Tuition rates at UNT and other universities are skyrocketing

[Skipper]

For the 2018-2019 school year, UNT’s financial aid estimates the price of in-state tuition for an off-campus student, only including tuition and fees, at around $11,514 per semester, according to

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[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---The state provides less funding to public schools and colleges than it once did .....meanwhile  gives businesses tax cuts... This was especially true in the Gov. Perry era. (no fan of him) ...  The state once provided over 60% to public schools and now it is about 35% or less.   I can't remember exact numbers but my enrollment bill at NTSU or UNT in 1964 was in the area of $100-$150... not counting housing and food or books .. most books cost me about $15 or about $120 in 2019 dollars... (min wage was $1.15 then.). 

Edited June 17, 2019 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[greenminer]

On 5/9/2019 at 2:55 PM, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

---The state provides less funding to public schools and colleges than it once did .....meanwhile  gives businesses tax cuts... This was especially true in the Gov. Perry era. (no fan of him) ...  The state once provided over 60% to public schools and now it is about 35% or less.   I can't remember exact numbers but my enrollment bill at NTSU or UNT in 1966 was in the area of $100-$150... not counting housing and food or books .. most books cost me about $15 or about $120 in 2019 dollars... (min wage was $1.15 then.). 

I know this is a loaded question, but how long would you say it took your gen to pay off student loan debt?

[UNTLifer]

6 hours ago, greenminer said:

I know this is a loaded question, but how long would you say it took your gen to pay off student loan debt?

My tuition during the 80’s was more than @SCREAMING EAGLE-66 but much less than today. I don’t recall anyone taking out student loans during that time. I do remember a three payment plan that I utilized and people applying for aid and grants. 

[GBarksdale]

On 5/13/2019 at 8:10 AM, UNTLifer said:

My tuition during the 80’s was more than @SCREAMING EAGLE-66 but much less than today. I don’t recall anyone taking out student loans during that time. I do remember a three payment plan that I utilized and people applying for aid and grants. 

I was there in the 80s and had a couple of friends who took out loans.  For most, their parents paid the bill or, like me, they worked part time jobs.  I took around 12 hrs a semester and worked around 30 hours a week.  Took me 5 years, but I was able to pay my own way.  But tuition was reasonable then and it was fairly easy to work your way through if you could. 

But today's costs are insane.  It's virtually impossible for kids to work part time and pay their own now.

[UNTLifer]

3 minutes ago, GBarksdale said:

I was there in the 80s and had a couple of friends who took out loans.  For most, their parents paid the bill or, like me, they worked part time jobs.  I took around 12 hrs a semester and worked around 30 hours a week.  Took me 5 years, but I was able to pay my own way.  But tuition was reasonable then and it was fairly easy to work your way through if you could. 

But today's costs are insane.  It's virtually impossible for kids to work part time and pay their own now.

Just what I did as well.

[MGNation92]

It's almost as if the government giving out unrestricted subsidized loans would cause universities to raise costs to match those loans....

Government: Hey kid here's $200k in loans

School that previously cost $100k: Hey kid, we've raised our prices. Now it's $200k

 

[KRAM1]

Don’t like loan debt? Don’t take out loans. And it is silly to think one cannot get a college degree without big student loan debt. Parents and kids just don’t want to make decisions early, go to the community colleges first for two years, live at home and work while going to that Community College. etc., etc. There are ways...such as using loans ONLY for tuition and books and fees...not cell phone bills, Taco Bell, tattoos, dating, rent, etc. Those things prior planning and part-time work goes a long way in handling. There are tough decisions to be made...decisions that should be made EARLY...most today don’t. They would rather claim the only way they can go to college is by racking up thousands and thousands in loan debt. Absolutely wrong!

And, let’s not forget doing the job in HS so you might qualify for some scholarship money.

And, let’s not forget the GI bill. Enlisting in a branch of the military and get a bunch of your college costs covered after you complete your enlistment. 

And, find a company to work for they helps you pay your loans back. Just read about such perks in the paper this week. Companies are having challenges hiring in today’s hot labor and economic market and they are offering such perks...and some...hiring GS and CC grads are helping pay costs to complete a 2-yr or 4-yr degree.

I could go on.

Not, saying it is easy...not saying some of the above is not in the cards for some folks, just saying that “going the loan route” has consequences. Consequences one accepts when they borrow the money. 

Tough love, I guess. Lots of folks seem to need it these days.

OK, I’ll look forward to all the “it’s not fair” and “old man you don’t know what you are talking about” replies in 10...9...8...7.....

Edited May 16, 2019 by KRAM1

[GBarksdale]

Also -- take advantage of 529 plans.  In Virginia we have a bunch of account options -- and some of them have really good rates of return.  It's not like you have to have a ton of disposable income to contribute.  Just a little here and there adds up over the years, especially the accounts that track the market. 

The rules vary by state, but generally they're a good way to cushion the blow of college costs.

[Salsa_Verde]

Post 9-11 GI Bill is awesome 😎 

[KRAM1]

10 hours ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Post 9-11 GI Bill is awesome 😎 

It certainly is...they really changed it for the better. 👍

[TheTastyGreek]

On 5/14/2019 at 12:05 PM, GBarksdale said:

I was there in the 80s and had a couple of friends who took out loans.  For most, their parents paid the bill or, like me, they worked part time jobs.  I took around 12 hrs a semester and worked around 30 hours a week.  Took me 5 years, but I was able to pay my own way.  But tuition was reasonable then and it was fairly easy to work your way through if you could. 

But today's costs are insane.  It's virtually impossible for kids to work part time and pay their own now.

Building on this... DCCCD public estimate for the annual cost to a student that lives in the district and chooses to live at home with their parents is $10,565. That goes up by about 15% if you live out of district with your parents. 

Best case (in-district), that comes out to about 1,460 hours of work at minimum wage, assuming every cent of your earnings goes to education costs (and not social security or other taxes of any kind). That's just over 28 hours per week. 

So, the same level of work, self-discipline, and financial restraint could carry you far enough to earn a 4 year university degree from UNT back in the 80s, but caps out at a community college 2 year degree today. 

Even without stopping to consider your professional job prospects without a 4 year degree these days, that's already a pretty significant change in circumstances. 

 

[CaribbeanGreen]

Tattoos?

[Quoner]

TFW you can't get YAC membership bc they hate you even though you're YACing harder and stronger than anyone reasonably could.

[meangreenlax]

On 5/16/2019 at 1:20 PM, KRAM1 said:

Don’t like loan debt? Don’t take out loans. And it is silly to think one cannot get a college degree without big student loan debt. Parents and kids just don’t want to make decisions early, go to the community colleges first for two years, live at home and work while going to that Community College. etc., etc. There are ways...such as using loans ONLY for tuition and books and fees...not cell phone bills, Taco Bell, tattoos, dating, rent, etc. Those things prior planning and part-time work goes a long way in handling. There are tough decisions to be made...decisions that should be made EARLY...most today don’t. They would rather claim the only way they can go to college is by racking up thousands and thousands in loan debt. Absolutely wrong!

And, let’s not forget doing the job in HS so you might qualify for some scholarship money.

And, let’s not forget the GI bill. Enlisting in a branch of the military and get a bunch of your college costs covered after you complete your enlistment. 

And, find a company to work for they helps you pay your loans back. Just read about such perks in the paper this week. Companies are having challenges hiring in today’s hot labor and economic market and they are offering such perks...and some...hiring GS and CC grads are helping pay costs to complete a 2-yr or 4-yr degree.

I could go on.

Not, saying it is easy...not saying some of the above is not in the cards for some folks, just saying that “going the loan route” has consequences. Consequences one accepts when they borrow the money. 

Tough love, I guess. Lots of folks seem to need it these days.

OK, I’ll look forward to all the “it’s not fair” and “old man you don’t know what you are talking about” replies in 10...9...8...7.....

Damn, I shouldn’t have bought $40k worth of tattoos and Taco Bell beefy 5 layer burritos... But really, you seem to talk a lot of shit about the very students that are paying the fees that subsidize the sports programs you like to watch. I don’t see you complaining about that.

Typical boomer bullshit talking points. There’s so much to unpack here but the bottom line is that the costs of college have outpaced housing, consumer goods, healthcare, and wage growth. States have cut funding, shifting the costs to students. Schools are increasing overhead by investing in administration and luxury capital projects (see Apogee Stadium, et al). The entire system is broken, and no amount of cutting back on Taco Bell and Netflix is going to fix it. 

 

[breaker110]

USA runs on debt. #slavetotheinterest

[Censored by Laurie]

13 hours ago, meangreenlax said:

Damn, I shouldn’t have bought $40k worth of tattoos and Taco Bell beefy 5 layer burritos... But really, you seem to talk a lot of shit about the very students that are paying the fees that subsidize the sports programs you like to watch. I don’t see you complaining about that.

Typical boomer bullshit talking points. There’s so much to unpack here but the bottom line is that the costs of college have outpaced housing, consumer goods, healthcare, and wage growth. States have cut funding, shifting the costs to students. Schools are increasing overhead by investing in administration and luxury capital projects (see Apogee Stadium, et al). The entire system is broken, and no amount of cutting back on Taco Bell and Netflix is going to fix it. 

 

kids these days and their lack of bootstraps...

[KRAM1]

On 5/20/2019 at 1:02 AM, meangreenlax said:

Damn, I shouldn’t have bought $40k worth of tattoos and Taco Bell beefy 5 layer burritos... But really, you seem to talk a lot of shit about the very students that are paying the fees that subsidize the sports programs you like to watch. I don’t see you complaining about that.

Typical boomer bullshit talking points. There’s so much to unpack here but the bottom line is that the costs of college have outpaced housing, consumer goods, healthcare, and wage growth. States have cut funding, shifting the costs to students. Schools are increasing overhead by investing in administration and luxury capital projects (see Apogee Stadium, et al). The entire system is broken, and no amount of cutting back on Taco Bell and Netflix is going to fix it. 

 

Typical whine. Always someone else’s fault...always not fair. Responsibility is always for someone else. Got it!

By the way..just met a 19 year old from Australia that is on a two-month holiday from his job...yep two months...who has been working since age 14 and has saved enough from his paychecks to pay cash (about $10,000 Australian) for this two-month vacation and has two years of college paid for with additional savings. Kid is going to pay 100% of his own college expenses..debt free. So, tell me again why student loan debt is a must and why things are so different today! BS on this boomer garbage. Responsibility and proper planning know no age and is not “out of style” as you seem to think. Fun facts for kids.  

[TheTastyGreek]

1 hour ago, KRAM1 said:

Typical whine. Always someone else’s fault...always not fair. Responsibility is always for someone else. Got it!

By the way..just met a 19 year old from Australia that is on a two-month holiday from his job...yep two months...who has been working since age 14 and has saved enough from his paychecks to pay cash (about $10,000 Australian) for this two-month vacation and has two years of college paid for with additional savings. Kid is going to pay 100% of his own college expenses..debt free. So, tell me again why student loan debt is a must and why things are so different today! BS on this boomer garbage. Responsibility and proper planning know no age and is not “out of style” as you seem to think. Fun facts for kids.  

When you factor in the exchange rate... A year at the University of Melbourne studying pre-med to be a doctor is cheaper than a year at a DCCCD school pursuing an associate's degree in anything if you're living at home for both. 

I picked Melbourne because the 5 seconds I spent googling this said it was the best public school in the country. I have no idea if it's abnormally cheap or expensive. 

It doesn't much matter to me... I got out of school right before tuition deregulation, and I got out debt-free. But I don't understand why it's impossible to acknowledge that the people who started this year have a much rougher and untenable financial forecast than even the people who started school 10 years ago, and that even those students 10 years ago had it a lot harder financially than myself or anyone else that went to UNT pre-2003. 

It's not a moral failing, it's math.

[Censored by Laurie]

23 minutes ago, KRAM1 said:

Typical whine. Always someone else’s fault...always not fair. Responsibility is always for someone else. Got it!

By the way..just met a 19 year old from Australia that is on a two-month holiday from his job...yep two months...who has been working since age 14 and has saved enough from his paychecks to pay cash (about $10,000 Australian) for this two-month vacation and has two years of college paid for with additional savings. Kid is going to pay 100% of his own college expenses..debt free. So, tell me again why student loan debt is a must and why things are so different today! BS on this boomer garbage. Responsibility and proper planning know no age and is not “out of style” as you seem to think. Fun facts for kids.  

hmm...sounds like this guy has found a pretty good job that allowed him 2 months to travel...I wonder how much, if not all of that leave is paid. your average Australian employee is guaranteed between 4-5 weeks of paid leave. that's a minimum. throw in in the 13 paid holidays on most state's calendars and if he timed things right, he really might be be out of pocket for half his trip. American companies should be so forward thinking as to provide the foundation for responsibility and proper planning. 

And $10,000 in savings from five years work in an entry level field? makes me think this job pays a pretty good wage...probably above a rate that plays out to a yearly salary of 37% of a standard living wage, huh? I mean, either that or kid had zero other expenses or responsibilities...grew up at least in a comfortable house-hold if not an affluent one.

I'm leaning toward the latter, considering $10,000 over 60 days comes to about $166/day...which for a 19 year old hoping to "see the world" is really pretty lavish. 

Did you happen to ask him where he was planning to attend university? because if it's back home in Australia, his studies are largely subsidized by the federal government and out-of-pocket expenses are actually capped based on what you study https://www.studyassist.gov.au/help-loans-commonwealth-supported-places-csps/student-contribution-amounts

 

so...ya...I bet those bootstraps were pretty worn down on that bloke. even if those boots did happen to be a pair of $250 Ugg's

[KRAM1]

7 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

hmm...sounds like this guy has found a pretty good job that allowed him 2 months to travel...I wonder how much, if not all of that leave is paid. your average Australian employee is guaranteed between 4-5 weeks of paid leave. that's a minimum. throw in in the 13 paid holidays on most state's calendars and if he timed things right, he really might be be out of pocket for half his trip. American companies should be so forward thinking as to provide the foundation for responsibility and proper planning. 

And $10,000 in savings from five years work in an entry level field? makes me think this job pays a pretty good wage...probably above a rate that plays out to a yearly salary of 37% of a standard living wage, huh? I mean, either that or kid had zero other expenses or responsibilities...grew up at least in a comfortable house-hold if not an affluent one.

I'm leaning toward the latter, considering $10,000 over 60 days comes to about $166/day...which for a 19 year old hoping to "see the world" is really pretty lavish. 

Did you happen to ask him where he was planning to attend university? because if it's back home in Australia, his studies are largely subsidized by the federal government and out-of-pocket expenses are actually capped based on what you study https://www.studyassist.gov.au/help-loans-commonwealth-supported-places-csps/student-contribution-amounts

 

so...ya...I bet those bootstraps were pretty worn down on that bloke. even if those boots did happen to be a pair of $250 Ugg's

Sorry to burst your Australian college costs bubble, but according to both the Australians on the little tour with us to the Highlands, your thinking is out of date. Most college tuition is not government subsidized and longer. If you pay “up front” you can get a small discount but other-wise you pay. And, you pay per subject on average about $3000 per subject...take English...$3000 please..add history $3000 please, etc. That is the average...they can cost more and/or less. So...add that up per year times four and it’s a bit of Australian change! The young lady, Amy, who has her MBA said...”my Dad paid for my bachelor’s degree so I was lucky” but my MBA cost me about $6000 per class”. And, yes, I had  help as my company paid most of that. Hmmm...where has that been mentioned? 🤔🤔 And, Yep, there is a student loan program and some “skip out on paying” by going overseas to work, but if they come home...trouble. Some complain about having to repay, but she said not so many as they know they have to repay loans. My young friend Isaac, the 19 year old, confirmed the same and said the cost is why he is delaying college a few years as he wants no loans to repay if possible. Like I said, kid is a working machine...manager at 19 at a major grocery, living at home (but paying mom and dad rent) doing double and triple shifts to save all this cash and now on his first holiday since starting to work at fourteen. Said the airline tried to keep him from boarding as they did not believe he had paid cash for his two-month trip as he was so young. Had to whip out his phone and show them his bank account where he withdrew the funds. 😂😂

Glad he didn’t run in to you guys as well...poor kid would have never gotten on the plane. But, thanks for the opportunity to go to the actual people involved to ask about how college costs work in Australia. Not all that different now than in the US. And thanks to Amy and Issac for “educating” this Boomer with the actual costs and systems. Hope this helps..thought the people involved and who actually experienced it might be a tad more accurate than google. But, hey, what the heck do Amy and Issac know? 🤷‍♂️

Edited May 22, 2019 by KRAM1

[Censored by Laurie]

4 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Sorry to burst your Australian college costs bubble, but according to both the Australians on the little tour with us to the Highlands, your thinking is out of date. Most college tuition is not government subsidized and longer. If you pay “up front” you can get a small discount but other-wise you pay. And, you pay per subject on average about $3000 per subject...take English...$3000 please..add history $3000 please, etc. That is the average...they can cost more and/or less. So...add that up per year times four and it’s a bit of Australian change! The young lady, Amy, who has her MBA said...”my Dad paid for my bachelor’s degree so I was lucky” but my MBA cost me about $6000 per class”. And, yes, I had  help as my company paid most of that. Hmmm...where has that been mentioned? 🤔🤔 And, Yep, there is a student loan program and some “skip out on paying” by going overseas to work, but if they come home...trouble. Some complain about having to repay, but she said not so many as they know they have to repay loans. My young friend Isaac, the 19 year old, confirmed the same and said the cost is why he is delaying college a few years as he wants no loans to repay if possible. Like I said, kid is a working machine...manager at 19 at a major grocery, living at home (but paying mom and dad rent) doing double and triple shifts to save all this cash and now on his first holiday since starting to work at fourteen. Said the airline tried to keep him from boarding as they did not believe he had paid cash for his two-month trip as he was so young. Had to whip out his phone and show them his bank account where he withdrew the funds. 😂😂

Glad he didn’t run in to you guys as well...poor kid would have never gotten on the plane. But, thanks for the opportunity to go to the actual people involved to ask about how college costs work in Australia. Not all that different now than in the US. And thanks to Amy and Issac for “educating” this Boomer with the actual costs and systems. Hope this helps..thought the people involved and who actually experienced it might be a tad more accurate than google. But, hey, what the heck do Amy and Issac know? 🤷‍♂️

https://ask.unimelb.edu.au/app/answers/detail/a_id/288/kw/Commonwealth Supported Place (CSP)/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xNTU4NTI3OTA1L3NpZC9mVW9HYm56JTdFV1VJalJTbmtRQ2JCcFJYbkdIa3R5QkZPYkl3Y3pneVBvdkI1MUYlN0VDXzl3MXVvRHpVdjFXaDBIVUI5Vlo2eE94YXlMRHFFQm9SY3FRTTFIQ2xJNVdRdTRLSWxwMTZZWGZaZVpsTUpPVXZtWG8wUEtnJTIxJTIx

https://study.unimelb.edu.au/how-to-apply/fees/student-contribution-amounts

these are 2019 numbers. your friends are ill-informed. it happens. I still meet plenty of Americans who think their country was founded by Christopher Columbus in 1842. 

as to the bolded part...you and I have boarded many planes for many trips of various lengths. does any part of that story read as something you've heard of, known of or experienced before? 

[Censored by Laurie]

and understanding that details and numbers of Australian college costs are more semantics in this discussion and aren't really the point here, I'll add...

really, all this "all you need is hard-work" conversation does is show your privilege. you grew up in a time where wages afforded both a baseline for a standard of living and the ability to save/pay for school. 

1970 minimum wage: $1.45 ... adjusted to inflation, 2019: $9.55
1970 average public tuition/fees/r&b: $2574...adjusted to inflation, 2019: $16,953

2019 minimum wage: $7.25 ( -24%, relative to inflation)
2019 full cost UNT: $25,500 ( +34%, relative to inflation)
 

what does that actually mean? well, for every 10 hours some motivated Boomer worked in 1970, a lazy millennial would have to work 13+ hours just to match wage.
So lets say your same Boomer ratcheted up his boot-straps, grabbed his lunch pail and went to work 40 hours a week for one month at inflated minimum wage rate... in 160 hours of work they'd earn ~$1530 in a month, or say 9% of their cost of school.

now, your unmotivated and easily triggered millennial would have to drag his butt out of the tattoo chair and off to work for 52+ hours a week just to keep up with what the Boomer was earning in his 40...so it now takes around 209 hours in a month and that same ~$1530 would only represent 6% of today's school cost. that millennial would need to work another 11 hours a month..220 now in a month...55 hours a week...just to hit that 9% floor. 

so for those who want to take the "I worked my butt off to put myself through school stance"...congrats. you also had it about 30% easier. 

and all of this is assuming our Boomer and Millennial lived in bubbles...its a baseline ignoring all other factors of increased cost of living in 2019

[meangreenacct]

3 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

and understanding that details and numbers of Australian college costs are more semantics in this discussion and aren't really the point here, I'll add...

really, all this "all you need is hard-work" conversation does is show your privilege. you grew up in a time where wages afforded both a baseline for a standard of living and the ability to save/pay for school. 

1970 minimum wage: $1.45 ... adjusted to inflation, 2019: $9.55
1970 average public tuition/fees/r&b: $2574...adjusted to inflation, 2019: $16,953

2019 minimum wage: $7.25 ( -24%, relative to inflation)
2019 full cost UNT: $25,500 ( +34%, relative to inflation)
 

what does that actually mean? well, for every 10 hours some motivated Boomer worked in 1970, a lazy millennial would have to work 13+ hours just to match wage.
So lets say your same Boomer ratcheted up his boot-straps, grabbed his lunch pail and went to work 40 hours a week for one month at inflated minimum wage rate... in 160 hours of work they'd earn ~$1530 in a month, or say 9% of their cost of school.

now, your unmotivated and easily triggered millennial would have to drag his butt out of the tattoo chair and off to work for 52+ hours a week just to keep up with what the Boomer was earning in his 40...so it now takes around 209 hours in a month and that same ~$1530 would only represent 6% of today's school cost. that millennial would need to work another 11 hours a month..220 now in a month...55 hours a week...just to hit that 9% floor. 

so for those who want to take the "I worked my butt off to put myself through school stance"...congrats. you also had it about 30% easier. 

and all of this is assuming our Boomer and Millennial lived in bubbles...its a baseline ignoring all other factors of increased cost of living in 2019

mic drop...

[greenminer]

@KRAM1, all you have to do is acknowledge the college has gotten much more expensive beyond inflation and wage increase.

If you want to teach us about financial responsibility and the issues with debt in our country, you can start another thread.  I'm very interested in that topic.  But that's not what this thread is about.