SL vs Canales: QB philosophy

[97and03]

Reading the below made me think:

I wonder if our offense was in part held back during the McCarney/Canales years due to this type of thinking described above. It seems the strength of SL’s air raid is based in its simplicity; whereas Canales was known to have some complex tests he gave his QBs. I think this “book smart over street smart” attitude might explain how we got some duds at starting QB. Our most talented QBs might have sat on the bench because they failed to master these types of complex play-calls. 

 

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Reading the below made me think:

I wonder if our offense was in part held back during the McCarney/Canales years due to this type of thinking described above. It seems the strength of SL’s air raid is based in its simplicity; whereas Canales was known to have some complex tests he gave his QBs. I think this “book smart over street smart” attitude might explain how we got some duds at starting QB. Our most talented QBs might have sat on the bench because they failed to master these types of complex play-calls. 

 

 

None of the other QB’s on the bench that I can think of ever went somewhere else and flourished.  So I’d say no,... the system under Canales wasn’t over complicated.  

During Canales’ time here he helped produce 20 All Conference selections, an NFL running back and (two?) NFL O linemen and won a bowl game with a record setting QB.  So he did a little of something right.

 

Rick

 

 

[Green Lantern]

1 hour ago, ihopehe said:

I hope he realizes that neither Leach nor Kingsbury own even as little as a conference title between them.  Many years ago, the San Diego Chargers of Don Coryell set the National Marketing Football League ablaze with a scorching pass offense, but he never won an even AFC championship.  The same can be said of Jack Pardee who did the same with the Houston Oilers about a decade after Coryell.

Steve Spurrier.  Chip "Jackrabbit" Kelly.  Todd Dodge.

I hope he realizes that what wins football championships is defense.  If not, fate will poo-poo on him, leaving him with nothing but the comfort of his soulmate of the opposite sex.  But, there is something to be said for that as well; so, all would not be totally lost.

 

[MrStrange18]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:38 PM, FirefightnRick said:

 

None of the other QB’s on the bench that I can think of ever went somewhere else and flourished.  So I’d say no,... the system under Canales wasn’t over complicated.  

During Canales’ time here he helped produce 20 All Conference selections, an NFL running back and (two?) NFL O linemen and won a bowl game with a record setting QB.  So he did a little of something right.

 

Rick

 

 

Yes... he deserves all the credit for those players. 

[97and03]

1 hour ago, MrStrange18 said:

Yes... he deserves all the credit for those players. 

And deserves credit for not having recruited a single D1 level QB during the McCarney years. And for 15 points per game in 2015. 

[untjim1995]

15 hours ago, 97and03 said:

And deserves credit for not having recruited a single D1 level QB during the McCarney years. And for 15 points per game in 2015. 

Exactly—that last couple of years here were just disastrous for Chico’s ledger with the QBs we rolled with. His tests allowed McNulty to start because he graded out well, but his offensive schemes were so basic and none of his QBs could ever make plays. McNulty was a FCS QB that got here because of his dad and McCarney, nothing more, nothing less. Greer was a Division 2 talent that fooled them because of his height. He might have been the worst QB we have ever use to  start a game. 

There was a reason that SL immediately looked at the QBs and said, nope, none of these can play. Who can I get to come here instead? Welcome Morris from Bama’s Bench and then a call to Locust Grove, OK for Mason Fine. Ironically enough, Mason Fine would have never even been invited to play here as a walk-on solely because of his height under Chico/Mac. That alone should tell you the difference between their styles of coaching and development.

[ntmeangreen11]

On 3/5/2019 at 5:02 PM, ihopehe said:

I hope he realizes that neither Leach nor Kingsbury own even as little as a conference title between them.  Many years ago, the San Diego Chargers of Don Coryell set the National Marketing Football League ablaze with a scorching pass offense, but he never won an even AFC championship.  The same can be said of Jack Pardee who did the same with the Houston Oilers about a decade after Coryell.

Steve Spurrier.  Chip "Jackrabbit" Kelly.  Todd Dodge.

I hope he realizes that what wins football championships is defense.  If not, fate will poo-poo on him, leaving him with nothing but the comfort of his soulmate of the opposite sex.  But, there is something to be said for that as well; so, all would not be totally lost.

 

I will take a dominant offense over a dominant defense every day of the week in 2019. I don't buy in to that like I used to when football was so run heavy. At any level, high school, college or pro.

[untjim1995]

54 minutes ago, ihopehe said:

I hope he will rewatch this beauty of a 2019 championship affair:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401038115

For all of their record-setting Goffing 2019, the Rams were reduced to G.O.A.T. puke without their run game.  And, their defense was pee-peed on by the Patriots late in the game when a stop was desperately needed.

When it comes to these things, "Give me defense, or give me death!" just like Patrick Henry in the days of yore. 

The problem with this is that TX HS football doesn’t produce defensive players anymore since we play glorified 7-on-7.

Thats why DLinemen are such a premium and usually go to big schools. Otherwise, it’s developing your linemen into becoming bigger guys and scheming differently. 

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

 

I will take a dominant offense over a dominant defense every day of the week in 2019. I don't buy in to that like I used to when football was so run heavy. At any level, high school, college or pro.

If you saw the 2007 North Texas/Navy game, you might change your mind.  Seeing that mess after watching the Booger, Spencer, Buckles, Jones, etc... led defenses during our SBC run was disheartening.

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

If you saw the 2007 North Texas/Navy game, you might change your mind.  Seeing that mess after watching the Booger, Spencer, Buckles, Jones, etc... led defenses during our SBC run was disheartening.

One could also point out defensive slugfests that turned into losses.

I'm with you though: there's still value in a running game.

I've never felt more defeated and deflated as a fan than during the 2nd half of that Navy game.  The Rice thumping, , the Portland State game, etc...none of those did the same thing to me.

With the way the passing game (and offenses in general) have evolved over the last 10-20 years, I am curious if the physicality of play in the trenches is still more wear-and-tear during running plays compared to passing plays, or has it shifted the other way? Would love to hear from recent players and coaches about their experiences/thoughts.

[FirefightnRick]

On 3/6/2019 at 9:48 AM, 97and03 said:

And deserves credit for not having recruited a single D1 level QB during the McCarney years. And for 15 points per game in 2015. 

I have no idea why the sudden need to trash Mike Canales.  It’s gonna be a loooong offseason I suppose.  

Canales enjoyed coaching here and wanted to stay..something we don’t often see at North Texas.  He never trashed us, our school or our facilities that I can ever recall.  The man was a class act and always willing to stop and visit with anyone no matter how busy he seemed to be.  He wanted to stay here and be our head coach and did all he could to stay here by earning the right taking over for Dodge and nearly beating K State,.... to interview to be McCarney’s OC, and did so..  

Trash him all you want but he still remains as the last OC to win a bowl championship for North Texas..

 

Rick

Edited March 8, 2019 by FirefightnRick

[ntmeangreen11]

On 3/7/2019 at 11:09 AM, UNTLifer said:

If you saw the 2007 North Texas/Navy game, you might change your mind.  Seeing that mess after watching the Booger, Spencer, Buckles, Jones, etc... led defenses during our SBC run was disheartening.

 

I saw it. From the bleachers. Cool of you to assume I hadn't.

I saw Rice destroy us as well. Those are extremes, those are also games that took place over a decade ago.

The game of football is changing, I would still rather have an elite offense than defense, just my opinion.

[ntmeangreen11]

On 3/7/2019 at 9:41 AM, ihopehe said:

I hope he will rewatch this beauty of a 2019 championship affair:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401038115

For all of their record-setting Goffing 2019, the Rams were reduced to G.O.A.T. puke without their run game.  And, their defense was pee-peed on by the Patriots late in the game when a stop was desperately needed.

When it comes to these things, "Give me defense, or give me death!" just like Patrick Henry in the days of yore. 

 

You just cherry picked an anomaly of a super bowl. It's the lowest scoring super bowl of all time. Never mind the ten previous where the winning team scored an average of 33.8 points per game. That one game is not indicative of the direction football has been heading in over the last decade.

 

 

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

That one game is not indicative of the direction football has been heading in over the last decade.

 

 

That one game is indicative of what wins championships.

 

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

4 hours ago, ihopehe said:

I hope he is enjoying his time in El Paso.  He's quick with a joke, or a light of your smoke, but there's someplace that he'd rather be.

He says, "Bill, I believe this is killing me," as the smile ran away from his face.  "Well, I'm sure that I could be a head football coach, if I could get out of this place!"

Agree, but I reminded him that “all your life you've been waiting for your chance where you'll fit into the plan, but you're the master of your own destiny”.  And that just because “you think a little more money will buy your soul some rest you'd better think of something else instead” and consider a smaller program for that first HC job.

 

Rick

[greenminer]

I, for one, read that in my fantastic Billy Joel head voice.

Tip o' the hat to you, good sir.

[ntmeangreen11]

On 3/8/2019 at 3:10 PM, FirefightnRick said:

That one game is indicative of what wins championships.

 

Rick

 

LOL alright.

The four teams in the AFC and NFC championship games (KC,NE,LAR,NO) were 1-4 in scoring.  Does that mean anything?

 

[FirefightnRick]

5 hours ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

 

LOL alright.

The four teams in the AFC and NFC championship games (KC,NE,LAR,NO) were 1-4 in scoring.  Does that mean anything?

 

No....history speaks for itself..

And no surprise to me that the highest ranked defense of the four......won it all.

 

Rick

Edited March 10, 2019 by FirefightnRick

[UNTLifer]

On 3/8/2019 at 12:46 PM, ntmeangreen11 said:

 

I saw it. From the bleachers. Cool of you to assume I hadn't.

Cool of you to assume meaning. My statement was meant in a generic, blanket coverage kid of way. Sorry you took it personally. 

[DT 90]

The last bowl championship seniors were all Dodge boys and Chico coached..