Time to start questioning Seth?

UNTLifer · September 29, 2019

12 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

No. Don't fire him. But the warmer needs to be turned on. He has won nothing. Lost the majority of 'big' games in what is standard Seth Littrell blowout fashion. He then rambles in coach speak while making no staff changes as if everything is hunky dory.

And the question I always ask myself about most purchases I make, is there value there...Am I getting a good deal. Well, at 1.8M, is there value there? Are we getting a good deal? Or could I place my money elsewhere for the same product at literally half the cost?

Do you read your posts? First you call of Bozos for wanting to keep Littrell claiming we have our heads in the sand, then you post that if you had smuT, UH, UNT offers, where would you go? Now you post, no, don't fire him but put him on the hot seat. Makes no sense at all.

Here's my take. SL caught lightening in a bottle by finding Fine and starting out with Guyton who had transferred in. He brought in the best coaching staff we have had in years highlighted by Harrell who gave us credibility with the HS coaches when we had none. He has continued to build the relationships with the staff every year while raising the standards/culture of this program to where it needs to be. While doing this, his assistants have been poached every year. LeBlanc, Ek, Harrell, etc... have been poached by teams in bigger conferences, so whoever blamed him for not firing assistants is being short-sighted. Can you imagine firing coaches on top of the poaching? He has to maintain some sort of continuity with his staff.

The next thing I look at is recruiting and what our commits are saying. It has improved every year after taking over from a HC that didn't recruit, didn't build relationships, had no recruiting program in place, etc... The HC he replaced also didn't make all of his assistants recruit. SL has built our recruiting program and hired people to run this program and the improvement in our level of commits is testament to this commitment. Because of this, I give him a pass on his first two recruiting classes. Our last class was very good, and the current class has the potential to be even better.

The other thing that has always been lacking but SL has put in place is a good S&C program along with a nutrition program. Again, these programs can take a year or two to really produce results.

We should win conference this year when taking in to account that some of the top teams in CUSA are having a down year. I am concerned about what we look like at QB next year. Fine has really carried this team the past four years and how we perform once he is gone is a concern. We have greater depth at QB than ever in our history, the problem is they get to follow our greatest QB in history.

The two coaches I think should be on the hot seat are our DL and OL coaches, especially OL. Yellock is well respected and has worked with a short deck. Langston, on the other hand, hasn't proven himself, IMHO.

SL is a good coach that is well respected by those that understand the situation he took over and the success he has had to date. No, my head is not in the sand. I am still in SL's corner, but to build the program we all want takes time after basically years and years and years of neglect. Some of you need to understand where we have come from, what SL took over and then temper your expectations with a dose of reality.

NorthTexasWeLove · September 29, 2019

Just now, UNTLifer said:

Do you read your posts? First you call of Bozos for wanting to keep Littrell claiming we have our heads in the sand, then you post that if you had smuT, UH, UNT offers, where would you go? Now you post, no, don't fire him but put him on the hot seat. Makes no sense at all.

Here's my take. SL caught lightening in a bottle by finding Fine and starting out with Guyton who had transferred in. He brought in the best coaching staff we have had in years highlighted by Harrell who gave us credibility with the HS coaches when we had none. He has continued to build the relationships with the staff every year while raising the standards/culture of this program to where it needs to be. While doing this, his assistants have been poached every year. LeBlanc, Ek, Harrell, etc... have been poached by teams in bigger conferences, so whoever blamed him for not firing assistants is being short-sighted. Can you imagine firing coaches on top of the poaching? He has to maintain some sort of continuity with his staff.

The next thing I look at is recruiting and what our commits are saying. It has improved every year after taking over from a HC that didn't recruit, didn't build relationships, had no recruiting program in place, etc... The HC he replaced also didn't make all of his assistants recruit. SL has built our recruiting program and hired people to run this program and the improvement in our level of commits is testament to this commitment. Because of this, I give him a pass on his first two recruiting classes. Our last class was very good, and the current class has the potential to be even better.

The other thing that has always been lacking but SL has put in place is a good S&C program along with a nutrition program. Again, these programs can take a year or two to really produce results.

We should win conference this year when taking in to account that some of the top teams in CUSA are having a down year. I am concerned about what we look like at QB next year. Fine has really carried this team the past four years and how we perform once he is gone is a concern. We have greater depth at QB than ever in our history, the problem is they get to follow our greatest QB in history.

The two coaches I think should be on the hot seat are our DL and OL coaches, especially OL. Yellock is well respected and has worked with a short deck. Langston, on the other hand, hasn't proven himself, IMHO.

SL is a good coach that is well respected by those that understand the situation he took over and the success he has had to date. No, my head is not in the sand. I am still in SL's corner, but to build the program we all want takes time after basically years and years and years of neglect. Some of you need to understand where we have come from, what SL took over and then temper your expectations with a dose of reality.

I didn't call anyone bozos for wanting to KEEP SL. I called ya bozos for it taking people this long to QUESTION SL. There have been red flags going up since 2016 on this staff and it takes year 4 for people to question them. I think we should keep SL on the basis of keeping these recruiting classes intact. But, I would have a short leash on him. You can't cut bait when it's too late, because if you do then you just wasted 4 years of momentum and we'll be right back to square 1, 2015.

Wag Tag · September 29, 2019

We have to recruit at a higher level. Their safeties were the size of our linebackers and they had a strong D line rotation! I am shocked at the no hurry up with the OC. I think the 2pt conv time-out and still looked disorganized sums it up.

BillySee58 · September 29, 2019

13 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

We have to recruit at a higher level. Their safeties were the size of our linebackers and they had a strong D line rotation! I am shocked at the no hurry up with the OC. I think the 2pt conv time-out and still looked disorganized sums it up.

We are recruiting at a higher level. The problem is they’re freshmen and high school seniors. We needed to recruit at a higher level when SL took over

TheColonyEagle · September 29, 2019

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

We are recruiting at a higher level. The problem is they’re freshmen and high school seniors. We needed to recruit at a higher level when SL took over

The first 2 years at the bottom of the conference in recruiting is real....

Coach Andy Mac · September 29, 2019

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

We are recruiting at a higher level. The problem is they’re freshmen and high school seniors. We needed to recruit at a higher level when SL took over

Bingo

Wag Tag · September 29, 2019

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

We are recruiting at a higher level. The problem is they’re freshmen and high school seniors. We needed to recruit at a higher level when SL took over

I agree should of stated we need to recruit better and we are doing that!

GrandGreen · September 29, 2019

The experts say the number one factor in recruiting is conference affiliation.

Even thought the AAC is a G5 league, they are perceived and are way ahead of CUSA.

So in general, Littrell or anyone else NT hires is going to have to fight against the CUSA membership.

NT is doing all they can to battle in recruiting and they are having some success against the other G5's. However, only a few of those players have seen the field.

NT is not going to fire or even put pressure on Littrell. A losing season or two may change that, but I don't think that is going to happen.

peanuts104 · September 29, 2019

There are some definite issues. We knew the defense would struggle at times with the talent loss. It's hard for me to blame Reffet much. Biagi has put an inconsistent product on the field since day 1 and we should move on from him. All the cool trick plays that helped us were usually negated by huge mistakes and we don't even have any trick plays to offset the bad ones this season. The line started the year strong I thought but they were man handled last night.

As Fine showed last night, he is still the Fine we know. Receivers don't seem to be running routes as crisp as they were last year and that may be because of the WR coach we lost in the offseason. I also don't think the receivers know the offense very well and despite having some speedy wide outs, we rarely get behind DBs anymore. As Mason showed last night, if they can shake loose he can hit them deep.

So that brings us to Seth. I am just as frustrated with the top down issues related to clock management. He needs to get better at that. I also think he should start calling plays because I don't think Reeder is up to the task.

To all you fools saying this is as far as we can get with him and all that horseshit, have you forgotten the Dodge years and the Portland State loss? It takes time to build a program and it's hard to build consistency when half your staff gets poached every offseason. They're still figuring it out. They have two weeks and we are 1-0 in conference. Even if we miss a bowl this season I'm not out on Littrel. If that trend continues down to next season? Then we can talk because he is one of the highest payed G5 coaches and we expect results. But some of y'all need to go take some Xanax or something. Calm down.

meangreenlax · September 29, 2019

2 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

It takes time to build a program and it's hard to build consistency when half your staff gets poached every offseason. They're still figuring it out.

This happens to every halfway successful G5 team. It’s not an excuse to get blown out in every tough game over 3 years

ADLER · September 29, 2019

Holy smokes, can you kids overreact.

As Vito often states "Winning is less about the X's and the O's and more about the Jimmys and the Joes."

Upper tier G5 schools like UCF, Boise, and Houston still recruit at a higher level than North Texas but that gap is narrowing as our recruiting level is getting better every single year.

untbowler · September 29, 2019

47 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

To all you fools saying this is as far as we can get with him and all that horseshit, have you forgotten the Dodge years and the Portland State loss? It takes time to build a program and it's hard to build consistency when half your staff gets poached every offseason. They're still figuring it out.

So f**king sick of the Dodge excuse. SL is getting paid 2 to 3x more than any previous coach. He has a new stadium. More $$$ for assistants but still chokes away the important games while beating up the dregs of the worst FBS conference.

No excuses should be needed. If these were close losses it would be one thing but all 3 losses this year the team looked ill prepared and SL was clowned by opposing HC.

Edited September 29, 2019 by untbowler

TIgreen01 · September 29, 2019

There are plenty here pointing to the recruiting heading up. Last night was a showcase of how important it will be to keep that heading in the right direction. Those that want to run off Littrell apparently aren’t watching the same games that I am.

Absolutely, last night was yet another disappointment in front of a great crowd. But holy cow we were just not at the same level in terms of overall talent on the roster. Houston was bigger, stronger and faster. Plain and simple. We made lots of mistakes, for sure, but at some point you have to give credit to your opponent for making plays.

Keep the momentum going by winning the West division and bringing in another great class of recruits. That is how we close the gap. It is not time to push the reset button.

Having said all that, the new offense is clearly a work in progress. It is concerning to still be seeing what looks like confusion 5 games in. I’m not sold on it, yet, but hope to see improvement through the year.

mgfan · September 29, 2019

Fau

Troy

Those aren't aac teams. Multiple 21 point leads blown.

People say it takes years? How many years?

I still don't get why he doesn't put in Bean.

Why doesn't he ever challenge a call?

How long does it take to build a good defense?

How come the offense has gotten worse?

Udomann · September 29, 2019

1 hour ago, ADLER said:

Upper tier G5 schools like UCF, Boise, and Houston still recruit at a higher level than North Texas but that gap is narrowing as our recruiting level is getting better every single year.

Is it thought? This year looks excessively worse than last. It appears that gap is just getting bigger. And will only get bigger after two blowout losses...

Who would want to sign under Seth "the choker" Littrell?

greenminer · September 29, 2019

2 minutes ago, Udomann said:

Is it thought? This year looks excessively worse than last. It appears that gap is just getting bigger. And will only get bigger after two blowout losses...

Who would want to sign under Seth "the choker" Littrell?

What recruiting stats do you look at to support this post?

Pavlovs Eagle · September 29, 2019

2 hours ago, peanuts104 said:

To all you fools saying this is as far as we can get with him and all that horseshit, have you forgotten the Dodge years and the Portland State loss?

I stop reading every time someone mentions Portland State...

You should ask the bookstore if they can make some custom "Remember Portland State" shirts to sell during games at the Apogee gear store. Some of you shape your whole view of UNT Football today and tomorrow based on this blast from the past.

Udomann · September 29, 2019

10 minutes ago, greenminer said:

What recruiting stats do you look at to support this post?

Pretty sure the results speak for themselves. This year's team didn't fill the gaps. Next year's team will suffer for it.

Doesn't matter what the recruiting stats are. The final numbers are the real truth. And truth hurts this year...

greenminer · September 29, 2019

6 minutes ago, Udomann said:

Pretty sure the results speak for themselves. This year's team didn't fill the gaps. Next year's team will suffer for it.

Doesn't matter what the recruiting stats are. The final numbers are the real truth. And truth hurts this year...

Recruiting has been dramatically better since 2018. If this doesn’t give you hope for the program, I don’t know what else to say. If you disagree with the notion that it is improved, I can tolerate that. I would just like to know your supporting argument.

If “on the field results” is your argument, I don’t think you understand how this works.

Edited September 29, 2019 by greenminer

Udomann · September 29, 2019

3 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Recruiting has been dramatically better since 2018. If this doesn’t give you hope for the program, I don’t know what else to say. If you disagree with the notion that it is improved, I can tolerate that. I would just like to know your supporting argument.

If “on the field results” is your argument, I don’t think you understand how this works.

I'll give you an upvote for a fair argument. My concern is that whatever "high" we've been riding is going to come down. Those recruits will flip because SL just cannot break thought that ceiling. 4 years now and the job is still not getting done. 4th year, this should be the ideal recruiting class. And it's so far been worse than the last 2 years...

NorthTexasWeLove · September 29, 2019

5 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Recruiting has been dramatically better since 2018. If this doesn’t give you hope for the program, I don’t know what else to say. If you disagree with the notion that it is improved, I can tolerate that. I would just like to know your supporting argument.

If “on the field results” is your argument, I don’t think you understand how this works.

Spare me. It's year 4 on the field and year 5 in recruiting. How damn long does it take. Year 4 under most regimes is considered THE make or break year and we're dog paddling to keep our heads above water.

Udomann · September 29, 2019

14 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Recruiting has been dramatically better since 2018. If this doesn’t give you hope for the program, I don’t know what else to say. If you disagree with the notion that it is improved, I can tolerate that. I would just like to know your supporting argument.

If “on the field results” is your argument, I don’t think you understand how this works.

Alternate response: point out one positive (ok, besides Siggers) of this season vs last two.

I'll wait.

greenminer · September 30, 2019

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Spare me. It's year 4 on the field and year 5 in recruiting. How damn long does it take. Year 4 under most regimes is considered THE make or break year and we're dog paddling to keep our heads above water.

For recruiting, it took 3 years. I don't understand it. I don't like it. I don't think Seth is perfect. But it's pretty clear he figured something out, and I've seen enough from the last two years to support seeing how he does with these 2018-2019 commits in the two deep.

1.7 is a ton of money. If you have some hard rule of 4-5 years or you're out, with absolutely no consideration for circumstance, I'd understand and tolerate that.

greenminer · September 30, 2019

1 hour ago, Udomann said:

Alternate response: point out one positive (ok, besides Siggers) of this season vs last two.

I'll wait.

You keep circling back to results on the field, while I am talking about recruiting from 2018 and beyond.

I am not disputing the shit football we've seen thus far.

NorthTexasWeLove · September 30, 2019

54 minutes ago, greenminer said:

For recruiting, it took 3 years. I don't understand it. I don't like it. I don't think Seth is perfect. But it's pretty clear he figured something out, and I've seen enough from the last two years to support seeing how he does with these 2018-2019 commits in the two deep.

1.7 is a ton of money. If you have some hard rule of 4-5 years or you're out, with absolutely no consideration for circumstance, I'd understand and tolerate that.

I have no rule. I'm tired of spending me entertainment dollar on voluntary throat punches. No one was saying squat about the lack of recruiting in 2018 or 2019 during the season. It's an easy built in excuse and given it's year 4, it's a poor excuse. But we're beaten and tired fans, so as long as we're pulling 5-8 wins a year any coach could probably coach here forever...is the mindset around here anyways.