What Seth Littrell may be teaching me about North Texas

Cr1028 · September 9, 2019

Expectations are great provided they are reasonable. It isn’t like the other 13 teams in CUSA are taking days off. Their fan bases are saying the same stuff. We have made tremendous strides in the last 3 years. We are less than 4 years removed from having the record breaking shit kicked out of us by a FCS school for homecoming. A game we paid 6 figures for.

I’m sure just about everyone on this board including me has big dreams for UNT, conference title, BCS buster type dreams but those dreams aren’t realized without obstacles. We are making progress. Maybe the progress is slower than some of you would like but it is much faster than the folks outside of our green bubble would’ve expected out of us. Just think, last year we very nearly had a school pay us to take our coach away rather than us having to pay them to go away as usual. We have also had assistant coaches poached by P5 schools every year Seth’s been here. To me, that is a welcome change and I have faith that regardless of what happens with Seth, Wren Baker will keep us on an upward trajectory for the rest of his tenure here.

Udomann · September 9, 2019

11 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Expectations are great provided they are reasonable. It isn’t like the other 13 teams in CUSA are taking days off. Their fan bases are saying the same stuff. We have made tremendous strides in the last 3 years. We are less than 4 years removed from having the record breaking shit kicked out of us by a FCS school for homecoming. A game we paid 6 figures for.

I’m sure just about everyone on this board including me has big dreams for UNT, conference title, BCS buster type dreams but those dreams aren’t realized without obstacles. We are making progress. Maybe the progress is slower than some of you would like but it is much faster than the folks outside of our green bubble would’ve expected out of us. Just think, last year we very nearly had a school pay us to take our coach away rather than us having to pay them to go away as usual. We have also had assistant coaches poached by P5 schools every year Seth’s been here. To me, that is a welcome change and I have faith that regardless of what happens with Seth, Wren Baker will keep us on an upward trajectory for the rest of his tenure here.

Well put. Still feels like a step back this season but let's see where it goes. I'm here for the long haul to whatever end.

Cr1028 · September 9, 2019

9 minutes ago, Udomann said:

Well put. Still feels like a step back this season but let's see where it goes. I'm here for the long haul to whatever end.

Thank you

Harry · September 9, 2019

22 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Expectations are great provided they are reasonable. It isn’t like the other 13 teams in CUSA are taking days off. Their fan bases are saying the same stuff. We have made tremendous strides in the last 3 years. We are less than 4 years removed from having the record breaking shit kicked out of us by a FCS school for homecoming. A game we paid 6 figures for.

I’m sure just about everyone on this board including me has big dreams for UNT, conference title, BCS buster type dreams but those dreams aren’t realized without obstacles. We are making progress. Maybe the progress is slower than some of you would like but it is much faster than the folks outside of our green bubble would’ve expected out of us. Just think, last year we very nearly had a school pay us to take our coach away rather than us having to pay them to go away as usual. We have also had assistant coaches poached by P5 schools every year Seth’s been here. To me, that is a welcome change and I have faith that regardless of what happens with Seth, Wren Baker will keep us on an upward trajectory for the rest of his tenure here.

Excellent post. Much good has been had here despite the setbacks.

Also, if you get way down take a look at the new IPF as that will get you right back up off the ground real quick.

MeanGreenTexan · September 9, 2019

56 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

no, but show me all the schools in the country where 9 wins is 'not that hard to do' or a 'basic' expectation.

There are only a handful of G5s that can say this. And those expectations have proven to be difficult to achieve even for them. And are almost always cyclical (look at Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, now-UCF's-time, etc...) with the lone exception of Boise St., although I will say Houston is beginning to approach Boise St. territory themselves with what they've built over time.

It's a beautiful thing that North Texas is in a position to make this kind of expectation a reality at the moment. Let's hope Ryan/Smatresk/Baker/Littrell(?) can build us into something like what Houston is doing, and at the least extend our time in the sun.

NTPoonKing · September 9, 2019

Well thought out and researched post. I happen to agree with everything ColonyEagle said.

This team needs a defensive overall badly.

akriesman · September 9, 2019

First, everyone has a right to their own opinion. But, I do want to say something here that I feel strongly about.

Fans of G5 programs are often complaining about the lack of coaching loyalty. As soon as a coach is successful, they jump to a higher program and are accused of "chasing the money".

We have a coach that probably could have made that jump last season. Certainly he could have gone to K State for one. Instead, he chose to come back here. We don't know what his reason was for staying. Was it Mason's last year ? Fan loyalty ? He really likes Wren and the administration ? Whatever the reason, Seth came back for another year and risked a bigger contract if things didn't go well this year.

So, now that we have had a bad loss (and yes, we have fallen short in big games), people are jumping on Seth. So, where is the loyalty ?

I think if we are lucky enough to hold on to Seth for 15 years, it very well could be the most successful extended era of North Texas football yet. We may have our down years like any other G5 program (except for maybe Boise). But, I would love to see a coach stick around here for that long and have a successful run.

The recruiting is on the upswing. The players recruited by the university are great young men and fine (no pun intented) representatives of the university.

I could see Seth being the next Doc Holliday. If so, I would be thrilled with that. Doc Holliday is 71-47 with Marshall. They have won some big games and gained a lot of national respect. Yet, in 2016, Holliday was 3-9 and Marshall fans were calling for his head.

Be careful what you wish for sometimes. We have a good thing going here. The SMU game stings a lot for me also. Getting crushed in the bowl games and conference championship is also tough to take. But, we are seeing general progress all around and a lot of that has to do with stability in both the administration and coaching.

Just my humble opinion.

TheColonyEagle · September 9, 2019

16 minutes ago, akriesman said:

First, everyone has a right to their own opinion. But, I do want to say something here that I feel strongly about.

Fans of G5 programs are often complaining about the lack of coaching loyalty. As soon as a coach is successful, they jump to a higher program and are accused of "chasing the money".

We have a coach that probably could have made that jump last season. Certainly he could have gone to K State for one. Instead, he chose to come back here. We don't know what his reason was for staying. Was it Mason's last year ? Fan loyalty ? He really likes Wren and the administration ? Whatever the reason, Seth came back for another year and risked a bigger contract if things didn't go well this year.

So, now that we have had a bad loss (and yes, we have fallen short in big games), people are jumping on Seth. So, where is the loyalty ?

I think if we are lucky enough to hold on to Seth for 15 years, it very well could be the most successful extended era of North Texas football yet. We may have our down years like any other G5 program (except for maybe Boise). But, I would love to see a coach stick around here for that long and have a successful run.

The recruiting is on the upswing. The players recruited by the university are great young men and fine (no pun intented) representatives of the university.

I could see Seth being the next Doc Holliday. If so, I would be thrilled with that. Doc Holliday is 71-47 with Marshall. They have won some big games and gained a lot of national respect. Yet, in 2016, Holliday was 3-9 and Marshall fans were calling for his head.

Be careful what you wish for sometimes. We have a good thing going here. The SMU game stings a lot for me also. Getting crushed in the bowl games and conference championship is also tough to take. But, we are seeing general progress all around and a lot of that has to do with stability in both the administration and coaching.

Just my humble opinion.

I don't think I'm jumping on Littrell. I like him. And as for loyalty....he's the highest paid coach in the conference, he has amazing facilities. He has a new practice facility and is getting an upgraded locker room and weight facility. All time high donations. All time high attendance.

I think he's been shown a tremendous amount of loyalty too.

and again....I'm not jumping on him. But I don't think it's "disloyal" to have expectations based on what he's been given here too. Many coaches leave because they can't get certain things from the administration. Littrell gets whatever he wants here. You can't judge our current state based on history because we've never had what we have now...

Good leadership

first class facilities

donations

attendance

admin support

We've never had what we have today.

FirefightnRick · September 9, 2019

Just my opinion,...make no mistake that Arkansas game was our greatest win in decades. At least for a few weeks we were in the same discussion as a giant killer right along with the others.

But considering the team he inherited to me Littrell’s greatest coached game was the 35-18 Win over Army AT WEST POINT...in 2016.

Rick

keith · September 9, 2019

The past has shown us that the most dangerous game for UNT is the so called "opportunity game." I swear I think we are 0-for in those games in forever. I don't know, maybe we put too much pressure on ourselves or perhaps we are just the most snake-bit team in the history of college football. Whatever it is, we should avoid all references to "opportunity games" in the future and just go out there and play ball!

meangreenlax · September 9, 2019

2 hours ago, akriesman said:

We don't know what his reason was for staying.

It's pretty clear why he stayed. Kansas State wanted control on who he could have on his staff and he didn't like that. It's not good enough of a job to put up with that type of stuff.

Got5onIt · September 10, 2019

Seth has one eye on the Ole Miss job....

Green Lantern · September 10, 2019

3 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Just my opinion,...make no mistake that Arkansas game was our greatest win in decades. At least for a few weeks we were in the same discussion as a giant killer right along with the others.

But considering the team he inherited to me Littrell’s greatest coached game was the 35-18 Win over Army AT WEST POINT...in 2016.

Rick

Completely agree. That’s when I knew things as a program we’re going to be different under Seth. In past years a tough road trip against an unorthodox opponent like that almost without question turned out horribly.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Green Lantern

SilverEagle · September 10, 2019

When was the last time that a North Texas coach won a game that I used to refer to as a "hillabeans win" AND THEN followed it up with another "hillabeans" win? Cal and Houston.....that's SL's and, by extension, our programs chance to step up............credibility wise. Otherwise all those yards that Mason Fine has piled up will be regarded by people outside our program as nothing more important than the DD Sunbelt record winning streak.

And all those recruits and transfers that could have upgraded our lines (both of them) to the next level will continue to go somewhere else.

TheColonyEagle · September 10, 2019

1 hour ago, SilverEagle said:

When was the last time that a North Texas coach won a game that I used to refer to as a "hillabeans win" AND THEN followed it up with another "hillabeans" win? Cal and Houston.....that's SL's and, by extension, our programs chance to step up............credibility wise

Yes!

lets go!

MeanGreenTexan · September 10, 2019

11 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

Seth has one eye on the Ole Miss job....

He is really going to need to turn this thing around very quickly (as in this weekend) to even be remotely considered for an SEC job.

untbowler · September 10, 2019

23 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

He is really going to need to turn this thing around very quickly (as in this weekend) to even be remotely considered for an SEC job.

you sure?

Chad Morris got a job after doing nothing at SMU for 2 yrs.

MeanGreenTexan · September 10, 2019

Just now, untbowler said:

you sure?

Chad Morris got a job after doing nothing at SMU for 2 yrs.

...and how's that working out for Arkansas?

untbowler · September 10, 2019

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

...and how's that working out for Arkansas?

never said it was working out well, but both are coming from similar back grounds as OC's in the ACC and both have the rising star tag, so someone could easily snatch and think he would do well. Although Morris failing up and failing some more hopefully will open the eyes of AD's

MeanGreenTexan · September 10, 2019

6 minutes ago, untbowler said:

never said it was working out well, but both are coming from similar back grounds as OC's in the ACC and both have the rising star tag, so someone could easily snatch and think he would do well. Although Morris failing up and failing some more hopefully will open the eyes of AD's

Right. Ole Miss likes to think of themselves as "real" players in the SEC, even though they have to cheat BIG TIME to get there. If Seth could put together a UCF/WMU-type year, maybe he'd get more consideration for that particular job.