Is JJ the guy?

[GreenFlag]

I think most of us expect nothing less than dominating the Sun Belt in football. Why is there far less expectations in basketball from the average UNT fan? Why is it ok to be middle rung in a lower conference in bb? I don't think it is going to be ok anymore knowing that bb will probably impede our entrance into CUSA. This conference shakeup stuff is good when it forces us to be honest about our situation and where our strengths and weaknesses lie.

I am like most around here a football fan first and basketball is a distant second. I am a season ticket holder to both and do the basketball thing out of duty. I would really like to be sucked in to basketball like I was to football but there just isn't the buzz around the program in terms of recruits, how we are improving, how we are building a "program" like there is around the football program.

So, if any of you "basketball heads" want to chime in on what it's going to take I would like to hear from you. I'm mixed on what I think of JJ right now. Here is what I know. He is far better X and O's than Trilli and a class individual. That's it. As far as recruiting...I don't think we are getting better yet. Are we on the right track and I don't know it?

[CMJ]

Johnny Jones is definitely turning our ship around. Whether or not he's going to turn us into a SBC power is up for debate, but after three seasons most of the stench from the Trilli era is gone. That man nearly ruined our program - and set us back 5-6 years IMHO.

[UNTLifer]

Johnny Jones is definitely turning our ship around. Whether or not he's going to turn us into a SBC power is up for debate,

This seems like a contradiction. Wouldn't "turning our ship around" mean winning conference and being competitive with the locals (SMU and TCU)?

[CMJ]

This seems like a contradiction.  Wouldn't "turning our ship around" mean winning conference and being competitive with the locals (SMU and TCU)?

Not when during the Trilli era we won about 5 games a year. Getting competitive..hell MEDIOCRE...is turning things around then. I do think we'll be competitive in the Belt and maybe sneak a league championship in a few years.

Not sure we'll ever be a power though(championships year in year out) - because the fan base isn't as obsessed with winning basketball.

[UNTLifer]

I'll take FFR's stance on this and state that if we start consistently winning, then the fans will come. They came in the 70's when we won and will return. Why play the game if winning a conference chamionship isn't the goal. Anything besides this is not acceptable in my book.

[UNT_92_Fan]

Just from talking to a few of the guys on the team that i personally know....JJ is having quite a recruiting year....and anything is better than it used be around here! So Yes JJ is the man in my opinion....Class act coach!

[GrandGreen]

Some should remember that it was the plan under Helwig to concentrate on Basketball and bring it up to a championship level before football. Unfortunately, Trilli proved to be probably the poorest coach in NT history. However, I don’t believe you can blame Trilli for Jones inability to recruit in his first three years. Look at Baylor, you wouldn’t think anyone could be successful there, but the coach has done well considering the situation. Recruiting has always been a problem at NT in basketball. IMHO part of NT historical problem is that either because they don’t have the resources or have high standards but NT has not purchased players. I have heard many stories from former NT coaches about players being recruited to NT being bought by only programs. An example, a former Baylor and NBA star was headed to NT when his mother in New York City suddenly found a very good job in Waco, Texas.

IMO JJ is a very good beach coach and it appears that his recruiting this year maybe much better. Unfortunely, other than giving Johnson, a two year ship for 1 semester of playing, JJ and staff recruiting thus far has been very mediocre. I don’t think anyone can suggest that Ronniger, Harris, Thomas, or Watson were highly sought recruits. DD has been successful without recruiting the blue chips but basketball is a little more difficult. With all the summer leagues and camps it is harder to find an unknown top tier player.

I think Trilli was a disaster of the first order, however he did promote the program. I have seen very little of JJ and the start of practice midnight madness type of promotions have been extremely poor. Student support has been so bad that a crowd of 500 students is a big night. The coaching staff and athletic department have to step up to improve attendance. A starting time on weekdays that prohibits most fans in the metroplex from attending doesn’t help. I went to three games last year were I arrived just before or at halftime. Sorry I am not going to spend 3 hours travel to see one half of a game anymore. Also having the girls and men playing at the same time is crazy and I am surprised the women have even the small crowds that show up.

In summary, it should be much easier to turn around the basketball program than football. NT basketball facilities are better, it takes only a few players to turn a team around, and even a mediocre student turnout could easily double or triple attendance.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

Ah, Vic Trilli. The man, the legend, the hair.....

[CMJ]

Ah, Vic Trilli.  The man, the legend, the hair.....

...the double digit losing streaks... <_<

[Guest e-bone]

...the double digit losing streaks...

Yeah, but since JJ hasn't led us to a Sun Belt championship then there is a double standard! Wait... what?

[drex]

We need:

1. Major promotions for basketball home games, like there is for football.

As an example, promoting pre-game events such as parties, bands, etc.

2. There is heat put on the women's program to get out their constituency

for their games. There are a lot of women who would help Tina.

For those of you old enough to remember the Athletic Top 20 put 7,000 in the SuperPit for 'Pack the Pit Night' when the team had only won 3 games thus far. In other words, basketball needs some attention.

[GrayEagle]

JJ is a class guy and a definite improvement in x's and o's. His lack of improvement is tied to recruiting. However, who knows where we might be had Mark Wilson stayed and Rice have qualified?

Football is going very well now but remember when DD was halfway through his fourth season and was 8-30 before turning it around. Johnny hasn't dug himself that deep a hole yet.

Williams and Sturns look to be his two best recruits yet, if he can keep them. I think that he will. He needs another good, big man and a top notch point guard and I think that he'll be on his way. One or two JUCOs are okay but he needs a couple of top freshmen each year. I think that he achieved that goal this year.

[GMoney]

Keep one thing in mind, DD was given time to try and turn his program around. This included teams ending their long losing streaks against us (UNLV, Baylor, ULM). It was not until the 0-5 start in 2000 that people started to lose their nerve. However, he was still given time fight through those set backs.

The expectations are there for JJ and like DD he's bringing a program from rock bottom and that will take some time. Also, like DD let him have his recruiting class get through their senior year before you decide if the program is moving in a positive direction. When JJ came in (actually before he got here), he lost a lot of talent that transferred away (Miller, Erskin, injury to Hopkins). It's not easy to replace 3/5ths of your team.

If there is one thing to learn from the football program and DD it is not to judge too quickly. Let the coaches work their system, get their players in, let those players mature in the system and then see what happens.

[GreenFlag]

All great points GMoney but I do disagree on two fronts. 1) DD had major heat on him well before the ULM loss. He was preaching patience but there was none. 2) There seems to be a MUCH quicker turn time in BB than FB regarding turnover of the team. JJ has recruited a lot of JUCO's that are 2 years and out. Seven of the twelve recruits by JJ have been either JUCO's or transfers. There were only four players on this years squad that Vic recruited and that was Hopkins, Smith, Rogers and Barnett. Man I hope next years freshmen are some serious studs.

What I would like to see is some freshmen unseating upperclassmen for starting positions ala Brandon Kennedy, Jonas Buckles and Scott Hall in FB a few years ago. That was when I knew the fb program was getting better.

With all of that being said, I like JJ and he seems to have gotten some bad breaks as far as guys not showing up or quitting. But isn't that a big part of how coaches at the Div 1 level are deemed effective? I really do like the guy but I have some concerns.

Edited March 29, 2004 by GreenFlag

[Guest e-bone]

You don't want him to recruit JUCO players but you want him to win now, which is quite contradictory. If he hadn't of gotten the JUCO players and transfers the last couple of years, we wouldn't have been in the Sun Belt tournament this last season, much less beat the champ in the regular season and barely lose to the other championship game team in two overtimes in the tournament. Unless you are Duke and have 3 or more all american freshmen coming in every year, you have to recruit JUCO players to stay competitive.

[GreenFlag]

Let me explain. JUCO's are fine but the drawback is 2 years and gone. Utah State has been very successful with JUCO's. They just seem to be able to reload with them every year. Sure I would like to win now but being able to see young guys unseat some of the older guys in the starting rotation would be nice. I just want to see the program IMPROVING. I know comparing the fb program to the bb program is like camparing apples to oranges but I would like to see JUCO's compliment a solid foundation of 4 year players like we do in fb. If we are improving the program every year then I am a happy man.

If we are going the JUCO route then fine, let's win next year and every year after. Whatever works. That just seems like shaky ground to me.

[KPFC Sports Dept.]

I have missed one home game in the last four seasons and I am sold on the fact that Coach Jones is the man for the job. He has a background of recruiting well so while he hasn't done super here yet, he has earned the benefit of the doubt in that area. But to see the difference in the way this team plays is the most telling. Come from behind wins, hustling, much improved team defense...those are the type of things that tell me things are getting better. I'm not just saying this as a homer or anything like that. I honestly think Jones can take us where we want. If I were an AD and I had to have a winning basketball program or lose my job, I would trust Coach Jones with making the team into a winner. Not saying RV is on thin ice or anything, just illustrating my point. Give him a little more time, I think his drive to succeed is so strong that he will get there, and in my humble opnion, it's only a matter of time.

[GMoney]

All great points GMoney but I do disagree on two fronts. 1) DD had major heat on him well before the ULM loss. He was preaching patience but there was none. 2) There seems to be a MUCH quicker turn time in BB than FB regarding turnover of the team. JJ has recruited a lot of JUCO's that are 2 years and out. Seven of the twelve recruits by JJ have been either JUCO's or transfers. There were only four players on this years squad that Vic recruited and that was Hopkins, Smith, Rogers and Barnett. Man I hope next years freshmen are some serious studs.

If my memory serves me correctly DD was going into his third year in 2001. If he was getting flack after two seasons then those blasting him are truly idiots and no wonder he is so bitter. However, I don't remember hearing it until the 0-5 start and the loss to ULM.

As for the quicker turn around in basketball, it happens. However, when it does it's usually big time news (meaning that it is rare, example UTEP). But let me say this. Excluding last year which was just horrible injury wise, what hasn't JJ done to improve the program and get it headed in the right direction? He took over an awful team and his first year and went 500. Last year was a setback with injuries, but then this year he beat the conference champs, made it to the SBC tournament, played near 500 ball, and spent most of the year hanging around second in the division. And, he did all this without Swanson Johnson for the first half of the year and losing his starting point guard who got homesick.

I know we all want conference championships, but please. This guy has done nothing but improve.

As for JUCO verses non-juco, leave that up to the coaches. Let them decide what is best for their team. Some coaches never go JUCO and do fine (Duke) others love the JUCO route and do fine (Cincy). Let's also remember that some of the JUCO's JJ brought in was due loss of some pretty good players. He had to try a field a team that was going to be somewhat competitive. Heck, what would the this board being saying if he didn't do that? I'd hate to see that.

[Guest e-bone]

Let's also remember that some of the JUCO's JJ brought in was due loss of some pretty good players.  He had to try a field a team that was going to be somewhat competitive.  Heck, what would the this board being saying if he didn't do that?  I'd hate to see that.

Exactly. If people are complaining after this season then basketball has even less support than I had originally thought.

[GreenFlag]

If my memory serves me correctly DD was going into his third year in 2001. If he was getting flack after two seasons then those blasting him are truly idiots and no wonder he is so bitter. However, I don't remember hearing it until the 0-5 start and the loss to ULM.

Your memory doesn't even come close to serving you correctly on this one. He had a bullseye on the back of his head after the first draw play on 3rd and long. BTW, I think 2001 was his fourth season. If my memory serves me correctly then Harry is the only non-idiot around here because he was the ONLY, and I mean ONLY guy around here not bitching about Dickey very early on. I'm glad I was wrong about him. Hell, thinking about how DD built the program got me to start thinking about this. Even early on with DD the upgarde in talent was clear even when it wasn't showing in the win-loss column.

If you think I'm taking aim at JJ you are WRONG.

[GreenFlag]

Ok, here's a good question. When Tim Jankovich and Jimmy Gales were terminated, both made reference to how difficult it was to recruit to North Texas. Why?

[NT80]

Ok, here's a good question. When Tim Jankovich and Jimmy Gales were terminated, both made reference to how difficult it was to recruit to North Texas. Why?

NT should be easy to recruit for. Good location, quality education, great facility, Division I program, yada, yada. I don't buy the recruiting vodoo. Football and other sports do OK recruiting to NT. It's not like you have to find 25 new players each season. Bill Blakeley didn't complain about recruiting, in fact he was about to bring Spud Webb to North Texas.

Edited March 30, 2004 by NT80

[KPFC Sports Dept.]

The facility doesn't matter if it is three quarters empty when the recruit visits. Blame tip times and team performance all day, but our attendance is inexcusable. The recruits may feel like their high school games have better atmosphere.

Football has one BIG advantage on basketball right now, and it's why I don't think they are in the same ballpark recruiting wise right now - TV games. IMHO, this is HUGE in getting premier recruits in college sports and the football team has a lot to offer there and basketball has next to nothing.

Pretty much, Coach Jones is selling a future...we can turn it around, pack the pit, play on TV. The football team has a precedent for it, come here play for a champion, play on national TV a couple of times, most others on at least regionally, see a full Fouts.

Just my observations on college recruiting which as we all know is as an inexact science as there ever was.

[GrandGreen]

NT should be easy to recruit for. Good location, quality education, great facility, Division I program, yada, yada. I don't buy the recruiting vodoo. Football and other sports do OK recruiting to NT. It's not like you have to find 25 new players each season. Bill Blakeley didn't complain about recruiting, in fact he was about to bring Spud Webb to North Texas.

Bill Blakeley not only complained, that is what got him fired. Back in the day, college coaches were popular guests on the sports talk shows. Bill took that opportunity more then once to lament NT's almost non existent basketball recruiting budget and what little support was available for the program. Not a wise decision to publically bash your own program if you want to stay employed. For the record, Blakeley was not very successful recruiting. His three 20 games winning seasons were largely a result of having inherited a lot of talent recruited by Gene Robbins. Fred Mitchell, Melvin Davis, Kenneth Williams, Terry Bailey, and Carl Jones were all recruited by Robbins and staff.

[NT80]

Bill Blakeley not only complained, that is what got him fired.  Back in the day, college coaches were popular guests on the sports talk shows.  Bill took that opportunity more then once to lament NT's almost non existent basketball recruiting budget and what little support was available for the program.  Not a wise decision to publically bash your own program if you want to stay employed.  For the record, Blakeley was not very successful recruiting.  His three 20 games winning seasons were largely a result of having inherited a lot of talent recruited by Gene Robbins.  Fred Mitchell, Melvin Davis, Kenneth Williams, Terry Bailey, and Carl Jones were all recruited by Robbins and staff.

Blakeley had a lot of frustration after Fry left. I do think NT had better crowds back then than now. He got us home games with Texas and DePaul and other better known programs. Blakeley did recruit some good players like Ken Lyons, Jon Manning, Weasel Johnson, Ken Robinson, etc.

Nelson , Bill - - - 1982-1983 - - Bill Blakeley

Smith , Mookie - 6'2 - F - 1982-1983 - - Bill Blakeley

Grissom , Greg - 6'10 - C - 1981-1982 - - Bill Blakeley

Horrocks , John - 7'0 - C - 1981-1982 - - Bill Blakeley

Johnson , Wayne "Pee Wee" - - G - 1981-1982 - - Bill Blakeley

Williams , Merritt - - - 1981-1982 - - Bill Blakeley

Dupree , Javan - 6'4 - F - 1980-1981 - Paschal HS , Ft. Worth, TX - Bill Blakeley

Gales , John - 6'6 - F - 1980-1981 - Trimble Tech - Bill Blakeley

Hamlin , Div - 6'5 - F - 1980-1981 - - Bill Blakeley

McDade , Fred - 6'3 - G - 1980-1981 - Denton HS , Denton, TX - Bill Blakeley

Taylor , Delonte - 6'4 - G - 1980-1981 - TCU , Washington DC - Bill Blakeley

Hicks , Pat - 6'2 - PG - 1979-1980 - Madison HS , Houston - Bill Blakeley

Lyons , Kenneth - 6'7 - SF - 1979-1980 - Trimble Tech , Ft Worth, TX - Bill Blakeley

Macalik , Tony - 6'7 - SF - 1979-1980 - Skyline HS , Dallas, TX - Bill Blakeley

Nealy , Furmia - 6'1 - PG - 1979-1980 - Dunbar HS , Ft Worth, TX - Bill Blakeley

Taylor , Michael - 6'3 - - 1979-1980 - - Bill Blakeley

Guon , Mike - 6'6 - SF - 1978-1979 - - Bill Blakeley

Hardaway , Billy - - - 1978-1979 - - Bill Blakeley

Malion , Bernt - 6'6 - F - 1978-1979 - - Bill Blakeley

Vasher , David - 6'3 - BG - 1978-1979 - Wilmer Hutchins , Dallas, TX - Bill Blakeley

Williams , Al - - - 1978-1979 - - Bill Blakeley

Gamble , James - 6'2 - PG - 1977-1978 - Lincoln HS , Port Arthur, TX - Bill Blakeley

Gardner , Charles - 6'7 - F - 1977-1978 - , Searcy, AK - Bill Blakeley

Manning , Jon - 6'2 - BG - 1977-1978 - Oklahoma City Univ. , Pontiac, MI - Bill Blakeley

Adkisson , David - 6'7 - C - 1976-1977 - Lake Dallas HS , Lake Dallas, TX - Bill Blakeley

Boyd , Greg - 6'3 - G - 1976-1977 - Denton HS , Denton, TX - Bill Blakeley

Kaspar , Danny - 6'3 - BG - 1976-1977 - King HS , Corpus Christi - Bill Blakeley

McMillian , Charles - 6'3 - BG - 1976-1977 - Tyler JC , Dallas, TX (SOC) - Bill Blakeley

Robinson , Ken - 6'8 - C - 1976-1977 - North Lamar HS , Paris, TX - Bill Blakeley

Smoak , Craig - 6'7 - C - 1976-1977 - , Brooklyn, NY - Bill Blakeley

Wise , Danny - 6'6 - F - 1976-1977 - Milby HS , Houston, TX - Bill Blakeley

Johnson , Walter "Weasel" - 6'0 - PG - 1975-1976 - McLennan JC , Houston, TX (Milby) - Bill Blakeley

Lister , Waymond - 6'3 - BG - 1975-1976 - South Oak Cliff , Dallas, TX - Bill Blakeley

Miles , Norvell - 6'3 - BG - 1975-1976 - Navarro JC , Dallas, TX (SOC) - Bill Blakeley

Teddar , Paul - 6'9 - C - 1975-1976 - Richardson , Richardson, TX - Bill Blakeley