DRC: Pre-spring questions series -- No. 2: Can UNT find two new starters at offensive tackle?

[Brett Vito]

DRC:

https://www.dentonrc.com/sports/unt-key-spring-issues-no----who-takes/article_67e061aa-236d-5d75-9894-2b785f442386.html

[ChiefTenBeers2015]

  This brings up a topic - in the Utah St bowl loss or in any of our losses, was Fine either hurried / hit or sacked more so than in games we won?  As I re-watched  the Arkansas win, Fine was often hurried and hit and sacked, as well as his throws being tipped or blocked...I guess what I’m trying to say is was the tackle play as good as this article says?  My thought throughout the season was keep Fine healthy, the whole offense revolves around him staying injury-free, so every time he got hit or sacked, I was a glass-half-empty kind of guy.  So is 28 sacks per season a good stat, meaning if we keep that number around there, will we be good?  Obviously less is better...I always thought we had way too many.  This is a key question for sure.  Just answering my own post I guess...

[Harry]

1 hour ago, ChiefTenBeers2015 said:

.I guess what I’m trying to say is was the tackle play as good as this article says?

No it really wasn’t.  They were very fortunate to get an extra year of eligibility for Mayfield.  Imagine if they hadn’t?  It’s a tough position (o-tackle) for any p5 for sure and it has always been a struggle for UNT dating back to Simon and Dickey.  It seems to me that the plan has been to try and develop HS players with a few jucos and transfers sprinkled in.  I just don’t believe that strategy is working.  I think at certain positions you have to go heavy juco and transfer to ensure that you have a better shot to address the critical importance of a serviceable o-line.

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

It seems to me that the plan has been to try and develop HS players with a few jucos and transfers sprinkled in.  I just don’t believe that strategy is working.  

I"m super reluctant to leave that strategy, but I get what you're saying.  It's a problem with no easy solution.

Maybe the path becomes a little clearer with a few 10-win, championship seasons under our belt.

[GMG24]

2 hours ago, ChiefTenBeers2015 said:

  This brings up a topic - in the Utah St bowl loss or in any of our losses, was Fine either hurried / hit or sacked more so than in games we won?  As I re-watched  the Arkansas win, Fine was often hurried and hit and sacked, as well as his throws being tipped or blocked...I guess what I’m trying to say is was the tackle play as good as this article says?  My thought throughout the season was keep Fine healthy, the whole offense revolves around him staying injury-free, so every time he got hit or sacked, I was a glass-half-empty kind of guy.  So is 28 sacks per season a good stat, meaning if we keep that number around there, will we be good?  Obviously less is better...I always thought we had way too many.  This is a key question for sure.  Just answering my own post I guess...

The stat that you should look at in general is pressures and hurries. Those mean Fine was able to avoid a sack and continue with the play, add those numbers up and our OL play was not to the standard that is acceptable in this offense.  Some of it was our tempo, run a big play sprint down the field got the DL tired, because they're big too but then we check with sideline and sub two guys in well now they get to sub in, so they run 4 new DL out who are fresh and our big guys are now tired.  

 

I think with Bodie Reeder new OC you won't see that as much as you will get to the line and run another play while they're also tired. 

[UNTLifer]

Tackle is a very important position on the line. We all know that, but placing the blame for the pressure on Fine squarely on the shoulders of the OT’s is short-sighted.  We had issues all along the line that have to be addressed as well as finding replacements for Murray and Mayfield.  Time for Langston to earn his keep and develop these young men. 

[MeanGreen2019]

My hope is that the Mose brothers get a year better and stronger, along with Woolworth on the interior. If they can get even a little better that would help dramatically. Also hopefully Plantin is solid and Brammer adds some size. He was solid in the run gain, but when he went back to pass protect he was just getting bullied left and right. I honestly think we have the potential for a better situation up front than we did last year, but that may be me just being overly optimistic.

[Harry]

6 hours ago, GMG24 said:

Some of it was our tempo, run a big play sprint down the field got the DL tired, because they're big too but then we check with sideline and sub two guys in well now they get to sub in, so they run 4 new DL out who are fresh and our big guys are now tired.  

This is absolutely correct.  Part of it is personnel but part of it is strategy and execution.  With Fines quick release we really should not have that many sack issues.  I also think Jeffery Wilson his a lot of the lines issues.

[peanuts104]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

This is absolutely correct.  Part of it is personnel but part of it is strategy and execution.  With Fines quick release we really should not have that many sack issues.  I also think Jeffery Wilson his a lot of the lines issues.

My only comment to this is that yes, Fine generally has a quick release, and he can extend plays outside of the pocket when protection breaks down (if his hammy is good to go). BUT, one trend I noticed last year, he will wait to throw an extra second or two to hit a target farther down the field when a closer receiver was wide open.  I'm all for taking the big shots and stretching the defense, but it's also a numbers game. If you have a guy wide open that's closer to you, get the ball out to him.  Don't hold it longer waiting for the home run, because while he has delivered on many a home run, hitting the open guy underneath quicker and more consistently could yield better results. If we did that, I bet drives would stall less and it would also create separation in the backfield for the long balls.

[97and03]

Excellent point. 

[GrandGreen]

Many lamented NT's offensive tackle play last year and now we are worried about replacing them.   

Also. I would remind those worried about Bramer's size, those numbers have not been changed since he joined the team, so who knows. 

The offense returns almost every starter, but the OT's; so it obviously a concern.   However, NT returns 3 very good offensive line starters. 

Overall, the ol should be at least as good as last year and there is a good chance of improvement.   

[Green Crazy]

16 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Many lamented NT's offensive tackle play last year and now we are worried about replacing them.   

Also. I would remind those worried about Bramer's size, those numbers have not been changed since he joined the team, so who knows. 

The offense returns almost every starter, but the OT's; so it obviously a concern.   However, NT returns 3 very good offensive line starters. 

Overall, the ol should be at least as good as last year and there is a good chance of improvement.   

"As good as last year" means it will be just ok.  I'm hoping for better.  Run blocking was average and so was the pass protection from last year.  I think the year of experience for everyone with the addition of Plantin makes us better.  An ideal year for me would keep the sack total under 20.

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Many lamented NT's offensive tackle play last year and now we are worried about replacing them.   

  

 

Exactly.  Which is why I usually consider the source and instead prefer to read opinion from folks who know what the eff they’re talking about like gmg24 and others because they’ve either played or coached the game...or both.

 

Rick

Edited March 17, 2019 by FirefightnRick

[Wag Tag]

22 hours ago, Green Crazy said:

"As good as last year" means it will be just ok.  I'm hoping for better.  Run blocking was average and so was the pass protection from last year.  I think the year of experience for everyone with the addition of Plantin makes us better.  An ideal year for me would keep the sack total under 20.

5.5 yards per rush is not average. Can we run a quick out or slant to the slot? Can we run a seam route to the tightend? Coach to the talent you got! Excited about the new OC ! GMG 

[Green Crazy]

2 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

5.5 yards per rush is not average. Can we run a quick out or slant to the slot? Can we run a seam route to the tightend? Coach to the talent you got! Excited about the new OC ! GMG 

I'm guessing you're just using runs by rb to get that avg?  4.5 is the average per rush for the year.  The last four games of conference (best stretch of the year by far), Torrey put up some good numbers, but the 8 prior to that had 4 games under 4 yards a carry from the leading rusher.  I'm just saying there were games when we needed a run game to milk the clock or salt a game away and they didn't produce.   Also, I believe the passing game helped the running game look as good as they did.

[GMG24]

On 3/16/2019 at 11:38 PM, FirefightnRick said:

 

Exactly.  Which is why I usually consider the source and instead prefer to read opinion from folks who know what the eff they’re talking about like gmg24 and others because they’ve either played or coached the game...or both.

 

Rick

While I appreciate the compliment I have plenty to learn. 

 

Many times the sack or pressure that happen is any combination of the following: QB Squeezing the ball too long and not throwing guys open (Mason early on), The OL missing twist or stunts,  The RB not picking up a blitz before running his route, The QB and WR not on the same page for hot route reads and timing is off causing the assumed pressure the time needed to get to the QB, The WR runs the wrong route in general (doesn't happen as often in the Air Raid because it is simplified).