New York Sub Hub Not Giving In

[UNTLifer]

https://www.change.org/p/eminent-domain-is-theft-save-new-york-sub-hub-and-others?recruiter=979647655&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=fffc9d80-9abe-11e9-a42b-3db2a74c68ec&share_bandit_exp=initial-16409563-en-US&share_bandit_var=v3&utm_content=fht-16409563-en-us%3Av2

 

[xyresic]

I feel like the narrative online is omitting some key points:

- the family that owns this property is wealthy, so it is not like they don’t have the ability to move nearby. The son is interviewed but I believe the father owns the property and the tax info fowards to a million dollar home.

- despite this wealth this whole section of four buildings has not had meaningful investment in forever, the buildings and pavement are in poor shape and that is being generous.

- they are being offered $700k almost triple the tax value for a small building built in the 60’s.

So school bullies young hard working owner is the easy narrative to write but I feel there is a more accurate one that hasn’t been put forth.

 

[southsideguy]

They can pay for the property but how about the business part of it.   That place is pretty busy whenever I go into it.

[xyresic]

Re: the value of the operations if everyone likes the place so much moving nearby shouldn’t affect them greatly & a nicer/bigger location could even improve their sales.

I am not anti Subhub and I’m sympathetic to the history of the place. I just felt like it’s fair to consider both sides.

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by xyresic

[Travis]

I understand fighting for more money from the university... but I don’t see how if they have a successful biz that they can’t move it somewhere close to the university and still imitate their model. 

[FirefightnRick]

I know how we hate college eateries and dislike keeping anything charming, memorable or traditional nearby our campus so that on game day we have to muddle through that lovely cesspool out on University to get a bite to eat, but let’s tabulate, three of my favs.....

No more...

State Club

The Tomato

The Texas Pickup,  

Who else?

 

Rick

 

[southsideguy]

Location, location and location, the three most important things when considering where to put a store.    They get a lot of walk-in customers to the store.  They won't be able to be close to UNT now and that is most of their business.  They pay taxees, UNT not so much. I love UNT but I disagree with this move.  

I don't care if they are rich,  they built the business and if that helped get rich more power to them.   Denton will soon be like Amarillo all the national restaurants and no local flavor.  Oh yeah it makes me so proud when I drive by Sack n Save and see the UNT  name on it.  They should have just left the sign off the building.   UNT could have done Denton a big favor and taken over the land in cement city and built something new.

BTW how many of you actually live here in Denton?

Edited June 30, 2019 by southsideguy

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

I know how we hate college eateries and dislike keeping anything charming, memorable or traditional nearby our campus so that on game day we have to muddle through that lovely cesspool out on University to get a bite to eat, but let’s tabulate, three of my favs.....

No more...

State Club

The Tomato

The Texas Pickup,  

Who else?

 

Rick

 

So true Rick... and why ultimately?  I think UNT wants the business to go to their restaurants (ie profit centers).  That place had a lot of sentimental value to many of us.  

I am torn though as for WAY too long we all complained about how crappy the front entrance of the college was to I35 and it now appears they are changing that and without eminent domain it would never happen.

NY Subs knows they will lose this but they are trying to negotiate a better cash settlement for the property.  They are being paid market rates which can get lost in all of the emotion.

For that matter -  we don’t really know whether or not UNT tried to work out a deal to keep it there... it could be that NY Subs was being stubborn about it.

[Travis]

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

I know how we hate college eateries and dislike keeping anything charming, memorable or traditional nearby our campus so that on game day we have to muddle through that lovely cesspool out on University to get a bite to eat, but let’s tabulate, three of my favs.....

No more...

State Club

The Tomato

The Texas Pickup,  

Who else?

 

Rick

 

Did you ever try that sushi place that folded a few years back that was over near the fry area. I loved it. 

Who doesn’t miss the chicken tendies from State Club?!? 

Also, did anyone ever go to the food truck the Angry Friar ( the double decker bus) back in 2011?! I was in love with those fish and chips. 

[greenminer]

Someone tell me about the elaborate cuisine at State Club.  I came to Denton only in time to sample their nickel beers.  Never did try their food in time before they closed.

[Mean Green 93-98]

32 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Someone tell me about the elaborate cuisine at State Club.  I came to Denton only in time to sample their nickel beers.  Never did try their food in time before they closed.

Not much elaborate about it.  @Travis mentions the Iowa State chicken tenders--they were top notch.  Tender and juicy, served with your choice of honey mustard or ranch.  IIRC, pretty good burgers, hot wings, and...club sandwiches(?)  I don't know, something about my time spent in there makes me not remember too much of it.

[SlimSlamSlum]

1 hour ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Not much elaborate about it.  @Travis mentions the Iowa State chicken tenders--they were top notch.  Tender and juicy, served with your choice of honey mustard or ranch.  IIRC, pretty good burgers, hot wings, and...club sandwiches(?)  I don't know, something about my time spent in there makes me not remember too much of it.

The Tennessee State Hickory Burger was my go to meal. The Mondo Nachos at Cool Beans were good when you needed to share for financial reasons.

 

[Christopher Walker]

Oh man... the Angry Friar...

[southsideguy]

According to the Denton paper, the first contact that UNT made with the owners was the letter.  UNT said they could not speak to the owners until the letters were sent out.  So maybe now they will.

[kingwoodgreen]

I think a new location could be strategically placed on that side of campus maybe within whatever we are planning. To me there needs to be some places to eat in that area due to all the dorms now being in that part of campus. And I have eaten at that place before Kenny had to change the name. I lived at the sig ep house down the street and probably ate there 3-4 times a week. I had many friends that worked there. And yes Jeff had my order working before I got through the turnstile. And with some funny smartass remark about how I like my #18. 

So creative minds should be able to come up with a good solution for them and a way for us to make that area a much better campus. How a about an eating retail area built onto the development? Maybe an outdoor mall area. Too far to walk to Fry for everything. Also would be a cool place for pregame if you do not tailgate. That area is walkable to stadium. 

[Pavlovs Eagle]

12 hours ago, xyresic said:

Re: the value of the operations if everyone likes the place so much moving nearby shouldn’t affect them greatly & a nicer/bigger location could even improve their sales.

$700k is chump change. 

Say the location is doing on the low low end $20k a week, that's a $1.04m store.  In reality it probably does much more than that.   Even though they "own the building" they're probably paying rent to themselves to help spread the revenue out in the most tax efficient way possible.  So they have what amounts to two businesses that will shut down (the store, and the NYCSH Building corp) and will lose revenue.  The University just put a price tag on what a piece of land across Eagle from campus is worth.  Now any small scrap of dirt with an even moderately habitable building is worth $700k, and in reality will go far far more.

So for $700k, the University takes your building shell+dirt ($1.5m+) , takes a year of revenue from your restaurant ($1m+), takes the buildout of even the cheapest restaurant with a few small hoods and ultra basic finishes (350k-500k), and the takes the intangibles like proximity to campus and goodwill surrounding the brand, story, name etc ($$$?).

$700k is a raw deal in even the most back of napkin calculations.

I'd tell the University that they can purchase a similar property across campus for me, clear the property to dirt and provide cash to build a comparable shell + finishout, or find a comparable property that has a suitable building across from campus and provide money to renovate and finishout.  I'd come at them initially with loss of revenue projections and ask for that money too.  For fear of litigation and an opponent with much deeper pockets than me, I'd probably be will to give up the lost revenue if there was some strong leagalize in the contract that I had to be open for business collecting revenue in less than 12 months, or the university owes me X number of dollars per period.  

I hope these guys get a huge payday.  Texas eminent domain laws are criminal.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Pavlovs Eagle
misc grammar

[xyresic]

Pavlov this post was pure gold, I nominate it for the hall of fame.

With you as their ace advisor a new battlecry will ring throughout Denton “Leagalize NY Subhub”

[MCMLXXX]

12 hours ago, southsideguy said:

  Denton will soon be like Amarillo all the national restaurants and no local flavor. 

No more Big Texan Steak Ranch? No more free 72 ounce steak? It can't be true!  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Texan_Steak_Ranch

[southsideguy]

The place is always packed for sure.  I forgot all about that place.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Sucks for Subhub.

They were alright, but far from any kind of ‘institution’ (I spent way more $ at Cool Beans & Tomato while I was there), but in the end, our degrees say North Texas on them, so we need to root for what’s best for our Alma Mater because it should ideally add more value (be it big or small) to our diplomas.

 

[MrStrange18]

Yeah... I think its time for them to let it go and move on. It sucks and all, but lets root for the University here.  I trust that the expansion planned will be better for UNT and Denton in the long run

[LongJim]

I wonder if moving to the Union would be a good option for them.

[Harry]

17 minutes ago, LongJim said:

I wonder if moving to the Union would be a good option for them.

I am certain UNT Gabe them this option.

[UNTLifer]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

 

They were alright, but far from any kind of ‘institution’

 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

I feel sorry for the owners to some degree. But they'll cash out by force and UNT will be better off for it with whatever initiative or design they are trying to pursue in that space. I love privately owned restaurants and I eat at them far and away more often than I do corp places, but I am on UNTs side here for I want the university to always be looking for ways of improvement.