North Texas to Mountain West?

meanrob · June 25, 2019

I used to be a firm no to the MW but after a few years in CUSA I’ve switched to a limp yes.

However I don’t see it happening.

LongJim · June 25, 2019

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

Would we draw lager home crowds with the MWC? I believe so.

Lager, ale...I'll take either.

MeanGreen2019 · June 25, 2019

4 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

When TCU was in the conference they outspent everyone else by a significant margin. We'll be coming in closer to the bottom. We'd need to upgrade our budget, staff and talent to replicate what TCU did in the MWC. Not saying we couldn't be competitive, but TCU DOMINATED that conference (at least on the football field) and used it to leap-frog out.

Generally curious about how much TCU spent compared to the rest of the conference.....

Harry · June 25, 2019

20 minutes ago, GreenTexan13 said:

Side note to think about: TCU was once in the MWC and was a top tier team in the conference.. Look where they are now..

That's funny I was thinking the same thing. Of course I believe BYU was in the Mountain West at that time as well as some other programs who are no longer there. I am still pro-CUSA but more open to Mountain West than before.

Legend500 · June 25, 2019

Mountain West won't happen without a "travel" "partner." #GoCollegeofMines

If they did make such a move, I don't think AAC sits around and does nothing - letting the Mountain back into Texas would have SMU and Houston screaming just like it was the early 2000s again. I'd expect the AAC to counter by inviting us and either Rice or UTSA.

At that point, it's an easy choice in my book - the AAC is the resurrected husk of an FBS-level MVC, but with SMU a member now as well.

MeanGreen2019 · June 25, 2019

2 minutes ago, MeanGreen2019 said:

Generally curious about how much TCU spent compared to the rest of the conference.....

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-ceo/2012/january-february/why-tcu-bet-big-on-football/

Found how much they spent 10 years ago. Went from 21 million to 51 million a year. I believe we spend 36 million a year. So that is approximately an increase of 150%. That would bring us to around 90 million. Don’t know how that compared to the rest of the MWC at that time though.

untjim1995 · June 25, 2019

If we go to the MWC, it’ll be with at least one or three CUSA West teams. I truly believe the MWC would hit a homerun by adding UTEP, UTSA, UNT, and La Tech.

Edited June 25, 2019 by untjim1995

Harry · June 25, 2019

37 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I don't think we really need a travel partner

I really like being able to attend away games and I know it helps recruiting to tell a kid that we will have games there in his hometown... it helps believe me. Having 4 schools in Texas is super sweet to me.. it ties us with the Big 12 in terms of being the conference with the most Texas schools. I also think that the C-USA 2.0 was built on the potential of certain programs, ie FIU, FAU, Old Dominion, UTSA etc.. I can see a nitemare scenario where we leave C-USA only to see it grow and reach higher levels of success. Then again maybe not.

Here's the upside for Mountain West, we would give them the DFW market. Do we own DFW no, but they can use us being here to their recruiting and marketing advantage for sure. They have some great destination schools like Vegas, Reno, San Diego, Hawaii. From being at the bowl game in Dec I can attest to the fact that New Mexico has nice facilities and Albuquerque is a fun town.

The downside will be our travel costs will go through the roof. Remember its not just football with 6 games a year its basketball, soccer etc...

As far as budgets -- I think with the focus on student debt and tuition rising, schools like Tulsa and Tulane etc are going to have a harder time trying to justify spending so much money on athletics. But I also understand that the schools who pay their fair share want to be associated with others that do the same. Same goes for facilities.

Wag Tag · June 25, 2019

37 minutes ago, GreenTexan13 said:

I was a no on MWC, but now I am teeter tottering on it after reading some of your comments. The thing that is so unappealing is the travel involved. I saw mentioned that our fanbase would not travel well and I think that is a valid excuse as to why it may not be a good idea. What is New Mexico the closest school to North Texas? And that is like a 9 hour drive? UNLV would be a cheap flight, Since you can fly Spirit to Vegas on pennies from when I have gone there in the past. I couldn't see why flights to Colorado would be to expensive either. I'm just skeptical of fans traveling when it starts getting to long to drive a car after work on a Friday to go see the big game Saturday... Plus, how well do MWC teams travel?

Why I am changing my mind, is conference reputation. Boise State is highly regarded, and have put the MWC at the big boys table. I could not understand why the MWC would at all be opposed to adding UNT, since the DFW market would be something of tremendous value to that conference.

Side note to think about: TCU was once in the MWC and was a top tier team in the conference.. Look where they are now..

Travel is an issue. Would you rather travel to Shreveport or play Boise at home? Drive to UTSA or play CSU at home? Keep SMU and Houston on the schedule and you will have plenty of away games. You could keep UTSA as an out of conf game. Plus it is $600,000 more in TV. You take it in a heartbeat!

NorthTexasWeLove · June 25, 2019

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

I really like being able to attend away games and I know it helps recruiting to tell a kid that we will have games there in his hometown... it helps believe me. Having 4 schools in Texas is super sweet to me.. it ties us with the Big 12 in terms of being the conference with the most Texas schools. I also think that the C-USA 2.0 was built on the potential of certain programs, ie FIU, FAU, Old Dominion, UTSA etc.. I can see a nitemare scenario where we leave C-USA only to see it grow and reach higher levels of success. Then again maybe not.

Here's the upside for Mountain West, we would give them the DFW market. Do we own DFW no, but they can use us being here to their recruiting and marketing advantage for sure. They have some great destination schools like Vegas, Reno, San Diego, Hawaii. From being at the bowl game in Dec I can attest to the fact that New Mexico has nice facilities and Albuquerque is a fun town.

The downside will be our travel costs will go through the roof. Remember its not just football with 6 games a year its basketball, soccer etc...

As far as budgets -- I think with the focus on student debt and tuition rising, schools like Tulsa and Tulane etc are going to have a harder time trying to justify spending so much money on athletics. But I also understand that the schools who pay their fair share want to be associated with others that do the same. Same goes for facilities.

It helps, I agree. But it's not a necessity. MWC is at 12 universities right now. It could add 2 schools and slide 2 east MWC programs over to the west div and insert us and one other there to make it to 14. I would prefer LaTech as a travel partner though. Rice and UTEP are typically terrible most years. UTEP has basketball history, but that's all it is; history. Rice has great academics and a decent baseball program. But both of those programs are in a self created rut (Rice Academics/no support) and a geographical rut (UTEP). LaTech has good fan support and a good football program. La Tech doesn't really add a market to the MWC, but they have stability and respectability. And in this day and age of media, that might have a higher value in the near future than actual markets.

Oh, and then nutsack. But I think the NCAA committee made a mistake allowing a junior college play D1 football. That needs to be looked at.

Edited June 25, 2019 by NorthTexasWeLove

GreenTexan13 · June 25, 2019

9 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Travel is an issue. Would you rather travel to Shreveport or play Boise at home? Drive to UTSA or play CSU at home? Keep SMU and Houston on the schedule and you will have plenty of away games. You could keep UTSA as an out of conf game. Plus it is $600,000 more in TV. You take it in a heartbeat!

Another thing to think about is time zones. How will playing in the MWC impact the times we play on TV and here in Texas?

21 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

If we go to the MWC, it’ll be with at least one or three CUSA West teams. I truly believe the MWC would hit a homerun by adding UTEP, UTSA, UNT, and La Tech.

This will make jumping ship more appealing. If we have a travel partner that is much.. much.. much more appealing. I think Rice would be considered too. But LA Tech would be the best travel partner to have IMO.

LongJim · June 25, 2019

MWC is not a good fit for UNT as it stands--IMO--and I doubt it ever will be.

MeanGreenTexan · June 25, 2019

17 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It helps, I agree. But it's not a necessity. MWC is at 12 universities right now. It could add 2 schools and slide 2 east MWC programs over to the west div and insert us and one other there to make it to 14. I would prefer LaTech as a travel partner though. Rice and UTEP are typically terrible most years. UTEP has basketball history, but that's all it is; history. Rice has great academics and a decent baseball program. But both of those programs are in a self created rut (Rice Academics/no support) and a geographical rut (UTEP). LaTech has good fan support and a good football program. La Tech doesn't really add a market to the MWC, but they have stability and respectability. And in this day and age of media, that might have a higher value in the near future than actual markets.

Oh, and then nutsack. But I think the NCAA committee made a mistake allowing a junior college play D1 football. That needs to be looked at.

For sure. LA Tech fans would be good ones to ask since they joined C-USA with us from the WAC back in 2013.

DeepGreen · June 25, 2019

I have no problem moving over to the MWC should we get an invite. Correct me if I'm wrong, but an open spot in the MWC only comes if an existing MWC team moves over to the AAC. Correct? I just don't see it happening. Why someone like a Boise State, Colorado State, or Fresno, etc., want to park their football team "cross country" in the AAC? Whoever makes that decision at any of the MWC universities should have their head examined. smut would be the closest school in the conference??

Hunter Green · June 25, 2019

2 hours ago, Harry said:

If there is one thing I have learned through several renditions of the conference realignment is you don't use the fans anecdotes as gospel.

I will admit I have not been interested in the Mountain West (at all) and would prefer being able to play Texas teams and have the option to travel to games. I like the current configuration of C-USA west and the teams in it. That said, it intrigued me that this sportswriter had caught wind of some North Texas interest from the Mountain West. These sportswriters like @Brett VitoVito all know one another and in my mind lend more credibility to rumors etc.

Here's why - we see Colorado State recruiting here in Texas a lot as well as San Diego State, Utah State, New Mexico and heck even Boise from time to time. It would seem to me that it would be beneficial for them to be able to tell recruits and their families that they will have games in Texas.

So let me state clearly, I am still supportive of C-USA West and would love to be in AAC with Houston and SMU/Tulsa etc. That said color me intrigued with Mountain West IF they would give us a Texas travel partner like Rice...

here's the reality of that league from a travel perspective:

Air Force (Colorado Springs)

Boise State (Idaho)

Colorado State (Fort Collins)

Hawaii (Manoa)

Nevada (Reno)

New Mexico (Albuquerque)

San Diego State

San Jose

UNLV (Vegas)

Utah State (Logan)

Wyoming (Laramie)

I could make none of those games. Give me the AAC!

MeanGreenTexan · June 25, 2019

5 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

I could make none of those games. Give me the AAC!

I think the idea is a hypothetical: "If no AAC invite, but MWC extended one, do you stay in C-USA with your comfy Texas footprint and dance with the one who brought you? Or do you risk being on an island with a substantial cost bump for more national attention"?

Otherwise, Give me the SEC!

southsideguy · June 25, 2019

I think a bigger shake ups are on the way. With the P-5 getting all the money the other conferences are going to have figure out what is best for them. I would think regional conference would be better. People can travel to the away games and it will save the universities in travel costs. I don't know how it will shake out but I think this is the only option. I know SMU thinks they better than us but in reality the teams are very close. What is SMU biggest attended games, TCU and UNT. SMU brings like 12 people to Denton. We will see when the next realignment comes around.

UNT Texas Hooligan · June 25, 2019

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It helps, I agree. But it's not a necessity. MWC is at 12 universities right now. It could add 2 schools and slide 2 east MWC programs over to the west div and insert us and one other there to make it to 14. I would prefer LaTech as a travel partner though. Rice and UTEP are typically terrible most years. UTEP has basketball history, but that's all it is; history. Rice has great academics and a decent baseball program. But both of those programs are in a self created rut (Rice Academics/no support) and a geographical rut (UTEP). LaTech has good fan support and a good football program. La Tech doesn't really add a market to the MWC, but they have stability and respectability. And in this day and age of media, that might have a higher value in the near future than actual markets.

Oh, and then nutsack. But I think the NCAA committee made a mistake allowing a junior college play D1 football. That needs to be looked at.

I never understood why there was so much hype for UTEP to join the MWC. Other than geography, how does it make sense? UTEP doesn't support athletics as it is, would they all of a sudden start caring if they changed conferences? Maybe since Natalicio has retired but it would probably take them a while. They stink it up here so then what? They go to what is perceived to be a superior conference, what keeps them from stinking it up there too? And honestly, what value do they add other than a good cross country and track team? (son of a UTEP grad so I follow UTEP by proxy) Agreed on all of your points. Especially on the glorified community college that UTSA is.

Edited June 25, 2019 by UNT Texas Hooligan

NorthTexasWeLove · June 25, 2019

6 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

I never understood why there was so much hype for UTEP to join the MWC. Other than geography, how does it make sense? UTEP doesn't support athletics as it is, would they all of a sudden start caring if they changed conferences? Maybe since Natalicio has retired but it would probably take them a while. They stink it up here so then what? They go to what is perceived to be a superior conference, what keeps them from stinking it up there too? And honestly, what value do they add other than a good cross country and track team? (son of a UTEP grad so I follow UTEP by proxy) Agreed on all of your points. Especially on the glorified community college that UTSA is.

It's their ties to the New Mexico schools which is tied into their location. They offer nothing. In their defense, UTEP and the city of El Paso do support their programs when they are good. They put over 40K in the Sun Bowl when their team is at least decent and their opponent is worthy. They also support the basketball team when they're good. The problem is that their support and competitiveness are conjoined at the hip. Yes, most programs can say that. Support and success go hand in hand even if the support is only marginal. UTEP's issue is that their competitiveness is so unpredictable and sporadic their support becomes desolate until they can find a way to be at least OK. They are in a geographical nightmare and there's not a single thing they can do about it.

Travis · June 25, 2019

Hell yes to the MWC. More prestigous in all the main sports than CUSA. Totally worth being affiliated with even if a difference in time zones and distance. They are head and shoulders above our current conference and it would be a huge step up. The name power is far greater than us Sun Belt 2.0.

UNT Texas Hooligan · June 25, 2019

6 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It's their ties to the New Mexico schools which is tied into their location. They offer nothing. In their defense, UTEP and the city of El Paso do support their programs when they are good. They put over 40K in the Sun Bowl when their team is at least decent and their opponent is worthy. They also support the basketball team when they're good. The problem is that their support and competitiveness are conjoined at the hip. Yes, most programs can say that. Support and success go hand in hand even if the support is only marginal. UTEP's issue is that their competitiveness is so unpredictable and sporadic their support becomes desolate until they can find a way to be at least OK. They are in a geographical nightmare and there's not a single thing they can do about it.

I'm from El Paso so definitely preaching to the choir. And agreed on everything you said. They are so sporadic in supporting their teams, it can be pathetic. There is not much to do in EP anyway yet the teams are sooo bad that people still won't show up. Back on topic though, I think UTEP to MWC would be a nightmare. They are whipping boys now, I can't imagine that changing in that conference

HoustonEagle · June 25, 2019

I actually think Houston and SMU might not be as disagreeable to us being in the AAC as some here think. Lets get down to brass tacks. Games between the three schools would garner better attendance and TV viewership than most of their schedule. The close proximity of the three schools would help reduce travel expenses and allow those funds to be used elsewhere. Now that UNT is good in pretty much every sport we will not lower their strength of schedule that much. So are their fans not excited to have us? Yes. But I think leadership views us more positively.

El Paso Eagle · June 25, 2019

56 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

I'm from El Paso so definitely preaching to the choir. And agreed on everything you said. They are so sporadic in supporting their teams, it can be pathetic. There is not much to do in EP anyway yet the teams are sooo bad that people still won't show up. Back on topic though, I think UTEP to MWC would be a nightmare. They are whipping boys now, I can't imagine that changing in that conference

Now that they have a new President maybe they will do what we have done and invest (Previous President, Dr. Natalicio did not give a crap about the athletic teams). In addition they have a relativity new AD. If UTEP had 7-8 win seasons they would average 40K-45K. Hell, a 9-10 win team might put 50K in the Sun Bowl.