Where have we heard this before...

MeanGreenTexan · May 9, 2019

1 minute ago, SilverEagle said:

I believe the play that I have in mind is at the 4:46 point of this video

Gotcha. Another great throw by Shanbour there. A 19yd throw. Still very very different than a 55yd throw.

NorthTexasWeLove · May 9, 2019

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Gotcha. Another great throw by Shanbour there. A 19yd throw. Still very very different than a 55yd throw.

The more important piece of this we are missing is that UNT absolutely HAS to start wearing those white on white's more for road games.

SilverEagle · May 9, 2019

23 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Gotcha. Another great throw by Shanbour there. A 19yd throw. Still very very different than a 55yd throw.

From where he was standing it was 24 or 25 yards.

Harry · May 9, 2019

One other factor to consider when comparing Fine to the others is his quick release and touch in the deep ball. He gets rid of the ball so quickly and seems to hit receivers in stride. He has an amazing touch on his ball. He’s the best we’ve ever had without a doubt.

Aldo · May 9, 2019

24 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

From where he was standing it was 24 or 25 yards.

Oh.

MGNation92 · May 9, 2019

He's putting his whole body into this one, but this throw is damn near 60 yards:

Aldo · May 9, 2019

Shanbour had an opportunity to take the reins in Fine's first year, but he can't make all the throws. He managed to make swing passes look awkward.

Sure, Fine doesn't have the arm to throw it a controlled 50-60 yards. But he is very accurate in the short to moderate distances. Additionally, he can throw it off-balance and on the run. He's also got great anticipation, which led to the classic Bussey TD vs UTSA. He knows the game and he's quick to make decisions.

While the air raid does produce gawdy numbers due to increased opportunity, he's not a product of the system. He's a very talented qb.

MeanGreenHoops · May 9, 2019

22 minutes ago, Harry said:

One other factor to consider when comparing Fine to the others is his quick release and touch in the deep ball. He gets rid of the ball so quickly and seems to hit receivers in stride. He has an amazing touch on his ball. He’s the best we’ve ever had without a doubt.

I'm not sure you're paying attention. There clearly is some doubt 😛

UNTLifer · May 9, 2019

Joe Montana ended up with a fairly good and productive career and he wasn't considered to have a strong arm. Just sayin'

greenminer · May 10, 2019

I actually think Vizza and Fine seem very similar. Too bad for Gio he was running for his life all the time.

97and03 · May 10, 2019

The guy from DCTF just named Fine the best QB in Texas and NT fans are debating whether 1AA QBs and Thompson were better.

dos equis facepalm GIF by Dos Equis Gifs to the World

MGNation92 · May 10, 2019

52 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

The guy from DCTF just named Fine the best QB in Texas and NT fans are debating whether 1AA QBs and Thompson were better.

I haven't been around to see them all, but put me in the camp that Mason Fine is the greatest QB to ever play for UNT up until this point.

NorthTexasWeLove · May 10, 2019

10 hours ago, 97and03 said:

The guy from DCTF just named Fine the best QB in Texas and NT fans are debating whether 1AA QBs and Thompson were better.

I think 1 person is taking that stance.

MF is the best to do it in UNT history.

SilverEagle · May 10, 2019

2 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I think 1 person is taking that stance.

MF is the best to do it in UNT history.

Statistical QB in UNT history.

This year La Tech, UAB, Old Dominion, and last year (2017), FAU (twice) and Troy were pretty unimpressed with his stats. I left out USU because he didn't play all of the game.

MeanGreenTexan · May 10, 2019

1 hour ago, SilverEagle said:

Statistical QB in UNT history.

This year La Tech, UAB, Old Dominion, and last year (2017), FAU (twice) and Troy were pretty unimpressed with his stats. I left out USU because he didn't play all of the game.

I'm really confused as to why you would want to go out of your way to poo-poo on Mason Fine. Very weird.

SilverEagle · May 10, 2019

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I'm really confused as to why you would want to go out of your way to poo-poo on Mason Fine. Very weird.

I guess calling him "once in a lifetime" or the "greatest ever" annoys me. I guess it's the same reason I never liked all praise heaped on DD for the longest conference winning streak in school history. I mentioned that stat to my son (a UNT grad) as we were about to watch the NO bowl vs So. Miss. He just smiled and said "yeah, but how many of those NO bowl games did NT actually win? After we finished watching the So Miss bowl game, he just gave me a knowing smile and said nothing.

So, applying the same "bottom line" how have those video game stats translated into conference championships and/or bowl wins?

Meanwhile the #2 QB on Dave Campbell's list finishes up his year (where he got better as the year went along) leading his team to a win over Georgia in a major bowl.....and had a personal hand in three of the scores. We have only two QB's in the history of NT football that have lead us to a bowl win...…..neither of them are named Mason Fine.

So when you have a discussion/debate with a co-worker, or relative, or friend, about who's the greatest QB in Texas, get ready for that to be thrown in your face. Just a public service I try to provide my fellow NT grads/fans from time to time. No extra charge.

MeanGreenTexan · May 10, 2019

36 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

I guess calling him "once in a lifetime" or the "greatest ever" annoys me. I guess it's the same reason I never liked all praise heaped on DD for the longest conference winning streak in school history. I mentioned that stat to my son (a UNT grad) as we were about to watch the NO bowl vs So. Miss. He just smiled and said "yeah, but how many of those NO bowl games did NT actually win? After we finished watching the So Miss bowl game, he just gave me a knowing smile and said nothing.

So, applying the same "bottom line" how have those video game stats translated into conference championships and/or bowl wins?

Meanwhile the #2 QB on Dave Campbell's list finishes up his year (where he got better as the year went along) leading his team to a win over Georgia in a major bowl.....and had a personal hand in three of the scores. We have only two QB's in the history of NT football that have lead us to a bowl win...…..neither of them are named Mason Fine.

So when you have a discussion/debate with a co-worker, or relative, or friend, about who's the greatest QB in Texas, get ready for that to be thrown in your face. Just a public service I try to provide my fellow NT grads/fans from time to time. No extra charge.

OK. We've re-scoped the discussion a little, but that's OK.
I know you don't believe this, but Andrew Smith led us to one of those bowl game wins, ergo: Andrew Smith is a better QB than Fine.
HOWEVER, Derek Thompson etched his name all over the record books here and does have a bowl championship. Is bowl game glory the defining factor in determining how great a QB is? Are you saying Derek Thompson is a better QB than Mason Fine? Some of my most vivid memories of DT are 10-20yd overthrows (as in, happening multiple times) that hit the wall to the stands when he had WRs streaking free in the end zone. I've never seen those kinds of awful misses come off of Mason's arm, unless the ball was tipped at the line or something.
And I suppose I expect that kind of talk from the UT/A&M t-shirt fans as you pointed out in your last paragraph, but not from someone who has witnessed Fine on multiple occasions himself!

SilverEagle · May 10, 2019

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

OK. We've re-scoped the discussion a little, but that's OK.
I know you don't believe this, but Andrew Smith led us to one of those bowl game wins, ergo: Andrew Smith is a better QB than Fine.
HOWEVER, Derek Thompson etched his name all over the record books here and does have a bowl championship. Is bowl game glory the defining factor in determining how great a QB is? Are you saying Derek Thompson is a better QB than Mason Fine? Some of my most vivid memories of DT are 10-20yd overthrows (as in, happening multiple times) that hit the wall to the stands when he had WRs streaking free in the end zone. I've never seen those kinds of awful misses come off of Mason's arm, unless the ball was tipped at the line or something.
And I suppose I expect that kind of talk from the UT/A&M t-shirt fans as you pointed out in your last paragraph, but not from someone who has witnessed Fine on multiple occasions himself!

I think that calling him a once in a lifetime QB when he's never led the team to any sort of championship or bowl win is too much.

NorthTexasWeLove · May 10, 2019

1 minute ago, SilverEagle said:

I think that calling him a once in a lifetime QB when he's never led the team to any sort of championship or bowl win is too much.

I don't even consider the bowl or championship a reason for calling it too much. I know Fine is good, he's damn good. He is in fact the best QB UNT has had. But UNT hasn't really had a lot of good QB's and UNT hasn't ran this kind of offense either. Hopefully the new coach is promoted from within or at least hired from within the same tree/mindset. Another QB will flirt with these numbers if we make those hires, book it. Then, we will be sitting around circle jerking asking who's better, Mason or X QB? And I say this to take nothing away from Fine. He's done very well for himself and for UNT...He's the best that has done it...so far.

97and03 · May 10, 2019

57 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

I think that calling him a once in a lifetime QB when he's never led the team to any sort of championship or bowl win is too much.

To me, once in a lifetime is about talent. He has the on-field numbers to back that up.

Suddenly making it about conference championships or bowl wins is moving the goalposts. Even though we all wish we had a bowl win or two and a conference championship, we should at least acknowledge that Fine led the team to three bowls and a championship game. That isn’t small potatoes at NT.

SSAACOIC · May 12, 2019

On 5/6/2019 at 11:10 AM, SilverEagle said:

It is with great trepidation that I respond to the bolded section of the sentence on top as well as the one just above. Mainly because these discussions rarely end in any sort of agreements. But since I've gone this far......here goes.

To me, this is a discussion about talent, not systems. From my observation of Fine, he is in charge of a great system, installed by great systems coaches. He is great in the system because he is a great timing passer/thrower. And as I said of him when he was a freshman in fall practice, he oozes confidence from every pore. But he is not the best pure QB that ever played here. He threw the ball a lot in HS, and put up gaudy numbers, but when his HS came up against Lone Grove all that impressive passing resulted in a 0-64 loss. Someone obviously figured out how to disrupt his rhythm...….much like La Tech, USB, Old Dominion and Utah St.

MF has benefited from a great system put in place by great coaches. The only former NT QB that had anything even remotely close to the coaching MF has had was Mitch Maher who was (position) coached by Todd Dodge. But he played in a crappy facility, with crappy funding and crappy support from the administration. Not only did Mitch Maher have a better overall passing arm, as well as running ability (and like Fine he threw just was well on the run as in the pocket), but there are several other former NT QB's who did as well.

Scott Davis, Scott Hall, Gioanni Vizza, Joe Stevenson, Jason Mills, Jordan Case, and even Daniel Maeger (who still holds the single game passing record of 601 yards) had great throwing ability and great mobility. If any or all of these guys had been brought in at the same time as MF, and coached in the same system, it is my humble opinion that Mason Fine would have been sitting on the bench all this time.

Scott Hall put up 5900 yards in a primarily running system. In two of his four years, he spent a good amount of time handing the ball off to two national champion rushers. Scott Davis operated in a run-first system (the veer and the wishbone.....flying wishbone).

Mason Fine is a very precise timing passer, but if you mess with his timing/rhythm and/or his overachieving WR's are not going up and getting the ball, then the team is in danger of ending up like his Locust Grove team (0-64) in his senior year, or like our two times against FAU in 2017, with a Troy cherry on top in the NO bowl.

Just to put an asterisk by the Lone Grove game...Locust Grove had one bullet...Mason. The game was played in a mudhole better suited to a monster truck rally. The OHSAA said later that the game should have been postponed. Locust Grove’s coach said he never should have let his team take the field. Grove was a better team whose strong point was their ground game. My only point is that this game is not a barometer for Mason Fine’s abilities.

UNTLifer · May 12, 2019

On 5/10/2019 at 5:29 PM, SilverEagle said:

I think that calling him a once in a lifetime QB when he's never led the team to any sort of championship or bowl win is too much.

Championships require all 22 contributing not just one player.

SilverEagle · May 12, 2019

8 hours ago, SSAACOIC said:

Just to put an asterisk by the Lone Grove game...Locust Grove had one bullet...Mason. The game was played in a mudhole better suited to a monster truck rally. The OHSAA said later that the game should have been postponed. Locust Grove’s coach said he never should have let his team take the field. Grove was a better team whose strong point was their ground game. My only point is that this game is not a barometer for Mason Fine’s abilities...…..ability

And my point (and I hope this is the last time we have to have this back and fourth) is that Lone Grove made my point......take away ideal circumstances and........well......0-64 says it all. There are lots of Lone Groves out there and Lone Grove situations, as we found out with FAU (twice), Troy, and USU....not to mention the other close loses. IMHO, IF any number of previous North Texas QB's (Vizza, Maher, Davis, Hall or Case) would have started their careers in 2016 they would have learned the same system "timing throws". BUT the difference between them and Mason Fine is that they truly had "abilities" not an "ability". They would have found a way to score when they got close to the goal line. And on those short yardage situations in our close losses, they would have found a way to make the critical first downs.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Mason Fine operates with the new OC. I saw a lot of the same stuff in spring ball, but the real telling thing will be when we get in a critical situation in a game.