Column: California and New York are setting dangerous precedents with student-athlete pay

[Skipper]

The age-old argument over paying college athletes has entered a new chapter. Every day, it appears as if more and more people are getting behind the idea of the NCAA

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[keith]

"The whole point of paying college athletes is so they can afford to live...."

Seriously?  College students can't afford to "live?"  I mean are they out on the streets dropping dead?

[Withers940]

What does New York and California have in common?

[DeepGreen]

And what about the college students who do not have athletic abilities/scholarships?  Do we pay them too.  I thought athletes on scholarship had most of their education paid for.  Oh, I forgot.  This is not about education.

[DeepGreen]

Just now, Withers940 said:

What does New York and California have in common?

Two idiot Governors.

[forevereagle]

4 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

And what about the college students who do not have athletic abilities/scholarships?  Do we pay them too.  I thought athletes on scholarship had most of their education paid for.  Oh, I forgot.  This is not about education.

How much revenue does the average student generate for their university? Are there limits on where and how much an average student can work and earn?

[MeanGreen_MBA]

Scholarship athletes get room and board, school and books paid. I also think they now get a little $$. Anybody saying they don’t have food or a place to stay is not being truthful.  They can work during the summer and save cash for incidentals throughout the years. I knew a lot of kids that did that. They are getting plenty of resources and do not need more. 

 

Gor or those who say the school makes millions off what they do....probably right. But so does the ownership of the company I work for. We agreed on a price I would be willing to work to make them that money. In exchange, they would leverage that money to ensure I had a place to come to work. Simple stuff here 

[forevereagle]

Just now, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Scholarship athletes get room and board, school and books paid. I also think they now get a little $$. Anybody saying they don’t have food or a place to stay is not being truthful.  They can work during the summer and save cash for incidentals throughout the years. I knew a lot of kids that did that. They are getting plenty of resources and do not need more. 

 

Gor or those who say the school makes millions off what they do....probably right. But so does the ownership of the company I work for. We agreed on a price I would be willing to work to make them that money. In exchange, they would leverage that money to ensure I had a place to come to work. Simple stuff here 

First point, that's a great theory, but not easily put into practice anymore. There are limits on how much they can work in the summer and there is also the potential for issues with impropriety. Most athletes practice over the summer and take classes to allow them to have a lighter load during the season, so there is little time for a job. They are not starving, but they aren't loaded either. To call what they have plenty from the outside is easy to do, but the players are the ones living with the reality of the situation. 

To your second point, you do have a similar arrangement with your employer. The difference is that you can go elsewhere if you feel you are not being compensated fairly. These athletes don't really have that option. They could go to another school, but it wouldn't be for more money. If they do that, they get raked over the coals for transferring. There isn't a minor league for them to go into, for the most part, if they would like to pursue their sport professionally since the NFL and other leagues have requirements to play in them, Euro leagues and such notwithstanding. Even baseball has a rule against leaving college early if you decide it isn't for you if you don't go to the minors immediately after HS. There really is no winning here for them.

[DentonLurker]

14 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

We agreed on a price I would be willing to work

This is a pretty important part of what you wrote. There's no negotiation with athletes and what they get. Additionally, your company doesn't pay you in the product they produce. They pay you cash.

[GrandGreen]

3 minutes ago, forevereagle said:

First point, that's a great theory, but not easily put into practice anymore. There are limits on how much they can work in the summer and there is also the potential for issues with impropriety. Most athletes practice over the summer and take classes to allow them to have a lighter load during the season, so there is little time for a job. They are not starving, but they aren't loaded either. To call what they have plenty from the outside is easy to do, but the players are the ones living with the reality of the situation. 

To your second point, you do have a similar arrangement with your employer. The difference is that you can go elsewhere if you feel you are not being compensated fairly. These athletes don't really have that option. They could go to another school, but it wouldn't be for more money. If they do that, they get raked over the coals for transferring. There isn't a minor league for them to go into, for the most part, if they would like to pursue their sport professionally since the NFL and other leagues have requirements to play in them, Euro leagues and such notwithstanding. Even baseball has a rule against leaving college early if you decide it isn't for you if you don't go to the minors immediately after HS. There really is no winning here for them.

Football players at most if not all FBS schools also get a monthly stipend.  At NT it is somewhere around $300 a month.

I can't believe the ignorance of some people who think college athletics actually make money for most schools.  Most universities, not at the top of the P5's, lose millions.  

There is absolutely little comparison with the business world. 

The intent at least to some extent is to have competitive sports.   You certainly would destroy that mission with a highest bidder type of recruiting. 

[forevereagle]

18 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Football players at most if not all FBS schools also get a monthly stipend.  At NT it is somewhere around $300 a month.

I can't believe the ignorance of some people who think college athletics actually make money for most schools.  Most universities, not at the top of the P5's, lose millions.  

There is absolutely little comparison with the business world. 

The intent at least to some extent is to have competitive sports.   You certainly would destroy that mission with a highest bidder type of recruiting. 

The stipend does help, and I like that it was something that was done to help the players. 

There is a difference between profit and revenue. The players absolutely generate revenue for their departments. Athletics is advertising for the university and a way to make campus life better. While athletics does not directly enhance the bottom line of a university, it does lead to more money for a university. If it did not, athletics would not be funded.

Agreed.

I would not advocate for a highest bidder situation for exactly the reason that you state, but allowing players to benefit more from the time, effort, and physical toll they put in is something that should be examined further.

Edited September 27, 2019 by forevereagle

[RBP79]

Just another Power 5 power grab. Ok...pay them and you'll see many schools dropping football. There is no way big universities, like ours, and especially smaller public school will survive. Money, money, money....show me the damn money!!

Ok, where's my down vote

[ADLER]

53 minutes ago, RBP79 said:

Just another Power 5 power grab. Ok...pay them and you'll see many schools dropping football. There is no way big universities, like ours, and especially smaller public school will survive. Money, money, money....show me the damn money!!

Ok, where's my down vote

Just the opposite, this could benefit the G5 programs.

Let's just say, the G5 programs instituted that each school could offer 22 players $100K per year to play there. It would cost only $2.2 million per year but you'd be able to steal all the best players form the P5 programs. 

Most, if not all, of the P5 programs could not afford to pay ALL of their 85 players that amount and would then require that the whole system get corrected.

Eventually you get back to the NCAA receiving and distributing all television and merchandise fees, exactly how it used to be, but with a fair amount going to each athlete (in all sports).

[RBP79]

1 hour ago, ADLER said:

Just the opposite, this could benefit the G5 programs.

Let's just say, the G5 programs instituted that each school could offer 22 players $100K per year to play there. It would cost only $2.2 million per year but you'd be able to steal all the best players form the P5 programs. 

Most, if not all, of the P5 programs could not afford to pay ALL of their 85 players that amount and would then require that the whole system get corrected.

Eventually you get back to the NCAA receiving and distributing all television and merchandise fees, exactly how it used to be, but with a fair amount going to each athlete (in all sports).

Wow..didnt know NT had that kind of money...

 

[0footballfan0]

This totally takes away from the purity of college football, and why I like it better than the NFL.

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, 0footballfan0 said:

This totally takes away from the purity of college football, and why I like it better than the NFL.

Same 

[southsideguy]

What next if I player declares for the draft and doesn't make it he can come back and play for a P-5 school only.  They continue to stack the deck.  I am UNT fan I do bleed green, so the big guys force the -other schools to drop football.  Do you think I will become a UT fan?  No I will watch a lot less P-5 football.  What made college great is going away.  

[TheColonyEagle]

What if schools just stopped giving athletic scholarships? Pay them the hourly rate that most college students get while working like most college kids do. You work over 40 hours, you get overtime. But if you don't get an academic scholarship...you don't get your school paid for. I can't believe how much people trivialize the value of the scholarship. Most kids graduate with crushing debt. Scholarship athletes don't. So take it away but remove the barriers to work more. Let them work during the summer....also anytime you're doing a team required activity, "punch in." We'll pay you for football but you pay for tuition and room and board, etc. 

How would they like that? They would come out WAY behind. (Like most college students)

As for switching companies, the "company" is college football. The different schools are the "departments." So your choice is either play college football or don't. If playing college football is such a horrible experience for the athletes that are getting their school paid for....quit. Pay for you own school and go work somewhere. (like most college students do). Guess what...the company you go work for after school is gonna make a lot more money than you do. Don't like it? Yes you can leave. Then go to another company....they're going to make more than you too.

This is not about helping the poor starving student athlete....this is about someone else is making more and people hate it. Better for everyone to have less money than anyone to have more. If the school didn't use Mason Fine's likeness as much as it does....he probably wouldn't be getting as much NFL Draft attention. Just like any other star athlete. It's not like star athletes don't get anything out of it. The schools are providing marketing for them as well at their expense.

Edited October 1, 2019 by TheColonyEagle

[TheColonyEagle]

On 9/27/2019 at 9:50 AM, Withers940 said:

What does New York and California have in common?

This is what they want to do with EVERY corporation......not just the NCAA

[NM Green]

There is a breaking point.  What turned me off about the nfl is coming to college sports especially the big dogs. It’s okay, they’ll lose viewers and fans after cashing in on a big paycheck - leaving destruction and demolition behind. But if you think people across the south and Texas are all of a sudden gonna stop playing and watching football, well then you have underestimated the flyover folk once again. Football will survive and thrive in a different form outside of Austin and College Station.  

But the big boys have it all wrong. There is time for sanity. You don’t grow your sport by shrinking your pool.  That is why I think the format is here to stay with an expansion to 8 playoff teams. There are people in and out of the main leagues that feel their is a place for Boise and UCF and are interested in seeing what they will do against Washington Oklahoma. 

GMG

[untjim1995]

This is yet another reason the Power Conferences need to split away—whether inside the NCAA or outside. In no way are the G5’s even in the same state as the P5s from a revenue standpoint. Their media deals are so huge that they make tons of cash without even trying. Meanwhile, UH and UNT play a game on Facebook. It’s apples to oranges.

The G5 level of football is the only one in any type of setup you can find that cannot offer their teams and fans a national champion. It’s asinine to think it’s great to settle for the crumbs of playing the last P5 team to get invited for a big bowl.

[golfingomez]

i don't think it's that big of a deal... If I could buy Fine or Hambone gear and know that they would get a slice of that money, i'd be all for that.

[Cr1028]

I see no problem with advertisers being able to pay college kids for their name and likeness.

As far as paying players goes? That is a tricky question. You say “but they get their school paid for”. Most elite college athletes don’t want the education to begin with but are forced to enter college because it is the only realistic path to professional football. The NFL is the real winner here because the NCAA is a free farm system for them.

Im in the extreme minority here but I say if the P5s want to pay big salaries to cfb players, I say let them. Let them cannibalize each other and let the G5 stay pure. Perhaps even eliminate scholarships entirely to got to a true “student-athlete” system.

[TheColonyEagle]

8 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Most elite college athletes don’t want the education to begin with but are forced to enter college because it is the only realistic path to professional football.

That was sort of my point. While the school is making money on the likeness of these elite athletes...the elite athletes are getting free marketing too which helps their draft prospects. They don't have to hire an agent (yet) because the university is their agent. And don't forget the facilities that the athlete is using to get bigger, stronger faster to again...help their draft prospects. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by TheColonyEagle

[untjim1995]

College football is really on a slippery slope now. They have the same programs always competing for a national championship and it gets very boring. Also, the money these networks pay these big conferences influences advertisers so imagine when AT&T decides to not only sponsor the Big XII but their CEO is an OU Alum (just an example) and decides to sponsor their 5-star QB prospect if he agrees to go to OU. That’s not even what the NFL deals with their players being drafted and owned by the team. 

I’ll take normal, historical college football over the current situation of paying players above their scholarships anytime...