Khairi Muhammad's in the Doghouse

97and03 · January 30, 2019

Maybe it won’t even be up to SL. The university has a Dean of Students who could also take action independently of the AD.

peanuts104 · January 30, 2019

13 minutes ago, Venson said:

Big lesson learned for the younger generation, stop posting everything you do or say to social media.

This. I hate my generation, mainly for this.

Venson · January 30, 2019

8 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Maybe it won’t even be up to SL. The university has a Dean of Students who could also take action independently of the AD.

I didn't even think about that, but you are correct.

MeanGreenVet · January 30, 2019

49 minutes ago, Venson said:

I am not going to say what should or should not happen to him because that is not my decision. I will say what I think will happen. I could be wrong. I honestly believe that with all the negative press that the University is receiving, I think he will eventually be dismissed from the team. I say that because UNT is trying to build something here. I think with Baker and SL on the rise like they are, that they will not let one player stop them. I believe UNT will look at what happened at Baylor and say "we don't want that." I am not equating rape with this at all. My point is that something bad happened there and the response of the University, football program, and AD was not enough for most and it caused a lot of problems there that they will deal with for a long time. I believe NS, WB, and SL will say that a G5 school trying to raise it's stock just cannot afford for this happen. Let's be honest, if they dismiss him from the team, there will be a quick report and that will calm down the people calling for his head. The people that think he should stay on the team will say it's wrong, but they will move on. They will not make a big scene about it. If he stays, the people who are upset about the video will not let it rest. They will keep going until UNT is seen in the same light as Baylor nationally. I just don't see NS, WB, and SL believing that Muhammad is so valuable to the team that they can keep him. Just my opinion.

Big lesson learned for the younger generation, stop posting everything you do or say to social media.

If you think he should or will be kicked off the team you guys are idiots. He is a kid from inner city Dallas and went home with a teammate for the weekend who is a country kid that hunts,fish, and ride horses. The teammate and his family were training their hunting dogs while khairi was there and him being a city kid who never saw nothing like that he thought it was amusing and recorded it and put it on his social media. FYI the family actually eat raccoons. People do that with hogs as well and never seen it considered as animal cruelty.Y’all need to grow a pair it’s Definitely not that serious.

greenminer · January 30, 2019

21 minutes ago, MeanGreenVet said:

it’s Definitely not that serious.

Ultimately, this is not up to us.

As for the FWST, they'll do what gets them clicks.

SilverEagle · January 30, 2019

5 hours ago, peanuts104 said:

That's quite the logical leap there.

Not really. Cruelty to animals is one of the red flags for a sociopath. Lack of empathy and insensitivity to other's pain is a couple of others.

GTWT · January 30, 2019

7 hours ago, peanuts104 said:

You missed my point or intentionally disregarded it. Organizing implies it was all his idea. It implies that he called all the people there to view it. We have no evidence of that and the Star Telegram can go pound sand for insinuating as such since there is no evidence to that. He posted a video of something bad that he shouldn't have posted. We don't know much beyond that.

We know he found the video amusing enough to post it under his name - a name associated with UNT athletics & the University of North Texas. It's disturbing that you find it possible to defend the young man. Of course, it's just a raccoon.

UNTFan23 · January 30, 2019

9 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Maybe it won’t even be up to SL. The university has a Dean of Students who could also take action independently of the AD.

She's a pretty big supporter of athletics but can separate her feelings from the matter just as well. She'd also do a thorough investigation before making any kind of decision rather than act on emotion or a mob demanding the worst possible punishment right this moment.

MeanGreenTexan · January 30, 2019

Pretty sure Khairi will be suspended for the ACU game (and possibly SMU), and that's it.

If it's determined to be a Student Affairs issue, then they will deal with it. Otherwise, I highly doubt Smatresk or Baker become involved. It will be up to Littrell.

MEANGREENCOACH2 · January 30, 2019

Growing up on a dairy farm lets just say this wasnt disturbing or alarming for me at all. Now should he have posted it ehhh probably not with how weak our country is right now. I would compare this to shooting Tannerite and blowing up pigs.

NorthTexasWeLove · January 30, 2019

They're not dismissing him. The university statement stated it being a "teaching moment." Like when Saban had a marquee OL get pulled over with 2 pistols with the serial numbers shaved off and 10 ounces of weed..."teaching moment." It's the typical sweep it under the rug verbiage.

I'm not advocating for a dismissal. Stupid people do stupid things. At 22 years old thinking this is acceptable is an IQ indicator. Is what it is. Maybe, hopefully, he does learn from it. But if the history of "student"-athletes tells us anything, doubtful.

peanuts104 · January 30, 2019

4 hours ago, GTWT said:

We know he found the video amusing enough to post it under his name - a name associated with UNT athletics & the University of North Texas. It's disturbing that you find it possible to defend the young man. Of course, it's just a raccoon.

And I agree, he shouldn't have posted the video. But I don't think videoing it makes him an evil person either, especially since, as you said, it's just a raccoon. Now you're getting it.

6 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

Not really. Cruelty to animals is one of the red flags for a sociopath. Lack of empathy and insensitivity to other's pain is a couple of others.

Yeah, but he didn't sit there and rip the raccoon apart himself. In all likelihood, he didn't even sick the dogs on it. He just filmed it.

SilverEagle · January 30, 2019

21 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

And I agree, he shouldn't have posted the video. But I don't think videoing it makes him an evil person either, especially since, as you said, it's just a raccoon. Now you're getting it.

Yeah, but he didn't sit there and rip the raccoon apart himself. In all likelihood, he didn't even sick the dogs on it. He just filmed it.

…..and by filming it, he willingly participated in animal cruelty. If he filmed it to take it to the authorities for evidence of animal cruelty, then that might be different. But he filmed it, and then subsequently shared it with the world, for entertainment purposes. Call me someone who overreacts or someone who is weak, but what happened with that raccoon was nothing short of animal cruelty.

And people can be as dismissive as they want about raccoons, but with the possible exception of Border Collies, they are smarter than dogs.

GrandGreen · January 30, 2019

3 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

She's a pretty big supporter of athletics but can separate her feelings from the matter just as well. She'd also do a thorough investigation before making any kind of decision rather than act on emotion or a mob demanding the worst possible punishment right this moment.

What authority does a dean of students have over a student not on campus and not charged with any offense?

UNTFan23 · January 30, 2019

2 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

What authority does a dean of students have over a student not on campus and not charged with any offense?

Doesn't matter whether the incident took place on campus or not. The Dean of Students has the Student Code of Conduct they can use to enforce a punishment if an investigation determines wrongdoing. Same can be said of whether or not a crime has taken place. Cheating on a test isn't a crime but it does go against the Code of Conduct.

peanuts104 · January 30, 2019

5 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

What authority does a dean of students have over a student not on campus and not charged with any offense?

The code of conduct students agree to is pretty far reaching and they usually have vague clauses pertaining to good behavior and representing the university well, etc. I'm sure they could make an argument.

GTWT · January 30, 2019

2 hours ago, peanuts104 said:

And I agree, he shouldn't have posted the video. But I don't think videoing it makes him an evil person either, especially since, as you said, it's just a raccoon. Now you're getting it.

No, I just get you.

Yeah, but he didn't sit there and rip the raccoon apart himself. In all likelihood, he didn't even sick the dogs on it. He just filmed it.

He was in attendance at an event featuring animal cruelty. He filmed it & posted the video. He posted it under his name which is associated with UNT athletics & the University of North Texas. This is wrong on so many levels.

trud1966 · January 30, 2019

23 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Doesn't matter whether the incident took place on campus or not. The Dean of Students has the Student Code of Conduct they can use to enforce a punishment if an investigation determines wrongdoing. Same can be said of whether or not a crime has taken place. Cheating on a test isn't a crime but it does go against the Code of Conduct.

What people have to remember is, again, it's not about the racoon, and iif its a worthy animal or living or dying (we're all going to have opinions and legislate it to death. So agree to disagree, and lets drop that part... And it's not JUST the University's Code of Conduct. Littrell has made it clear numerous times about the second you screw around with social media, again, whether youre directly involved, indirectly involved, bystander or whatever, you include the team and the university in your actions.

a. So you hate Racoons and its no big deal to kill one in your eyes? Fine...

b.But does the entire world feel this way? No..

c. Do you think you YOU can convince planet Earth that its not a big deal to kill a Racoon? eehhhh I'm gonna guess not...

So, based on the last of the three above questions, if the answer is "no" and remembering that you've been warned by the coaches numerous times about stupid decisions regarding social media, you should not be near it, or film it, or upload it, because you'll be guilty by association. I know it's one event, but there's 3 chances that he ignored consequences and moved forward.

So Litrell is going to likely light up KM for doing this, and when KM says "Im sorry about the Racoon, Coach" Litrell is going to reply "it's NOT about the racoon...It's about How I tell you guys to think about your representation to the school, and how I constantly tell you to be cautious about social media!"

So, because he CANT sway everyone's opinion on this animal or that animal, THATS the issue people...Did KM take those things into consideration; School, himself, image and team? Littrell wants those kids to stop and always ask themselves, "ok, is this a good idea?"

I might be old-school, but I'm a big believer when a kid questions why I'm mad about something he did wrong, all I have to answer with is "BECAUSE I TOLD YOU NUMEROUS TIMES NOT TO!!"

Littrell needs to be looking for new assistant coaches and thinking about Spring Practice...Now he's spending a percentage of the time doing discipline and PR Damage control and likely answering dozens of emails from Boards, Press, Fans, Humane Society on and on.... Someone tell me how any of that helps us win next season? The kid needed think first and put the phone away, period.

You might say "It's Just a Racoon..." Well, now it's a hornets nest/sh*t storm of bad press and distraction to the team. It would be easier to just leave you phone in you pocket...That's a lesson for all kids...

Edited January 31, 2019 by trud1966

El Paso Eagle · January 30, 2019

Just wondering ... for those who want him gone - Do you refuse to watch FOX NFL since they have Michael Vick???

GTWT · January 30, 2019

54 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Just wondering ... for those who want him gone - Do you refuse to watch FOX NFL since they have Michael Vick???

Michael Vick suffered serious consequences for his cruelty to animals. Muhammad's behavior should have consequences as well. Whether he should be gone depends on what happened on that day and the role Muhammad played. I hope local law enforcement will determine what was done & by whom. They will determine whether criminal charges should be brought. UNT also has a role to play & we'll see how SL, WB, & the President handle that.

peanuts104 · January 30, 2019

6 hours ago, GTWT said:

Michael Vick suffered serious consequences for his cruelty to animals. Muhammad's behavior should have consequences as well. Whether he should be gone depends on what happened on that day and the role Muhammad played. I hope local law enforcement will determine what was done & by whom. They will determine whether criminal charges should be brought. UNT also has a role to play & we'll see how SL, WB, & the President handle that.

In Texas, wild animals are exempt according to the penal code. One thing I'm not clear on is it mentions that previously captured wild animals would count as domesticated, but it's unclear if they mean like a tiger you've been keeping in your house for a few years or a situation where the animal was recently trapped. Another determining factor would be if this could be justified as training the dogs to hunt and if this is a common practice for training dogs to hunt, it is an exception to the application of the law if the action is occurring solely for the purpose or in support of fishing, hunting, or trapping.

If I am correct in interpreting the law, which I may not be, they would have to adequately define what previously captured means(could be existing case law on it). It would also likely be difficult for the prosecution to prove that this wasn't a hunting training exercise for the dogs. Overall, I doubt a DA would touch the case since conviction percentage is usually one of the top considerations when deciding to hear a case.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-42-092.html

Edited January 31, 2019 by peanuts104

trud1966 · January 30, 2019

29 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Michael Vick suffered serious consequences for his cruelty to animals. Muhammad's behavior should have consequences as well. Whether he should be gone depends on what happened on that day and the role Muhammad played. I hope local law enforcement will determine what was done & by whom. They will determine whether criminal charges should be brought. UNT also has a role to play & we'll see how SL, WB, & the President handle that.

Unfortunately, I agree.. My gut says it wont be good...I'm pretty sure SL has dismissed players from the team for doing much less

Edited January 30, 2019 by trud1966

UNTFan23 · January 30, 2019

40 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Michael Vick suffered serious consequences for his cruelty to animals. Muhammad's behavior should have consequences as well. Whether he should be gone depends on what happened on that day and the role Muhammad played. I hope local law enforcement will determine what was done & by whom. They will determine whether criminal charges should be brought. UNT also has a role to play & we'll see how SL, WB, & the President handle that.

Local could be in Oklahoma or Louisiana. I believe it was mentioned this didn't take place in Texas. Best Denton PD might do is determine whether this took place in Texas or not and then feed their findings over to the proper authorities.