Seth = HOF

El Paso Eagle · July 24, 2019

Let's say (just for talking on a slow day) we win another 8-10 games next year and Seth moves on. Is he in the North Texas HOF?

GrandGreen · July 24, 2019

NT put DD in the HOF. Standards are definitely not high, when a coach with a soso record and a propensity to criticize his own school is honored.

At this point, Littrell has not won a conference championship or bowl game. If he can add those two accolades to his resume, than he is a shoo-in.

UNT86 · July 24, 2019

Dickey was honored in spite of his mouth.

He won four straight conference championships and a bowl game. He did it when we had not been to a bowl game in my lifetime. I wouldn't go so far as to name a practice field after him, but I don't have him problem with him getting in the HOF.

Just don't expect me to stand and cheer when he is honored.

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2019

If those 10 wins don’t include a bowl win, absolutely not.

If yes, maybe.

If a conference championship + bowl win, absolutely.

Cr1028 · July 25, 2019

In the last 70 years there have been 3 head football coaches with winning career records at North Texas. Odus Mitchell, Hayden Fry, and Seth Littrell. No way he doesn’t get in.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Cr1028

dml7007 · July 25, 2019

If he leaves this year possibly but not a sure thing. If he is hear for 3-4 more and continues on this pace yes.

Cooley · July 25, 2019

Yep, if Dickey gets in at 42-65 the next dorm near Joe Greene Hall is Seth Hall across the street from the new Derek Thompson Ave.

El Paso Eagle · July 25, 2019

3 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

NT put DD in the HOF. Standards are definitely not high, when a coach with a soso record and a propensity to criticize his own school is honored.

At this point, Littrell has not won a conference championship or bowl game. If he can add those two accolades to his resume, than he is a shoo-in.

I hope we get to a point on our program where the standards are raised greatly. IMO DD should not be in the HOF

greenminer · July 25, 2019

Not ready to make that leap. I’d prefer some conference titles and bowl wins, first.

RBP79 · July 25, 2019

Unfortunately, DD WON FOUR CONFERENCE TITLES and a BOWL WIN. Someone please tell me who has done the same or better. Those were good times and it was fun.

SL will make it in.

Edited July 25, 2019 by RBP79
GM

El Paso Eagle · July 25, 2019

9 minutes ago, RBP79 said:

Unfortunately, DD WON FOUR CONFERENCE TITLES and a BOWL WIN. Someone please tell me who has done the same or better. Those were good times and it was fun.

SL will make it in.

Not to take away from the conference wins but the Sun Belt was horrendous. What was his record outside the conference?

RBP79 · July 25, 2019

23 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Not to take away from the conference wins but the Sun Belt was horrendous. What was his record outside the conference?

What was SL conference wins before NT...he didn't have any as a HC. And I suppose beating Cinni was just a accident. I was never excited about MVC either... and they occasionally had good teams. You deal with what conference your in and go. I mean I'm not real crazy about CUSA...Look where our division was ranked after last year.

Bottom Line...who had a better record than 4 conference title's and a BOWL win!

Not defending DD but after years of being beaten down DD got us up and excited.

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2019

36 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Not to take away from the conference wins but the Sun Belt was horrendous. What was his record outside the conference?

His record out of conference was awful because those were the games that were scheduled to finance the program during his time here.

Thankfully, Coach Littrell only has 1 of those per year (balanced out by a paid win VS FCS). Coach Dickey had 3 or 4 per year.

emmitt01 · July 25, 2019

I am always so amused when people shit on the Dickey years as if they weren’t among the best in the history of THIS program. If I asked a college football historian to point out the high water marks for this program, Dickey’s run gets brought up real damn quick.

We aren’t counting Heismans around here, or New Year’s Day bowl appearances. And, outside of Mean Green land, nobody says “Damn, those Hayden Fry years were just the bee’s knees!”

We are talking about OUR hall of fame, not USC’s. And, just to be clear, this was a SL thread before it was hijacked into another Dickey revisionist history session.

DeepGreen · July 25, 2019

Dickey May have gotten into the HOF to maybe appease Mattress Mac?

Travis · July 25, 2019

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

His record out of conference was awful because those were the games that were scheduled to finance the program during his time here.

Thankfully, Coach Littrell only has 1 of those per year (balanced out by a paid win VS FCS). Coach Dickey had 3 or 4 per year.

No way. We got beat by tons of mediocre teams too. And often beat badly.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Travis

97and03 · July 25, 2019

Not sure if he will without a championship or bowl win.

But Mason Fine will be in there. Probably Bussey too.

Edited July 25, 2019 by 97and03

FirefightnRick · July 25, 2019

7 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

I am always so amused when people shit on the Dickey years as if they weren’t among the best in the history of THIS program. If I asked a college football historian to point out the high water marks for this program, Dickey’s run gets brought up real damn quick.

We aren’t counting Heismans around here, or New Year’s Day bowl appearances. And, outside of Mean Green land, nobody says “Damn, those Hayden Fry years were just the bee’s knees!”

We are talking about OUR hall of fame, not USC’s. And, just to be clear, this was a SL thread before it was hijacked into another Dickey revisionist history session.

What is also amusing to me is how quickly everyone forgets DD’s non-conference schedule his first 6 years, which you, I and others always seem to have to remind everyone every time it comes up.

No coach at North Texas ever had to face such a Murderers’ Row before or since..(we’ll, maybe Simon?). And It was done to finance our ENTIRE athletic program and that set the stage for and affected DD’s attitude towards OOC play during his entire time here.

Rick

Edited July 25, 2019 by FirefightnRick

Wag Tag · July 25, 2019

Wren and Neil will follow. This may be the greatest time in UNT athletics. Leadership and coaching has been outstanding!

Cr1028 · July 25, 2019

9 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Not to take away from the conference wins but the Sun Belt was horrendous. What was his record outside the conference?

Big West Conference (before we joined the Belt) record 5-11.

OOC record 8-42

Victories over teams with a .500 or better record during “legendary” 4 year bowl run? 4

Edited July 25, 2019 by Cr1028

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2019

7 hours ago, Travis said:

No way. We got beat by tons of mediocre teams too. And often beat badly.

Yes way.

Frame of reference:
1998:  @Oklahoma, Texas Tech, @Arizona State, @TX A&M
1999:  UNLV, @LSU, @TXTech, @Baylor
2000:  Baylor, @TXTech, @UNLV @KSSt

Now for the Conference/bowls run:
2001: TCU, @Oklahoma, TX Tech, @South FL (These TX Tech games were 2-for-1's)
2002: @Texas, @Alabama, @TCU, @ Arizona (4 AWAY games!!!)
2003: @Oklahoma, Baylor, @Air Force, @Arkansas
2004: @Texas, @Colorado, @Baylor (We only played 11 regular season games this year... can anyone help me recall why we only played 11 games and who the 12th team may have been? It wasn't LSU/Katrina, that was the next year.)

2005 & 2006: The wheels fell off after we lost so many amazing players & he was fired. Maybe this is what you're thinking? Specifically, that awful Tulsa game? This didn't happen during the timeframe of conference championships.

Again, the argument keeps coming down to those 4 conference championship years... who were the "tons of mediocre" teams? '01 TCU ('02 was ranked), upstart South FL (no one saw their incredible rise coming), a down Baylor (whom we smashed 52-14) & Air Force?

Travis · July 25, 2019

43 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Yes way.

Frame of reference:
1998:  @Oklahoma, Texas Tech, @Arizona State, @TX A&M
1999:  UNLV, @LSU, @TXTech, @Baylor
2000:  Baylor, @TXTech, @UNLV @KSSt

Now for the Conference/bowls run:
2001:  TCU, @Oklahoma, TX Tech, @South FL   (These TX Tech games were 2-for-1's)
2002:  @Texas, @Alabama, @TCU, @ Arizona (4 AWAY games!!!)
2003: @Oklahoma, Baylor, @Air Force, @Arkansas
2004: @Texas, @Colorado, @Baylor (We only played 11 regular season games this year... can anyone help me recall why we only played 11 games and who the 12th team may have been? It wasn't LSU/Katrina, that was the next year.)

2005 & 2006: The wheels fell off after we lost so many amazing players & he was fired. Maybe this is what you're thinking? Specifically, that awful Tulsa game? This didn't happen during the timeframe of conference championships.

Again, the argument keeps coming down to those 4 conference championship years... who were the "tons of mediocre" teams? '01 TCU ('02 was ranked), upstart South FL (no one saw their incredible rise coming), a down Baylor (whom we smashed 52-14) & Air Force?

We would play two games that were good and notable and often two games that weren’t. And I am not just counting the bowl run years, why should I? It seems like you added that simply to bolster your argument and ignored the others that bolstered mine. I am looking at DD’s entire coaching career here. His lackluster recruiting was a complaint even from players - I know, I roomed with one. Outside of one strong recruiting year, he really sat on it.

TCU was not that good one year and good the next. The 02 game was one of the rare times we were actually in the game - but only because TCU ran a dumb prevent that allowed our backup Qb to score a touchdown to make it a possible miracle. Neither was Air Force, South Florida, Baylor, and Arizona ‘good’ at all. South Florida rose quickly, but they weren’t when we played them. Didn’t we lose to a non conference Florida Atlantic team too? Tulsa was just embarrassing. What about that mighty Akron team? We rarely ever beat the beatable teams. I can think of one Troy team before we played them in conference and a Baylor team. The rest were a few D-1AA teams if I recall. Am I missing any ‘notable’ wins outside of a really terrible Baylor team? We played winnable games and never had a fighting chance. At least with an SL team, we Know we have a fighting chance with most anyone. Even our money games now have people sweating it at half. Something I only could dream of a DD team doing.

Cr1028 · July 25, 2019

@MeanGreenTexan, @Travis

I will let you guys duke it out over these during the bowl run. It appears we beat the teams we should’ve beat and lost to the ones we should have for the most part. Is that hall of fame worthy? That is for you to decide.

2001 (5-7)

Wins

MUTS (8-3)

ArkSt (2-9)

NMSU (5-7)

ULL (3-8)

Idaho (1-10)

Losses

TCU (6-6)

OU (11-2)

Texas Tech (7-5)

USF (8-3)

ULM (2-9)

Troy (7-4)

CoState (7-5)

2002 (8-5)

Wins

Nicholls (?)

ArkSt (6-7)

ULL (3-9)

ULM (3-9)

Idaho (2-10)

NMSU (7-5)

MUTS (4-8)

Cincy (7-7)

Losses

Texas (11-2)

Alabama (10-3)

TCU (10-2)

Arizona (4-8)

USF (9-2)

2003 (9-4)

Wins

Baylor (3-9)

ULL (4-8)

Idaho (3-9)

USU (3-9)

MUTS (4-8)

Troy (6-6)

ULM (1-11)

ArkSt (5-7)

NMSU (3-9)

Losses

OU (12-2)

Air Force (7-5)

Arkansas (9-4)

Memphis (9-4)

2004 (7-5)

Wins

MUTS (5-6)

USU (3-8)

NMSU (5-6)

ULM (5-6)

ULL (4-7)

Idaho (3-9)

ArkSt (3-8)

Losses

Texas (11-1)

FAU (9-3)

Colorado (8-5)

Baylor (3-8)

SoMiss (7-5)

I had never really looked at his bowl run this way before but of the games he lost during the run, I could only see maybe two where we could’ve expected a win. The rest are pretty much p5 powerhouses or G5’s having great seasons. Personally I’m ok with him being in despite his lack of decorum at times.

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2019

42 minutes ago, Travis said:

We would play two games that were good and notable and often two games that weren’t. And I am not just counting the bowl run years, why should I? It seems like you added that simply to bolster your argument and ignored the others that bolstered mine. I am looking at DD’s entire coaching career here. His lackluster recruiting was a complaint even from players - I know, I roomed with one. Outside of one strong recruiting year, he really sat on it.

...

I just showed you the schedules. "Two games that were good and notable, and often two games that weren't"... I don't see those. Some years, I see zero G5 games (re: teams on our level). Others, only 1. Remember, we were less than 10 years out of 1AA ball at this time.
And whenever someone like me tries to point out the 4 straight conference championship seasons & bowls, that's where Dickey gets poo-poo'd. "Who did he play?!?!" Well, outside of conference he was constantly playing ranked P5 teams away, that's who!

I've already conceded 2005 & 2006 as terrible years, and he certainly needed to be fired for them. Heart attack or not.

Outside of that, we won 27-straight conference games. You play the teams in front of you. If we were in a sucky conference, fine. But those teams were trying to win too, and we beat them all 4 years in a row. If Dickey wasn't a good coach, we would have lost some of those conference games as well.

He's in the HOF, and deservedly so, partially due to the extremely low standards for it at North Texas for decades, and partially because there are 4 Conference Championship trophies and a NOBowl trophy in the Athletics Building because of him.

GrandGreen · July 25, 2019

11 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

I am always so amused when people shit on the Dickey years as if they weren’t among the best in the history of THIS program. If I asked a college football historian to point out the high water marks for this program, Dickey’s run gets brought up real damn quick.

We aren’t counting Heismans around here, or New Year’s Day bowl appearances. And, outside of Mean Green land, nobody says “Damn, those Hayden Fry years were just the bee’s knees!”

We are talking about OUR hall of fame, not USC’s. And, just to be clear, this was a SL thread before it was hijacked into another Dickey revisionist history session.

I'd amuse you again. I doubt there have been many coaches who gained so much based on one incredible recruiting class. That 2001 class was what won those 4 Belt championships. I don't know how it happened, but DD never came remotely close to matching it.

Six top Texas 100 recruits including Booger Kennedy. You have to give Dickey credit for that class, but after that his recruiting was very suspect.

Dickey was a good football coach and worked as he liked to point out without a lot of resources. What he didn't highlight was most of the teams that NT beat had even less.

I do think that Dickey had a lot of personal issues in most of his tenure at NT.

DD's string of Belt wins was NT hof worthy, but IMO his personal conduct cancelled that out.