North Texas to Mountain West?

Harry · June 25, 2019

NORTH TEXAS

Pros: No C-USA school is doing a better job of investing in facilities than UNT, which has also earned some buzz as a future member of the Mountain West Conference. The football program is ascendant and it’s not inconceivable that UNT could work as a football-only member.

Cons: The AAC already features SMU in the Dallas-Fort Worth market and there’s not much love between the two programs. Even with a beautiful football stadium and a winning team, attendance continues to lag for UNT football. The Mountain West Conference may be a better possibility down the road.

read more: https://www.sunherald.com/sports/college/conference-usa/university-of-southern-mississippi/article231899688.html

Read more here: https://www.sunherald.com/sports/college/conference-usa/university-of-southern-mississippi/article231899688.html#storylink=cpy

untbowler · June 25, 2019

yes please, get a chance take it.

UNT Texas Hooligan · June 25, 2019

1 hour ago, Harry said:

NORTH TEXAS

Pros: No C-USA school is doing a better job of investing in facilities than UNT, which has also earned some buzz as a future member of the Mountain West Conference. The football program is ascendant and it’s not inconceivable that UNT could work as a football-only member.

Cons: The AAC already features SMU in the Dallas-Fort Worth market and there’s not much love between the two programs. Even with a beautiful football stadium and a winning team, attendance continues to lag for UNT football. The Mountain West Conference may be a better possibility down the road.

read more: https://www.sunherald.com/sports/college/conference-usa/university-of-southern-mississippi/article231899688.html

To me, this makes the most sense and what I think is the most likely scenario. AAC raids the Mountain West, opening up a path for us to join the Mountain West.

keith · June 25, 2019

I'm not sure I get the whole, "xxx already has a school in the yyy market" argument these days. In the particular case of SMU and UNT neither one of us "owns" the DFW market. At best, C-USA and the AAC split/share a small fraction of it. Wouldn't it be better for a conference to try and consolidate two small shares of a large market than try to garner a small fraction of another market?

meangreenlax · June 25, 2019

If it’s an option sure. The AAC is a better fit in my opinion but I’m team #anywherebutCUSA.

Judging from comments from fans of MW teams, they really don’t see the upside to North Texas.

golfingomez · June 25, 2019

give me da mountain west.

RiseUNT · June 25, 2019

24 minutes ago, meangreenlax said:

If it’s an option sure. The AAC is a better fit in my opinion but I’m team #anywherebutCUSA.

Judging from comments from fans of MW teams, they really don’t see the upside to North Texas.

Mac or Sunbelt?

Wag Tag · June 25, 2019

Would we draw lager home crowds with the MWC? I believe so.

Harry · June 25, 2019

28 minutes ago, meangreenlax said:

If it’s an option sure. The AAC is a better fit in my opinion but I’m team #anywherebutCUSA.

Judging from comments from fans of MW teams, they really don’t see the upside to North Texas.

If there is one thing I have learned through several renditions of the conference realignment is you don't use the fans anecdotes as gospel.

I will admit I have not been interested in the Mountain West (at all) and would prefer being able to play Texas teams and have the option to travel to games. I like the current configuration of C-USA west and the teams in it. That said, it intrigued me that this sportswriter had caught wind of some North Texas interest from the Mountain West. These sportswriters like @Brett VitoVito all know one another and in my mind lend more credibility to rumors etc.

Here's why - we see Colorado State recruiting here in Texas a lot as well as San Diego State, Utah State, New Mexico and heck even Boise from time to time. It would seem to me that it would be beneficial for them to be able to tell recruits and their families that they will have games in Texas.

So let me state clearly, I am still supportive of C-USA West and would love to be in AAC with Houston and SMU/Tulsa etc. That said color me intrigued with Mountain West IF they would give us a Texas travel partner like Rice...

here's the reality of that league from a travel perspective:

Air Force (Colorado Springs)

Boise State (Idaho)

Colorado State (Fort Collins)

Hawaii (Manoa)

Nevada (Reno)

New Mexico (Albuquerque)

San Diego State

San Jose

UNLV (Vegas)

Utah State (Logan)

Wyoming (Laramie)

MeanGreenTexan · June 25, 2019

7 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Would we draw lager home crowds with the MWC? I believe so.

This is going to get some blowback, but I agree. Especially since some of the opponents would be ranked, and if NT could continue to play at the level we're playing at now, or improve, we'd have an easier time getting ranked as well.

10-3 in the MWC will get more eyes on you (re:votes) than 10-3 in CUSA... ask 2017 FAU.

keith · June 25, 2019

15 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Would we draw lager home crowds with the MWC? I believe so.

Larger than potential AAC teams or larger than our current C-USA configuration or both?

Harry · June 25, 2019

Here's some historical GMG discussions on this subject:

Christopher Walker · June 25, 2019

1 hour ago, keith said:

I'm not sure I get the whole, "xxx already has a school in the yyy market" argument these days. In the particular case of SMU and UNT neither one of us "owns" the DFW market. At best, C-USA and the AAC split/share a small fraction of it. Wouldn't it be better for a conference to try and consolidate two small shares of a large market than try to garner a small fraction of another market?

Agreed. I think there's more upside than down to even having TCU, SMU, and UNT all in the same conference, though probably not the same division.

untbowler · June 25, 2019

1 hour ago, meangreenlax said:

If it’s an option sure. The AAC is a better fit in my opinion but I’m team #anywherebutCUSA.

Judging from comments from fans of MW teams, they really don’t see the upside to North Texas.

can you blame them after they saw a coachless Utah St team demolish the team in New Mexico

Travis · June 25, 2019

Being in Boise now, I would love us to join the MWC!

untbowler · June 25, 2019

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

If there is one thing I have learned through several renditions of the conference realignment is you don't use the fans anecdotes as gospel.

I will admit I have not been interested in the Mountain West (at all) and would prefer being able to play Texas teams and have the option to travel to games. I like the current configuration of C-USA west and the teams in it. That said, it intrigued me that this sportswriter had caught wind of some North Texas interest from the Mountain West. These sportswriters like @Brett VitoVito all know one another and in my mind lend more credibility to rumors etc.

Here's why - we see Colorado State recruiting here in Texas a lot as well as San Diego State, Utah State, New Mexico and heck even Boise from time to time. It would seem to me that it would be beneficial for them to be able to tell recruits and their families that they will have games in Texas.

So let me state clearly, I am still supportive of C-USA West and would love to be in AAC with Houston and SMU/Tulsa etc. That said color me intrigued with Mountain West IF they would give us a Texas travel partner like Rice...

here's the reality of that league from a travel perspective:

Air Force (Colorado Springs)

Boise State (Idaho)

Colorado State (Fort Collins)

Hawaii (Manoa)

Nevada (Reno)

New Mexico (Albuquerque)

San Diego State

San Jose

UNLV (Vegas)

Utah State (Logan)

Wyoming (Laramie)

Fairly easy travel with Southwest flights out of Love Field

meangreenlax · June 25, 2019

Just now, untbowler said:

can you blame them after they saw a coachless Utah St team demolish the team in New Mexico

That definitely didn’t help things

Green Crazy · June 25, 2019

We would not travel well to those games to say the least.

KRAM1 · June 25, 2019

Just say NO to the MWC.

NorthTexasWeLove · June 25, 2019

35 minutes ago, Harry said:

If there is one thing I have learned through several renditions of the conference realignment is you don't use the fans anecdotes as gospel.

I will admit I have not been interested in the Mountain West (at all) and would prefer being able to play Texas teams and have the option to travel to games. I like the current configuration of C-USA west and the teams in it. That said, it intrigued me that this sportswriter had caught wind of some North Texas interest from the Mountain West. These sportswriters like @Brett VitoVito all know one another and in my mind lend more credibility to rumors etc.

Here's why - we see Colorado State recruiting here in Texas a lot as well as San Diego State, Utah State, New Mexico and heck even Boise from time to time. It would seem to me that it would be beneficial for them to be able to tell recruits and their families that they will have games in Texas.

So let me state clearly, I am still supportive of C-USA West and would love to be in AAC with Houston and SMU/Tulsa etc. That said color me intrigued with Mountain West IF they would give us a Texas travel partner like Rice...

here's the reality of that league from a travel perspective:

Air Force (Colorado Springs)

Boise State (Idaho)

Colorado State (Fort Collins)

Hawaii (Manoa)

Nevada (Reno)

New Mexico (Albuquerque)

San Diego State

San Jose

UNLV (Vegas)

Utah State (Logan)

Wyoming (Laramie)

I don't think we really need a travel partner. This is no different than having to play a CUSA-East team 2x a year. Or scheduling Army/Liberty in OOC as far as traveling goes. We would be in some rendition of the MWC-East. Playing the likes of both Colorado's, UNLV, USU, UNM then 2 west programs like Wyoming and Boise. Regionally, this is a lesser schedule for obvious reasons, but CUSA is crumbling under the current leadership and if given the chance to bolt we need to. Nationally, this would be step up in both perception and monetarily. You take it if it comes. No brainer.

Having Air Force, Boise, and Colorado State come to our stadium would boost attendance 4-5k a game.

NorthTexasWeLove · June 25, 2019

21 minutes ago, untbowler said:

can you blame them after they saw a coachless Utah St team demolish the team in New Mexico

Yeah, I can blame them. Most of them haven't been to Denton in years, if at all. They have no idea the trajectory of the program, the city we're located in and probably even the proximity to DFW. Let alone our stadium and current facility upgrades. They are just talking out of their ass because we don't have a crimson A on our helmet.

NorthTexasWeLove · June 25, 2019

11 minutes ago, Green Crazy said:

We would not travel well to those games to say the least.

Yeah. This is the only downfall to this sort of situation. Traveling fans would be sparse unless it's a very big game. I still think you take it. The draw of having SDSU, Boise, CSU, USU, Air Force coming to Apogee would probably neutralize the lack of opponent fans.

GreenTexan13 · June 25, 2019

I was a no on MWC, but now I am teeter tottering on it after reading some of your comments. The thing that is so unappealing is the travel involved. I saw mentioned that our fanbase would not travel well and I think that is a valid excuse as to why it may not be a good idea. What is New Mexico the closest school to North Texas? And that is like a 9 hour drive? UNLV would be a cheap flight, Since you can fly Spirit to Vegas on pennies from when I have gone there in the past. I couldn't see why flights to Colorado would be to expensive either. I'm just skeptical of fans traveling when it starts getting to long to drive a car after work on a Friday to go see the big game Saturday... Plus, how well do MWC teams travel?

Why I am changing my mind, is conference reputation. Boise State is highly regarded, and have put the MWC at the big boys table. I could not understand why the MWC would at all be opposed to adding UNT, since the DFW market would be something of tremendous value to that conference.

Side note to think about: TCU was once in the MWC and was a top tier team in the conference.. Look where they are now..

Edited June 25, 2019 by GreenTexan13

TIgreen01 · June 25, 2019

I don't necessarily like this idea but from a budget comparison we are at least in the ballpark. The high end of the MWC spends $51m/year with most clustered around $48m. The bottom 2 are USU and San Jose at $34m/$30m respectively. We'd fit in right above those 2. The lowest spender in the AAC is at $48m. We'd really be bringing up the rear-end there with a $12m/year gap between us and the next lowest budget.

I don't see USU being a fan draw in Denton, and really not CSU, Wyoming, New Mexico, etc either. The only two teams that might be a draw would be Boise and Air Force. The rest are just too far West. Also, an un-ranked Boise isn't drawing anymore interest or generating more fans at the gate than a UTEP or LaTech who always seem to bring plenty of their own fans. CUSA West is better for us from an ability to drive numbers at the gate, but the TV dollars might give the MWC the edge overall.

From an on the field/court perspectvie, the basketball in the MWC is head and shoulders better than CUSA and the football is at least viewed as being better (whether or not it actually is is up for debate). We'd need to significantly upgrade in basketball or we'd be a doormat.

TIgreen01 · June 25, 2019

11 minutes ago, GreenTexan13 said:

I was a no on MWC, but now I am teeter tottering on it after reading some of your comments. The thing that is so unappealing is the travel involved. I saw mentioned that our fanbase would not travel well and I think that is a valid excuse as to why it may not be a good idea. What is New Mexico the closest school to North Texas? And that is like a 9 hour drive? UNLV would be a cheap flight, Since you can fly Spirit to Vegas on pennies from when I have gone there in the past. I couldn't see why flights to Colorado would be to expensive either. I'm just skeptical of fans traveling when it starts getting to long to drive a car after work on a Friday to go see the big game Saturday... Plus, how well do MWC teams travel?

Why I am changing my mind, is conference reputation. Boise State is highly regarded, and have put the MWC at the big boys table. I could not understand why the MWC would at all be opposed to adding UNT, since the DFW market would be something of tremendous value to that conference.

Side note to think about: TCU was once in the MWC and was a top tier team in the conference.. Look where they are now..

When TCU was in the conference they outspent everyone else by a significant margin. We'll be coming in closer to the bottom. We'd need to upgrade our budget, staff and talent to replicate what TCU did in the MWC. Not saying we couldn't be competitive, but TCU DOMINATED that conference (at least on the football field) and used it to leap-frog out.