10's and we are a really different program from a leadership and facilities perspective.  It kind of reminds me of TCU's rise when they were rising and would suffer some devastating, rip the intestines out of the fanbase losses to Utah, Boise - the Baylor debacle that kept them from winning the NC.  Yet they kept getting back up off the mat and charging forward.  We are not at TCU's level, and frankly that program seems to have stalled a bit.  However, the elation and pain will keep us coming back and I do not believe we won't ever see another great QB at UNT.  Fine has been magical and the time has gone fast.  But this is still a dream system for some talent out there.  This is an awesome stepping stone program or more if they want it for a great coach.  Seth and Mason will hopefully finish strong and ride into the sunset with us cheering and celebrating strong.  Then we return to the Hill to see what excitement the 20's brings.

GMG

[PlummMeanGreen]

3 hours ago, NM Green said:

This is not the same old North Texas.  When I was there in the 80's we made sweet lemonade out of spoiled fruit.  The 90's saw that drama continue with the swing back up to tougher competition.  Then there was the stress and bipolar relationship of the early 2000's, where we walked around with swagger in the Belt and dreamed of beating a big boy or name program.  Then came the disaster which I can't digest or discuss on a week like this.  Now we are at the end of the 10's and we are a really different program from a leadership and facilities perspective.  It kind of reminds me of TCU's rise when they were rising and would suffer some devastating, rip the intestines out of the fanbase losses to Utah, Boise - the Baylor debacle that kept them from winning the NC.  Yet they kept getting back up off the mat and charging forward.  We are not at TCU's level, and frankly that program seems to have stalled a bit.  However, the elation and pain will keep us coming back and I do not believe we won't ever see another great QB at UNT.  Fine has been magical and the time has gone fast.  But this is still a dream system for some talent out there.  This is an awesome stepping stone program or more if they want it for a great coach.  Seth and Mason will hopefully finish strong and ride into the sunset with us cheering and celebrating strong.  Then we return to the Hill to see what excitement the 20's brings.

GMG

Again— “...Now we are at the end of the 10's and we are a really different program from a leadership and facilities perspective.  It kind of reminds me of TCU's rise when they were rising and would suffer some devastating, rip the intestines out of the fanbase losses to Utah, Boise - the Baylor debacle that kept them from winning the NC.  Yet they kept getting back up off the mat and charging forward.“

______________

➡️➡️➡️ North Texas must post SMU/UH losses this Fall “get back up off the matt & charge forward” because we now have the facilities to warp speed forward.

GMG!

Edited October 1, 2019 by PlummMeanGreen

[untjim1995]

3 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Again— “...Now we are at the end of the 10's and we are a really different program from a leadership and facilities perspective.  It kind of reminds me of TCU's rise when they were rising and would suffer some devastating, rip the intestines out of the fanbase losses to Utah, Boise - the Baylor debacle that kept them from winning the NC.  Yet they kept getting back up off the mat and charging forward.“

______________

➡️➡️➡️ North Texas must post SMU/UH losses this Fall “get back up off the matt & charge forward” because we now have the facilities to warp speed forward.

GMG!

I agree Plumm, on the facilities and resources end, but the conference setup is still THE killer. It’s better for us than it’s ever been, but it’s still awful compared to the AAC and MWC.

[TheNewEra]

16 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

I love Mason and all he’s done for NT but I’m actually looking forward to Bean taking over and bringing another dynamic to the offense here: Height + Dual Threat speed. 

Personally I wanna see Austin Aune (Brandon Weeden) I think he gives us the best chance to win instantly next year or Martin. I can't see Bean lasting an entire season unless he puts on 40 pounds. Guy looks like a strong wind would blow him over.

[wardly]

I don't see any difference in talent between CUSA and SBC, but there is a big gap between us and American Conference.

[rws69]

SMU had some success with short kickoffs to the corner against us, but it backfired when we tried that against Houston. No disrespect to Michael Lawrence and the other receivers, but we clearly miss the impact of Rico Bussey on offense. 

All that and more that can be said, I think everybody underestimated the motivation Houston had after blowing their game against Tulane nine days earlier and then watching two offensive leaders take the redshirts.

[MGNation92]

I think this team, even with the Bussey injury, would be completely different if Guyton had stayed.

It's unfortunate. All defenses are just gonna load the box and tee up on the short routes until we can find a consistent deep threat

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

On 9/30/2019 at 5:53 PM, Got5onIt said:

I love Mason and all he’s done for NT but I’m actually looking forward to Bean taking over and bringing another dynamic to the offense here: Height + Dual Threat speed. 

I'm actually excited to see Kade Renfro. 6-4 speed and can sling the ball pretty well. Yes Bean does look exciting, but i'm not convinced that he can throw that accurate and deep

[PlummMeanGreen]

It’s s no-brainer but all time record-breaking QB Mason Fine could very well have an Apogee statue made in his honor but first—AFL superstar Abner Haynes (as Lamar Hunt described him) along with his historic significance in the area of integration in the Lone Star State should be next.

You young alums may see an entire line of statues the next 50 years stretching from one side of Apogee to the other side.  That would mean the next 50 years will be historically significant for Mean Green football.   Isn’t it our time for all this? 

GMG!

Edited October 2, 2019 by PlummMeanGreen

[untlynchka1]

On 9/30/2019 at 1:39 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Well, it was sort of a reality check of how poor SL recruited his first 3 years + the fact that we just aren't very good. Losing at SMU...The excuse is made there...We haven't won there since the 30's, maybe we were flat, the coaches didn't know what to really prepare for because all of their transfers. Then, we come out and put up a decent (at best) performance on the road at a decent Cal team. So it was sort of trending upward to some degree after Cal. So a little hope starts to shine through. Word comes out that UH's best player is quitting. So we assume we will at least be ultra competitive and break away in the 2nd half with a dub.Then we get lambasted at home for a nice crowd to witness. Compile all of that with the fact that we know MF only has 3 more home games in his career then we will have a team full of unknowns going into Seth Littrell's 5th season. Breaking through that glass ceiling that is always and forever present for G5 programs seems kind of a hopeless achievement at this point. 9-4 might actually be the ceiling of UNT and it's difficult to fathom. Our year, under this grouping of kids, was last year and that year could have and should have easily been a 12-0 regular season. And now I feel like I'm ranting, so I'll stop. 

Only thing I disagree with this post is that I think it was only the first 2 years that recruiting was sub-par. I really think year 3 is when we started to increase the talent level we were recruiting. That would be the class that the sophomores and redshirt freshmen were in, and I think we’ve got some promising players from that class. Shorter, ogunmakin, kd Davis, dayton Leblanc. I also think Jason Bean might just end up being pretty special. Plus the year before he recruited tre Siggers, he’s alright. Lol

[FirefightnRick]

21 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

but the conference setup is still THE killer. It’s better for us than it’s ever been, but it’s still awful compared to the AAC and MWC.

Very few were thinking that after we spanked SMU and Arkansas last year.

We cant do anything about what conference we’re in right now.  We can only control what we do with the next team in front of us.

C-USA hasn’t held NT back..NT has held NT back.

 

Rick

[SilverEagle]

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

Very few were thinking that after we spanked SMU and Arkansas last year.

We cant do anything about what conference we’re in right now.  We can only control what we do with the next team in front of us.

C-USA hasn’t held NT back..NT has held NT back.

 

Rick

👍

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

Very few were thinking that after we spanked SMU and Arkansas last year.

We cant do anything about what conference we’re in right now.  We can only control what we do with the next team in front of us.

C-USA hasn’t held NT back..NT has held NT back.

 

Rick

I agree on on holding us back, but the talent on SMU’s roster and especially on UH’s roster was just very telling.

Last year, we beat SMU in their first game with Sonny Dykes as the coach and their talent was obviously less than it is now. And we beat an inept Arkansas team that was just putrid—great win, but they would get mud holed by the UH team we just saw this weekend.

I guess, watching these games this season, reminds me that the AAC programs just have higher ceilings than we have in CUSA. And the league is just terrible right now.

[97and03]

6 hours ago, untlynchka1 said:

Only thing I disagree with this post is that I think it was only the first 2 years that recruiting was sub-par. I really think year 3 is when we started to increase the talent level we were recruiting. That would be the class that the sophomores and redshirt freshmen were in, and I think we’ve got some promising players from that class. Shorter, ogunmakin, kd Davis, dayton Leblanc. I also think Jason Bean might just end up being pretty special. Plus the year before he recruited tre Siggers, he’s alright. Lol

 

I ran some numbers in another thread. Unfortunately, despite somewhat better high-end talent in the 2018 class, there were still 12 of 23 recruits with ZERO other FBS offers.  For comparison, the 2016 class had 8 of 22 with zero other offers (one of those was Mason Fine).

What should be most concerning - and a good explanation of our depth problem - is that only 9 players remain from that first recruiting class.  That class should be our senior starters now. There were lots of JUCOs and no-shows in that class.  (In addition Pirtle and Lawrence are part time starters but were walk-ons that year.)

Here is the breakdown:

2016 

Current Starters: Fine, Hamilton, Ozougwu, Muhammad, Bussey*

Backups: Nic Smith, Hair-Griffin**, JMoore**, Anthony, 

 

*Injured   **Has started this year

[untjim1995]

3 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

 

I ran some numbers in another thread. Unfortunately, despite somewhat better high-end talent in the 2018 class, there were still 12 of 23 recruits with ZERO other FBS offers.  For comparison, the 2016 class had 8 of 22 with zero other offers (one of those was Mason Fine).

What should be most concerning - and a good explanation of our depth problem - is that only 9 players remain from that first recruiting class.  That class should be our senior starters now. There were lots of JUCOs and no-shows in that class.  (In addition Pirtle and Lawrence are part time starters but were walk-ons that year.)

Here is the breakdown:

2016 

Current Starters: Fine, Hamilton, Ozougwu, Muhammad, Bussey*

Backups: Nic Smith, Hair-Griffin**, JMoore**, Anthony, 

 

*Injured   **Has started this year

I think that first class we got was just built on whoever would come here. I do agree that you’d love for them to be contributing as seniors now, but my bigger worry is if we will see our lines get any bigger and better in the years ahead. Because what we rolled out this past weekend can’t beat the La Tech’s and UAB’s of our conference when their physicality just pounds us in the ground, much less what UH has compared to us...

[97and03]

Just now, untjim1995 said:

I think that first class we got was just built on whoever would come here. I do agree that you’d love for them to be contributing as seniors now, but my bigger worry is if we will see our lines get any bigger and better in the years ahead. Because what we rolled out this past weekend can’t beat the La Tech’s and UAB’s of our conference when their physicality just pounds us in the ground, much less what UH has compared to us...

Here is what we should have back next year at OL, with their offers.  All except Byers were in the bottom half of their respective classes. 

Recruit

FBS

"P5"

Chandler Anthony

2

0

Jacob Brammer	2	0
Brian Parish	2	0

Manase Mose

2

0

Daizion Carroll

0

0

Cole Brown

0

0

Jordan Redfearn

0

0

Daxton Byers

4

0

John Brunner

1

0

Chris Cassidy

1

0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[untjim1995]

2 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Here is what we should have back next year at OL, with their offers.  All except Byers were in the bottom half of their respective classes. 

Recruit

FBS

"P5"

Chandler Anthony

2

0

Jacob Brammer	2	0
Brian Parish	2	0

Manase Mose

2

0

Daizion Carroll

0

0

Cole Brown

0

0

Jordan Redfearn

0

0

Daxton Byers

4

0

John Brunner

1

0

Chris Cassidy

1

0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it hits on what we have said for awhile. Until we start winning, and it appears last year resonated finally with TX HS Coaches and their players, nobody was looking at coming here unless they had no better offers or were not gonna play at wherever they really wanted to go. Hence the lack of P5 offers on the linemen. 

The hope is that whoever takes over for SL will have some serious momentum to build upon and have a roster that would develop into something bigger and better because of this last recruiting class specifically. Let’s all keep our fingers crossed on that!!

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

11 hours ago, 97and03 said:

 

I ran some numbers in another thread. Unfortunately, despite somewhat better high-end talent in the 2018 class, there were still 12 of 23 recruits with ZERO other FBS offers.  For comparison, the 2016 class had 8 of 22 with zero other offers (one of those was Mason Fine).

What should be most concerning - and a good explanation of our depth problem - is that only 9 players remain from that first recruiting class.  That class should be our senior starters now. There were lots of JUCOs and no-shows in that class.  (In addition Pirtle and Lawrence are part time starters but were walk-ons that year.)

Here is the breakdown:

2016 

Current Starters: Fine, Hamilton, Ozougwu, Muhammad, Bussey*

Backups: Nic Smith, Hair-Griffin**, JMoore**, Anthony, 

 

*Injured   **Has started this year

I remember when Smith was a beast in 2017 behind Jeff. Very physical, but speed kind of like Siggers

[Pavlovs Eagle]

On 9/30/2019 at 1:54 PM, ntmeangreen11 said:

Who's ready to hear about how Reeder is so much more comfortable heading in to year two as OC? Who's ready to fake excitement for the 3 JUCO DL players we sign (1 of which will fail to qualify) who were also offered by Idaho? Why am I ending this post with multiple questions?

[PlummMeanGreen]

At some point we need to move on from our OldDenton past;  even in the area of past recruiting practices & (FWIW) it seems we are doing things in most dramatic ways to do just that.

[meangreenlax]

UNT has held itself back, no doubt. But your conference dictates your ceiling in terms of recruiting/competition/opportunities. So C-USA still remains a significant impediment to UNT. 

[FirefightnRick]

2 minutes ago, meangreenlax said:

But your conference dictates your ceiling in terms of recruiting/competition/opportunities. So C-USA still remains a significant impediment to UNT. 

So it’s our conference’s fault as to why we can’t win conference?🙄

 

 

Rick

[97and03]

5 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

So it’s our conference’s fault as to why we can’t win conference?🙄

 

 

Rick

[NorthTexasWeLove]

16 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

So it’s our conference’s fault as to why we can’t win conference?🙄

 

 

Rick

No, I put that burden on the coaching staff. Last year was a winnable conference year. We had the best team in the conference and went 5-3 in conference play. Pissed away leads in all 3 games, 2 of them big leads. 

But to act as if there isn't truth in what he is saying would be naive. I'm not really concerned about CUSA. It's a dreadful conference going down a dreadful path. It's viewed that way by MANY. It hinders our recruiting and national perception. That's fact. If we were in the MWC OR AAC, the level of recruits interested in us would increase almost over night. The patch programs wear on their shoulder matters. Our patch is meaningless and carries water like a paper bag in high schools, locally and nationally. We'll NEVER get to where we want to be in this conference. More to your point, we'll get to where Darrell Dickey got us by doing what you imply, winning the conference. And though that is something that needs to happen, what will it all mean?  What he did was great, great run. But in the grand scheme of things, where did it get us? Answer: Not far, if anywhere at all.  Goes back to the midget (or small people) analogy I made last week. Though we DO need to win this conference, it will just make us the tallest small person in the room and no one will really care. 

[FirefightnRick]

19 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

No, I put that burden on the coaching staff. Last year was a winnable conference year. We had the best team in the conference and went 5-3 in conference play. Pissed away leads in all 3 games, 2 of them big leads. 

But to act as if there isn't truth in what he is saying would be naive. I'm not really concerned about CUSA. It's a dreadful conference going down a dreadful path. It's viewed that way by MANY. It hinders our recruiting and national perception. That's fact. If we were in the MWC OR AAC, the level of recruits interested in us would increase almost over night. The patch programs wear on their shoulder matters. Our patch is meaningless and carries water like a paper bag in high schools, locally and nationally. We'll NEVER get to where we want to be in this conference. More to your point, we'll get to where Darrell Dickey got us by doing what you imply, winning the conference. And though that is something that needs to happen, what will it all mean?  What he did was great, great run. But in the grand scheme of things, where did it get us? Answer: Not far, if anywhere at all.  Goes back to the midget (or small people) analogy I made last week. Though we DO need to win this conference, it will just make us the tallest small person in the room and no one will really care. 

It’s not being naive,..its pointing out how ridiculous a position it is to:

1) Bash a conference you haven’t even won yet.

2) Claim that if we were in a better conference we would suddenly get better athletes to win the better conference,...MAGICALLY ELIMINATING THE SHORTFALLS OF THE SAME COACHING STAFF THAT CANT WIN THE BAD CONFERENCE.

How do you not see how bizarre a position that is to take?

I worry about some of you people.

 

Rick