NT vs NDSU Bring Them Down

Aldo · January 7, 2019

2 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

McCarney was aweful in husbandry, which might explain his inability to properly deal with personal relationships that caused him to lose his team in 2015

So he was distracted by a ranch or something?

*runs the numbers*

Ok so I ran the numbers. Passing > running.

meangreendork · January 7, 2019

12 hours ago, greenminer said:

I'm actually with you on your overall point, but we really shouldn't be walking down this path.

McCarney won that ball game with the same system that failed to get him there every other year he was here. The same system that he failed to coach properly. Failed to recruit to properly. Failed to, honestly, care about.

There are a million reasons you are right. Let's use a better one.

Seriously. "Stop the run/run the ball" only works when your defense can also stop passes, when your passing game is effective, when your special teams is effective, and before all of that, your coaching staff is competent at both coaching and recruiting.

MGNation92 · January 7, 2019

36 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

McCarney was aweful at Recruiting.

McCarney was aweful at public speaking and promotions.

McCarney was aweful in husbandry, which might explain his inability to properly deal with personal relationships that led to him to losing his team in 2015?

But he understood game control and that you must run the ball, you must stop the run and you must play solid defense to win championships.

Remember THE STAND.

In three years time he cut Dodge’s Points Per Game allowed from 30 Per game to 17.

Rick

He had one winning season in 5 years.

Don't mistake my post for defending McCarney. He ran the ball and played defense, what did that lead to? The single most embarrassing loss in FBS history.

McCarney ran the ball and played defense all the way to a 22-32 record.

FirefightnRick · January 7, 2019

5 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

He had one winning season in 5 years.

Don't mistake my post for defending McCarney. He ran the ball and played defense, what did that lead to? The single most embarrassing loss in FBS history.

McCarney ran the ball and played defense all the way to a 22-32 record.

He also took over one of the worst programs in FBS and turned it around in 3 years. And I’m not defending him either. I’m defending his philosophy, and when it was clicking it worked. It not only worked here...but at another historically difficult place to win as well in Iowa State.

Rick

Mean Green Matt · January 7, 2019

19 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

He also took over one of the worst programs in FBS and turned it around in 3 years. And I’m not defending him either. I’m defending his philosophy, and when it was clicking it worked. It not only worked here...but at another historically difficult place to win as well in Iowa State.

Rick

Did he really turn it around though? He had one good season with us (nearly every major contributor from that good team was recruited by the prior regime) and before you know it he’s losing by 59 to an FCS school on homecoming.

As for Iowa State, was he really good for them either? He had an overall record of 56-85. That’s terrible. He was 21 games under .500 after 3 years at Iowa State and was a little under .500 for the last 9 years.

FirefightnRick · January 7, 2019

1 hour ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Did he really turn it around though? He had one good season with us (nearly every major contributor from that good team was recruited by the prior regime) and before you know it he’s losing by 59 to an FCS school on homecoming.

As for Iowa State, was he really good for them either? He had an overall record of 56-85. That’s terrible. He was 21 games under .500 after 3 years at Iowa State and was a little under .500 for the last 9 years.

Well I guess “good for them” means different things to different people.

In my book if someone comes along and takes a historical conference doormat program that had been to only 3 bowl games in its entire 105 year history at the time....to 5 more bowl games, and winning the school’s first bowl games, who beats its rival Iowa for the first time in 16 years and would go on to beat Iowa 5 more times in 11 seasons.....then to me that’s being “good for them”.

Rick

UNTLifer · January 8, 2019

Darrell Dickey was 23 games under .500 and made the HOF. Just sayin'

Quoner · January 8, 2019

Congratulations to Alabama for holding Clemson to 41 yards rushing while piling up 152 with a little over 11 min to go!

97and03 · January 8, 2019

30 minutes ago, Quoner said:

Congratulations to Alabama for holding Clemson to 41 yards rushing while piling up 152 with a little over 11 min to go!

Works every time!

FirefightnRick · January 8, 2019

1 hour ago, Quoner said:

Congratulations to Alabama for holding Clemson to 41 yards rushing while piling up 152 with a little over 11 min to go!

You mean congrats to Clemson’s 2nd Ranked Run Defense and 2nd Ranked Total Defense that held UA’s run game below 4 yards a carry including the final 11 minutes and also won the turnover battle starting with a pick 6,...and to its 10th Ranked Run Offense and it’s RB Etienne that averaged over 6 yards a carry,.....all combined to keep the game in control and not blow a 15 point lead and finish the win.

Rick

Edited January 8, 2019 by FirefightnRick

untjim1995 · January 8, 2019

7 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Did he really turn it around though? He had one good season with us (nearly every major contributor from that good team was recruited by the prior regime) and before you know it he’s losing by 59 to an FCS school on homecoming.

As for Iowa State, was he really good for them either? He had an overall record of 56-85. That’s terrible. He was 21 games under .500 after 3 years at Iowa State and was a little under .500 for the last 9 years.

At Iowa State, when the Big 12 formed, he got the two-time national champion in Nebraska, the team that had just finished ranked 5th in Colorado, the team that had just finished ranked 7th in Kansas State, and amazingly, a 10th ranked KU squad to be in his division to play. That didn’t count the Big 12 South teams that would get much better very soon after the league formed. What he did there against that gauntlet was still very impressive, even if the records don’t show it as much.

Mac was a guy who literally let Denton and UNT’s reputation in the TX HS ranks with coaches, players, and recruits turn him from this uber positive guy everywhere he went into a guy who became defeated and bitter. When the PSU loss happened, he had completely lost it—which is why he hasn’t coached again.

Quoner · January 8, 2019

7 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

You mean congrats to Clemson’s 2nd Ranked Run Defense and 2nd Ranked Total Defense that held UA’s run game below 4 yards a carry including the final 11 minutes and also won the turnover battle starting with a pick 6,...and to its 10th Ranked Run Offense and it’s RB Etienne that averaged over 6 yards a carry,.....all combined to keep the game in control and not blow a 15 point lead and finish the win.

Rick

They had more points than rushing yards (44 to 41) when it was a 28 point lead, but if the last drive where they piled up most of 92 yards on the ground while pulling starters is your thing, that's pretty awesome, too. If your take is being good at a lot of things wins national championships, well we certainly agree.

Aldo · January 8, 2019

1 hour ago, Quoner said:

They had more points than rushing yards (44 to 41) when it was a 28 point lead, but if the last drive where they piled up most of 92 yards on the ground while pulling starters is your thing, that's pretty awesome, too. If your take is being good at a lot of things wins national championships, well we certainly agree.

At one point Etienne had 10 carries for 37 yards but what do I know.

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Running to win only works if you've got the personnel and the point of attack to do it. If you don't got it you don't got it.

risinggreen · January 8, 2019

I'm not too enthusiastic about playing the best program in the country that's not FBS. Rather play a Rutgers.

VideoEagle · January 8, 2019

19 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

As for Iowa State, was he really good for them either? He had an overall record of 56-85. That’s terrible. He was 21 games under .500 after 3 years at Iowa State and was a little under .500 for the last 9 years.

Well, McCarney still has the most wins of any coach in their history at 56, but he's their only coach to last 12 years. His overall winning percentage is just .397 which puts him as their 17th best coach.

While being able to run and stop the run can be important, last nights championship game shows it's not a guarantee. Nick Saban is a great coach and he was still blown out.

McCarney was NOT a great coach by any standard!

UNTLifer · January 8, 2019

2 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

McCarney was NOT a great coach by any standard!

The old Grey Goose disagrees.

FirefightnRick · January 9, 2019

13 hours ago, Quoner said:

They had more points than rushing yards (44 to 41) when it was a 28 point lead, but if the last drive where they piled up most of 92 yards on the ground while pulling starters is your thing, that's pretty awesome, too. If your take is being good at a lot of things wins national championships, well we certainly agree.

Im not concerned about yards, just results. What was awesome was a 2nd Ranked Defense that stuffed the baddest team in the nation all night and a ground game that scored Clemson’s three of their first four TD’s. Well,...one of them goes down as a pass technically, but it was a shuttle pass on a power run.

Rick

Edited January 9, 2019 by FirefightnRick

vpackrats · January 9, 2019

Soooooo, is this a NT vs. NDSU thread or a referendum on Dan McCarney? Methinks the comment thread has jumped the shark. Maybe spin the topic wheel and create a separate McCarney thread? Just sayin 😉

Aldo · January 9, 2019

12 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Im not concerned about yards, just results.

FirefightnRick · January 9, 2019

On 1/8/2019 at 8:41 AM, Aldo said:

At one point Etienne had 10 carries for 37 yards but what do I know.

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Running to win only works if you've got the personnel and the point of attack to do it. If you don't got it you don't got it.

Not much.

If you run the ball 10 times and score three touchdowns then the yards gained doesn’t really matter because your still “Running to win”.

Rick

CarmanSandiego · January 9, 2019

15 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Not much.

If you run the ball 10 times and score three touchdowns then the yards gained doesn’t really matter because your still “Running to win”.

Rick

Rick, while I agree with the premise that good defense and running the ball is a recipe for success, the landscape of football, especially college football, has changed from 3 yards and a cloud of dust to more of a high scoring affair. While you do need to run the ball and stop the ball, balance is key and that balance should lean more towards the passing side of the game if you want continued success in today's game.

Also, a spread attack is what helps keep lower schools competitive with the big schools. Talented, big linemen are harder to come by than WR's. Plus, it is more likely than not that you can get more talented receivers on the field than you have DB's to cover them, creating mismatches. If you are those blue chip programs, ball control can work, it is just a lot harder to implement successfully year in and year out when you don't have all 5-star players.

FirefightnRick · January 9, 2019

42 minutes ago, CarmanSandiego said:

it is just a lot harder to implement successfully year in and year out when you don't have all 5-star players.

You mean 5 Star players like what Troy, Ohio, App State and Utah State get? LOL!!!

And for the record I’ve NEVER asked for a 3 yard and a cloud of dust system. Balance is absolutely important...but championships start with defense and the ability to run the ball and control a game.

Rick

Edited January 9, 2019 by FirefightnRick

Quoner · January 9, 2019

7 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

You mean 5 Star players like what Troy, Ohio, App State and Utah State get? LOL!!!

And for the record I’ve NEVER asked for a 3 yard and a cloud of dust system. Balance is absolutely important...but championships start with defense and the ability to run the ball and control a game.

Rick

But they scored 41 points doing not that - Bama had more yards at the cutoff point that started this but a combination of turnovers and absurd 4th down play calls killed deep drives. The game became a blowout because Clemson punished them for every mistake when they got the ball back through the air. It would have still likely been a one possession game in the 3rd if not for arguably the worst fake FG in human history (and another stop by a few feet on 4th down in the red zone later.) The fourth quarter super end drive that evened out the rushing yards was basically the difference between a 51-23 or 58-30 final and the actual margin - they could have named their points in the passing game all night.

No one is saying defense and running suck and don't matter and every play UNT ran in 2018 was awesome (I mean, I hope not, there's probably someone here bc it's GMG), but the game is shifting and that is weird but also cool?

Aldo · January 9, 2019

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

Not much.

If you run the ball 10 times and score three touchdowns then the yards gained doesn’t really matter because your still “Running to win”.

Rick

How do you get into scoring position, Rick?

Aldo · January 9, 2019

Oh and yes the most efficient way to score at the goal line is running the ball. Both film AND analytics says this is the case. No one is disputing that.

How you get there matters, though.