No passing game!

[American_Patriot]

UNT has no passing game and it's evident in the pass 2 games. 

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

1 minute ago, American_Patriot said:

UNT has no passing game and it's evident in the pass 2 games. 

I mean Fine threw for 350 yards and 2 TDs. Yes they haven't been consistent, but the O line is a huge huge problem. Can't have a good passing game when Fine is always running for his life 

[American_Patriot]

Should I re-state “winning” passing game. Fine has ample time in the pocket. This year he is rushing his reads and being spastic. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

This OL, though not great, is not the problem. Mason Fine is not hitting his targets. He is off target more than I have ever seen him, missing out cuts, over shooting simple screen throws, then chunking his mouthpiece 30 yards out of frustration after said throws. He has been missing target after target since the beginning of the season. He feels phantom pressure, he still holds the ball too long, and he compiles it all by missing his mark. It's clearly visible. 

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

23 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

This OL, though not great, is not the problem. Mason Fine is not hitting his targets. He is off target more than I have ever seen him, missing out cuts, over shooting simple screen throws, then chunking his mouthpiece 30 yards out of frustration after said throws. He has been missing target after target since the beginning of the season. He feels phantom pressure, he still holds the ball too long, and he compiles it all by missing his mark. It's clearly visible. 

It's obviously because of Reeder

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

It's obviously because of Reeder

The play calling is bad. 3rd & 1, power. Stuffed. 4th & 1, power. Stuffed. Similar to last year, with and without Reeder. 

21 seconds to go in the 3rd quarter, wind in your face, down 2 touchdowns, 2nd and 4 from the 6...They take the quarter because of a little wind...As if THAT's the problem. 

The botched 2 point conversions...botched meaning they should have just kicked the dang PAT's. To boot, they call a TO to set up one of the attempts.Then the real beauty of it, Holgorsen lines up his squad for a 2 pt conversion to extend the lead to 3 full TDs and gets it seamlessly....As if they've practiced situational football. 

Then the refusal to argue or schmooze refs by showing emotion or calling a 2nd half timeout to try and dictate a review in what may or may not have been a close game going into the fourth Q. But then blowing a TO on a sloppy 2-pt try. 

The constant slow developing route trees called time and time again when you know UH has 7 in the box in a 3 WR set = pressure, but they still call these long crossing patterns or slow developing posts. 

Many of our problems are just being exacerbated this season because we aren't winning. But the same problems are still there and apparent. The common denominator is not Body Reeder or Graham Harrell, it's Seth Littrell. 

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

15 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

The play calling is bad. 3rd & 1, power. Stuffed. 4th & 1, power. Stuffed. Similar to last year, with and without Reeder. 

21 seconds to go in the 3rd quarter, wind in your face, down 2 touchdowns, 2nd and 4 from the 6...They take the quarter because of a little wind...As if THAT's the problem. 

The botched 2 point conversions...botched meaning they should have just kicked the dang PAT's. To boot, they call a TO to set up one of the attempts.Then the real beauty of it, Holgorsen lines up his squad for a 2 pt conversion to extend the lead to 3 full TDs and gets it seamlessly....As if they've practiced situational football. 

Then the refusal to argue or schmooze refs by showing emotion or calling a 2nd half timeout to try and dictate a review in what may or may not have been a close game going into the fourth Q. But then blowing a TO on a sloppy 2-pt try. 

The constant slow developing route trees called time and time again when you know UH has 7 in the box in a 3 WR set = pressure, but they still call these long crossing patterns or slow developing posts. 

Many of our problems are just being exacerbated this season because we aren't winning. But the same problems are still there and apparent. The common denominator is not Body Reeder or Graham Harrell, it's Seth Littrell. 

Just overall an off day. This can't happen again, but i wouldn't be surprised if it does

[GreenFlag]

This is going to be unpopular but here goes. I brought a guy to the game last night who played OL at OSU under Holgorson. I asked him to give me some X's and O's insight so I can learn more about the game since he not only played but coached at a high level.

He was incredulous how poorly coached the OL was. He said very matter of factly our OL is terrible. He was complimentary of Fine, the WR's, and the RB's. He didn't think much of Bodie Reader's play calling either and thought he adjusted too late. 

 

[Salsa_Verde]

Can someone explain why they have MF doing running plays. It’s not fooling anyone and it’s going to get him hurt. They keep trying to force those plays and they don’t work. I just don’t understand it. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Salsa_Verde

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Can someone explain why they have MF doing running plays. It’s not fooling anyone and it’s going to get him hurt. They keep trying to force those plays and they don’t work. I just don’t understand it. 

Because, stupid. 

That's all I got. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by NorthTexasWeLove

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

42 minutes ago, GreenFlag said:

This is going to be unpopular but here goes. I brought a guy to the game last night who played OL at OSU under Holgorson. I asked him to give me some X's and O's insight so I can learn more about the game since he not only played but coached at a high level.

He was incredulous how poorly coached the OL was. He said very matter of factly our OL is terrible. He was complimentary of Fine, the WR's, and the RB's. He didn't think much of Bodie Reader's play calling either and thought he adjusted too late. 

 

Not unpopular at all. Even those of us that did not play college football can see all of this from the stands

[GrandGreen]

One of Fine's best games.   Fine only went for 35-55 and 353 yards passing while running for his life most of the time. 

Those complaining about Fine performance must have not watched the game very closely.  

[emmitt01]

48 minutes ago, GreenFlag said:

This is going to be unpopular but here goes. I brought a guy to the game last night who played OL at OSU under Holgorson. I asked him to give me some X's and O's insight so I can learn more about the game since he not only played but coached at a high level.

He was incredulous how poorly coached the OL was. He said very matter of factly our OL is terrible. He was complimentary of Fine, the WR's, and the RB's. He didn't think much of Bodie Reader's play calling either and thought he adjusted too late. 

 

Shhh...don’t be inserting the simplest, most obvious, no brainer explanation into this conversation.  

It’s far more logical that the quarterback who owns every record in school history is rushing his throws and has forgotten how to play in his senior season. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

4 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Shhh...don’t be inserting the simplest, most obvious, no brainer explanation into this conversation.  

It’s far more logical that the quarterback who owns every record in school history is rushing his throws and has forgotten how to play in his senior season. 

Is he not rushing his throws? Is he not his normal accurate self even in the face of no pressure? Did he not sling his mouthpiece 30 yards to the sideline after missing an uncontested HB screen pass? Is he not feeling phantom pressure? Is this NOT happening? You imply that it's not, so just have the stated opinion of it not happening...

[Got5onIt]

WRs aren’t beating anyone or getting open. Other team defenses are letting the really short routes go open because they know NT has no one athletic enough to make a play after the catch. 

[GreenFlag]

1 minute ago, Got5onIt said:

WRs aren’t beating anyone or getting open. Other team defenses are letting the really short routes go open because they know NT has no one athletic enough to make a play after the catch. 

I hear you! I think our WR Corp is above average but it's just not the same as last year. Come to think of it, Rico was having trouble getting open this year too against teams not named ACU. 

[GrandGreen]

Some QB thoughts:

On many plays there just was no one open.  
Because of the ol getting beat often, there were a lot of plays with only one or two receivers even running routes. 

Yes, Fine missed what appeared to be easy targets, but usually being under intense pressure

Not much to judge on, but Bean looks good to me.

NT's defense gets carved up by running QB's and I doubt any are close to Bean's speed

Few passes at this point, but Bean does look to have some touch with the ball

Would like to see him had a little bulk, but not if it hampers his quickness

There is hope for NT after Fine

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by GrandGreen

[emmitt01]

1 hour ago, Got5onIt said:

WRs aren’t beating anyone or getting open. Other team defenses are letting the really short routes go open because they know NT has no one athletic enough to make a play after the catch. 

We have a team with a roster designed for spreading people out and taking yardage in chunks...and a new offensive philosophy predicated on establishing the run first

[Philip Ferguson]

When do we get to see the "hurry up" offense and more TE usage?  Asking for a friend.  GMG

[Christopher Walker]

3 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

It's obviously because of Reeder

Matthew Brune has it on pretty solid authority that Reeder and Littrell are splitting play-calling duties, nearly 60/40 or sometimes 50/50. I think the split personality of the offense this year can be attributed to that alone. For reference the last three years had been 80/20 Harrell/Littrell calling shots.

21 minutes ago, Philip Ferguson said:

When do we get to see the "hurry up" offense and more TE usage?  Asking for a friend.  GMG

See above. I think we started to see the TE stuff in game one (lots of Pirtle!), but the staff may have realized that Fine was not gelling with it as much as they had hoped, adding to that the emergence of Tre Siggers. So there's been some trying to force past success while taking what the defense gives you coupled with wow-that-run-game.

[emmitt01]

33 minutes ago, Philip Ferguson said:

When do we get to see the "hurry up" offense and more TE usage?  Asking for a friend.  GMG

 We saw the hurry up for three drives yesterday...and saw 15 (should have been 17 if not for the botched 2-point tries) of our points as a result

Edited September 29, 2019 by emmitt01

[drex]

It is hard to have a good passing game when the quarterback has to pick the ball up off his ankles before he even thinks about throwing the ball.  Our center is suspect.

[Got5onIt]

4 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

We have a team with a roster designed for spreading people out and taking yardage in chunks...and a new offensive philosophy predicated on establishing the run first

 

No one can get open, they have to run. Siggers is their best offensive playmaker. 

[greeneagle1]

I’m going to say it. I think the biggest reason we aren’t as good is Jalen Guyton is gone. He had a stud sophomore season and a good jr season. Defenses focused on him and it opened up Rico in 2018. 2017, we had 3 NFL caliber players on the field  in Wilson, Guyton, and Bussey (4 if Fine makes it). Rico is the only one remaining and he’s hurt so who does Fine have? All the support staff but not the NFL talent. I think Mason Fine is a very good QB, but I never thought he was an exceptional talent. He has had playmakers around him in the two seasons his career took off. Now that he doesn’t have that, it’s like it was in 2016. He is a fearless QB and will try and make something out of nothing. He has the heart of a lion and the work ethic to be great. He wouldn’t be here if he didn’t have all that, but a lot of credit needs to go to the weapons he had at his arsenal. 
 

look at Carlos Harris. He was a really good slot receiver when he was the 3rd option behind Darnell Smith and Breelan Chancellor. But he couldn’t carry the team himself in 2014 and 2015. Same thing is happening now with Lawrence and Darden. 
 

Jalen Guyton took a selfish decision to go early to the NFL. He wasn’t ready, and he wasn’t on anyone’s board to get drafted. Now he isn’t playing football for any team. He doesn’t have a QB to throw to him right now and might be done playing football for good. He could have came back one more year and refined his craft. We could have had 2 1000 yard receivers this year and Fine breaking records his own broken records some more. But now we are seeing what happens when the talent leaves and gets hurt. I hope Rico comes back next year to finish his career at UNT. The next QB will really need his deep threat talent. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by greeneagle1

[Big Z]

6 hours ago, greeneagle1 said:

I’m going to say it. I think the biggest reason we aren’t as good is Jalen Guyton is gone. He had a stud sophomore season and a good jr season. Defenses focused on him and it opened up Rico in 2018. 2017, we had 3 NFL caliber players on the field  in Wilson, Guyton, and Bussey (4 if Fine makes it). Rico is the only one remaining and he’s hurt so who does Fine have? All the support staff but not the NFL talent. I think Mason Fine is a very good QB, but I never thought he was an exceptional talent. He has had playmakers around him in the two seasons his career took off. Now that he doesn’t have that, it’s like it was in 2016. He is a fearless QB and will try and make something out of nothing. He has the heart of a lion and the work ethic to be great. He wouldn’t be here if he didn’t have all that, but a lot of credit needs to go to the weapons he had at his arsenal. 
 

look at Carlos Harris. He was a really good slot receiver when he was the 3rd option behind Darnell Smith and Breelan Chancellor. But he couldn’t carry the team himself in 2014 and 2015. Same thing is happening now with Lawrence and Darden. 
 

Jalen Guyton took a selfish decision to go early to the NFL. He wasn’t ready, and he wasn’t on anyone’s board to get drafted. Now he isn’t playing football for any team. He doesn’t have a QB to throw to him right now and might be done playing football for good. He could have came back one more year and refined his craft. We could have had 2 1000 yard receivers this year and Fine breaking records his own broken records some more. But now we are seeing what happens when the talent leaves and gets hurt. I hope Rico comes back next year to finish his career at UNT. The next QB will really need his deep threat talent. 

100% right

Guyton was good at stretching the field to allow other receivers to get open. Fine is getting time to throw the ball, but we are working with receivers who barely have any 100 yard games under their belt. Right now we are just a run first team.