After sleeping on it

GMG24 · December 17, 2018

58 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I get talent. And Utah State was more talented no doubt.

But they pounded us with a coaching staff that consisted of 4 coaches and a bunch of GAs.

Who looked like the more prepared team? Look at the highlights of some of their TDs. Miscommunications in the secondary....CBs pointing at Safeties as their WR goes untouched. Our WRs were blanketed all game...their's were wide open. Which team was "the most excited to play?" It wasn't even close to how much better prepared they were than we were.

Yes Utah State is talented....and we were going to have to play a good game (and remain healthy) to beat them....but our intact coaching staff got destroyed 52-13 by 4 assistant coaches and some grad assistants

This is what’s wrong with that argument... their OC who called plays all year long and guided them to be a top 15 offense in just about every statistical category, was calling plays Saturday. He’s a damn good OC and made us look silly.

TheColonyEagle · December 17, 2018

51 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

This is what’s wrong with that argument... their OC who called plays all year long and guided them to be a top 15 offense in just about every statistical category, was calling plays Saturday. He’s a damn good OC and made us look silly.

Not denying how good they are and how good their OC is...

There was a lot more going on in that game besides Utah St's play calling....

Our D was lost on Saturday, running into each other lost....

We got beat by 40

Edited December 17, 2018 by TheColonyEagle

MeanGreenTexan · December 17, 2018

40 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I get talent. And Utah State was more talented no doubt.

But they pounded us with a coaching staff that consisted of 4 coaches and a bunch of GAs.

Who looked like the more prepared team? Look at the highlights of some of their TDs. Miscommunications in the secondary....CBs pointing at Safeties as their WR goes untouched. Our WRs were blanketed all game...their's were wide open. Which team was "the most excited to play?" It wasn't even close to how much better prepared they were than we were.

Yes Utah State is talented....and we were going to have to play a good game (and remain healthy) to beat them....but our intact coaching staff got destroyed 52-13 by 4 assistant coaches and some grad assistants

They ran uptempo offense on us and really caught us out of position several times (heck, one time they caught us subbing & we were offside). I don't know if that was something that they didn't see on film (how could you not?), or if it was a new wrinkle for the bowl game, but that was the back-breaker for our defense. If it was something they'd done all year (like little Briles' offense) and we weren't ready for it, that is 100% on coaching... not players' talent.

And it's hard to be the most excited team to play when you get punched in the mouth early, come back to tie, only to lose your All-World QB, and watch his substitutes throw 4INTs (can't gift the UTSt offense like that... and we know a healthy Mason would not have) & constantly go 3-out in his stead.

I have very little doubt in my mind that if Mason were not injured, we have a chance to win that game. It would be NOWHERE NEAR 52-13.

MGNation92 · December 17, 2018

12 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

They ran uptempo offense on us and really caught us out of position several times (heck, one time they caught us subbing & we were offside). I don't know if that was something that they didn't see on film (how could you not?), or if it was a new wrinkle for the bowl game, but that was the back-breaker for our defense. If it was something they'd done all year (like little Briles' offense) and we weren't ready for it, that is 100% on coaching... not players' talent.

And it's hard to be the most excited team to play when you get punched in the mouth early, come back to tie, only to lose your All-World QB, and watch his substitutes throw 4INTs (can't gift the UTSt offense like that... and we know a healthy Mason would not have) & constantly go 3-out in his stead.

I have very little doubt in my mind that if Mason were not injured, we have a chance to win that game. It would be NOWHERE NEAR 52-13.

After a quick glance it's hard to say.

We ran more plays/game than they did at 75.1 vs 73.1

but our TOP was 5 minutes longer on average than theirs(31:17 vs 26:46)

Either way it was a wrinkle that our staff/players was clearly not prepared for.

MeanGreenTexan · December 17, 2018

1 minute ago, MGNation92 said:

After a quick glance it's hard to say.

We ran more plays/game than they did at 75.1 vs 73.1

but our TOP was 5 minutes longer on average than theirs(31:17 vs 26:46)

Either way it was a wrinkle that our staff/players was clearly not prepared for.

I think the TOP was largely due to our starting field position VS theirs. & Their quick-strike scores.

I recall looking up at those stats at halftime (losing 38-13) and seeing the TOP was something like 20-something minutes for us VS 8 or 9 minutes for them. Of course, in the 2nd half, they don't have to run uptempo anymore... rather, milk the clock a little.

MGNation92 · December 17, 2018

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I think the TOP was largely due to our starting field position VS theirs. & Their quick-strike scores.

I recall looking up at those stats at halftime (losing 38-13) and seeing the TOP was something like 20-something minutes for us VS 8 or 9 minutes for them. Of course, in the 2nd half, they don't have to run uptempo anymore... rather, milk the clock a little.

Just to clarify, those were season averages. In reference to your "was their offense operating this fast all season?" question.

MeanGreenTexan · December 17, 2018

2 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Just to clarify, those were season averages. In reference to your "was their offense operating this fast all season?" question.

Gotcha.
Yeah, I don't really want to go scouring the webs for UTSt's offense to find out. Looking forward to next year already.

Mad Hatter · December 17, 2018

So, to clarify, is it easier for a coach to recruit to a 1-11, 5-7, or 9-4 year when you also have an Indoor Practice Facility under construction and multiple "largest donations in program history" within the past several months? Oh, plus record single year attendance numbers for Home Games?

Good grief! People act like it's all about the salesman. Sometimes it's about the product too.

FirefightnRick · December 17, 2018

5 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I get talent. And Utah State was more talented no doubt.

But they pounded us with a coaching staff that consisted of 4 coaches and a bunch of GAs.

Who looked like the more prepared team? Look at the highlights of some of their TDs. Miscommunications in the secondary....CBs pointing at Safeties as their WR goes untouched. Our WRs were blanketed all game...their's were wide open. Which team was "the most excited to play?" It wasn't even close to how much better prepared they were than we were.

Yes Utah State is talented....and we were going to have to play a good game (and remain healthy) to beat them....but our intact coaching staff got destroyed 52-13 by 4 assistant coaches and some grad assistants

Just watched my recording of it and the mistakes are unbelievable. We looked like a team that hadn’t practiced in three weeks.

Talent, depth, thin elevation air...none of that had a thing to do with this loss.

Rick

Edited December 18, 2018 by FirefightnRick

TheReal_jayD · December 17, 2018

Just now, FirefightnRick said:

Just watched my recording of it and the mistakes are unbelievable. We looked like a team that hadn’t practiced in three weeks.

Talent, depth, thin elevation air...non of that had a thing to do with this loss.

Rick

bingo.....

Rudy · December 17, 2018

Even with Mason in, we weren't going to win. The first TD drive was helped by two massive USU penalties. Mason wasn't the one snapping the ball, or missing blocks, or missing coverage on the USU receivers, or jumping over a fumbled football.

TrueAg · December 19, 2018

Hey MG fans, USU fan here. I just wanted to offer up some thoughts as I've been reading your board before and after the game. First, it was great to see such a great turnout in NM for NT, I was not expecting that kind of attendance from either side but it was actually quite well attended. I was also impressed by your band and all your other cheer squads that added to the pageantry and atmosphere, it was really something to see them fill out the entire field for a performance.

As for the game, I wouldn't take it as hard as some around here are. Sometimes the game is about match ups, sometimes it's about performance, sometimes it's about injuries/health. In this case I think it was a little bit of all of the above. After talking to quite a few NT fans at the game, I felt like I was talking to our own fans from 8-9 years ago. There is obviously a lot of excitement and hope surrounding your program right now and everyone is looking for that big win or sign that you have taken the next step. In some ways, USU is still going through that. Yes, we spent the majority of the season ranked in the AP, coaches poll, and even the CFP rankings but we are also still looking for a MWC championship and for that elusive P5 road win. It is definitely a long process to turn programs around that have been where ours have been for decades, but I would suggest to enjoy the journey. Hopefully SL continues to build for long term success and y'all start to see the rewards of it in coming years.

To those that had the questions about USU's offensive style; yes, if you turned on tape of any single game this season - this is the same offense you would have seen. From the opening game in East Lansing against MSU, we sprinted up and down the field as fast as we could go on every possession. We did this in every game until the results of the game were in hand and then we would slow it down like how you saw in the 4th qtr of the bowl game. We rarely won time of possession in any game, in fact in one-third of our games this year our defense spent just under 45 min of the game on the field. Of course this is in large part due to our offense now having 27 scoring drives under 1 minute (leads the country). Before our last game of the year at Boise St., we were averaging 51.3 points per game. Going into the NM Bowl, we had scored over 40 points eight times, over 50 six times, over 60 four times, and over 70 one time. The 52 points in the bowl game was essentially our season average. Prior to the bowl game, Jordan Love had only played in six 4th quarters all season because scores were so lopsided, he had sat on the bench for the equivalent of nearly 3 full games. My point is I wouldn't be so harsh about SL not having his team prepared or being "out-coached". It is not like the MG allowed USU to do something that was uncharacteristic or achieve something beyond what they have done all season to many teams.

I will be interested to follow the trajectory of UNT over the next 5-10 years. The right coach can certainly help change things in a hurry but the best coaches are the ones that have the ability to change the entire culture of a program. Hopefully having SL stay will prove to be the latter for your program. I hated to see Fine go down and was looking forward to watching him in this game but I suppose it wasn't in the cards for him. All I know is that I'll be watching him and rooting for the MG in the coming years!

NorthTexasWeLove · December 19, 2018

1 hour ago, TrueAg said:

Hey MG fans, USU fan here. I just wanted to offer up some thoughts as I've been reading your board before and after the game. First, it was great to see such a great turnout in NM for NT, I was not expecting that kind of attendance from either side but it was actually quite well attended. I was also impressed by your band and all your other cheer squads that added to the pageantry and atmosphere, it was really something to see them fill out the entire field for a performance.

As for the game, I wouldn't take it as hard as some around here are. Sometimes the game is about match ups, sometimes it's about performance, sometimes it's about injuries/health. In this case I think it was a little bit of all of the above. After talking to quite a few NT fans at the game, I felt like I was talking to our own fans from 8-9 years ago. There is obviously a lot of excitement and hope surrounding your program right now and everyone is looking for that big win or sign that you have taken the next step. In some ways, USU is still going through that. Yes, we spent the majority of the season ranked in the AP, coaches poll, and even the CFP rankings but we are also still looking for a MWC championship and for that elusive P5 road win. It is definitely a long process to turn programs around that have been where ours have been for decades, but I would suggest to enjoy the journey. Hopefully SL continues to build for long term success and y'all start to see the rewards of it in coming years.

To those that had the questions about USU's offensive style; yes, if you turned on tape of any single game this season - this is the same offense you would have seen. From the opening game in East Lansing against MSU, we sprinted up and down the field as fast as we could go on every possession. We did this in every game until the results of the game were in hand and then we would slow it down like how you saw in the 4th qtr of the bowl game. We rarely won time of possession in any game, in fact in one-third of our games this year our defense spent just under 45 min of the game on the field. Of course this is in large part due to our offense now having 27 scoring drives under 1 minute (leads the country). Before our last game of the year at Boise St., we were averaging 51.3 points per game. Going into the NM Bowl, we had scored over 40 points eight times, over 50 six times, over 60 four times, and over 70 one time. The 52 points in the bowl game was essentially our season average. Prior to the bowl game, Jordan Love had only played in six 4th quarters all season because scores were so lopsided, he had sat on the bench for the equivalent of nearly 3 full games. My point is I wouldn't be so harsh about SL not having his team prepared or being "out-coached". It is not like the MG allowed USU to do something that was uncharacteristic or achieve something beyond what they have done all season to many teams.

I will be interested to follow the trajectory of UNT over the next 5-10 years. The right coach can certainly help change things in a hurry but the best coaches are the ones that have the ability to change the entire culture of a program. Hopefully having SL stay will prove to be the latter for your program. I hated to see Fine go down and was looking forward to watching him in this game but I suppose it wasn't in the cards for him. All I know is that I'll be watching him and rooting for the MG in the coming years!

We would've gotten into he 30s and limited 3 or 4 USU possessions (4 picks) had Fine not went down. USU is a good team, but our team showed up with their D- game minus our all everything QB (hamstring), best WR (hamstring), and best RB (torn ACL)...And it clearly showed. Couldn't have asked for a worse scenario.

Classy post, and good luck to your team next year.

PlummMeanGreen · December 19, 2018

Thank you, TrueAg! Very nice of you.👍👍

FirefightnRick · December 19, 2018

On 12/17/2018 at 1:55 PM, GMG24 said:

their OC who called plays all year long and guided them to be a top 15 offense in just about every statistical category, was calling plays Saturday. He’s a damn good OC and made us look silly.

But does he have a Super Bowl Ring?

Rick

FirefightnRick · December 19, 2018

Utah State National Recruiting Class Rankings per 24/7

.https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/

2015....96th

2016....92nd

2017....104th

2018.....109th

Rick

Edited December 19, 2018 by FirefightnRick

Mike Jackson · December 19, 2018

Make all the typical execuses you want. My counter is that every almost every G5 program can cite you similar execuses. The fact is that each Bowl appearance has progressively gotten worse. And there is NO valid execuse for that in year 3. Mason's injury is not worth 24 points that would have made this game look like a competition. This looked like an early season body-bag game. Against G5 competition without at least 5 NFL draft picks on the roster a dismantling like that is inexcusable. We have reasons to be optimistic but looking like we can't compete with top G5 teams on the national stage is very concerning.

VideoEagle · December 19, 2018

Rewatched the game yesterday while home with a sick child. I was able to pause and go back and look carefully at a lot details of plays.

Articles before the game gave NT a chance of winning only if we managed to get into a high scoring shootout. That was our our chance of winning and that chance was seriously hurt when Rico was confirmed as out. Loosing Fine sealed it - unless something very strange happened we just didn't have the personnel to win.

I was especially curious about our situation at center? Did our center suddenly forget how to snap a ball? I could see as clearly as I wanted, but the USU tackles really appear to have intimidated out guy. They were getting past him and he appears to have started to worry about his blocking before before worrying about the snap. A center much get the ball into the QBs hands cleanly before he worrys about the block. If the snap is bad, the block won't matter! Once the USU guys knew they were in his head, they exploited that. When we tried to give more help to our center, that opened other holes in our line. You can see it clearly on several plays. We were simply out manned on the line and no amount of extra prep short would correct that.

The first USU TD was blown coverage on exactly the wrong guy. You can blame it on a player or on preparation. I think a combination of both.

I don't see how giving our backups a dozen more snaps during garbage time in games over a the entire season was going to make them into "A" level players. You improve during practice, repeating the activities over and over and over. You get timing down by working with the starters a lot. And every snap in practice you give backups is one less you give the actual starter. Practice times are limited and that's why only teams with backups that are already "A" level players do well when the backups come in. Shanbor has had a lot of time to develop into an "A" player and he just didn't.

The altitude didn't cost us the game, but it obviously had an effect. Three downs into a series of the USU hurry up and our guys were clearly winded even during the first quarter. You can see them gasping for breath as they line up! That should NOT stop them from playing, but it will cause them the be one step slower and take one second more to recognize a play in progress. That gave a slight edge that compounded as the game went on. Our D is noticeably better at sea level.

Watching our run blocking, I'm not sure running more would have helped. The holes were few and far between. We weren't fast enough to get plays to the outside. I'm not sure if it was the altitude or just skill but most likely a combination of both.

Overall, the preperation, relative talent levels and altitude all played into this lose. Watching the game, the biggest contributor was the overall talent level differences, but it was more than that. The pre-game analysts were quite correct - we would need a perfect game with us scoring a LOT of points to have a chance at a win. Without out all of our weapons, that couldn't happen.

Philip Ferguson · December 19, 2018

12 hours ago, TrueAg said:

Hey MG fans, USU fan here. I just wanted to offer up some thoughts as I've been reading your board before and after the game. First, it was great to see such a great turnout in NM for NT, I was not expecting that kind of attendance from either side but it was actually quite well attended. I was also impressed by your band and all your other cheer squads that added to the pageantry and atmosphere, it was really something to see them fill out the entire field for a performance.

As for the game, I wouldn't take it as hard as some around here are. Sometimes the game is about match ups, sometimes it's about performance, sometimes it's about injuries/health. In this case I think it was a little bit of all of the above. After talking to quite a few NT fans at the game, I felt like I was talking to our own fans from 8-9 years ago. There is obviously a lot of excitement and hope surrounding your program right now and everyone is looking for that big win or sign that you have taken the next step. In some ways, USU is still going through that. Yes, we spent the majority of the season ranked in the AP, coaches poll, and even the CFP rankings but we are also still looking for a MWC championship and for that elusive P5 road win. It is definitely a long process to turn programs around that have been where ours have been for decades, but I would suggest to enjoy the journey. Hopefully SL continues to build for long term success and y'all start to see the rewards of it in coming years.

To those that had the questions about USU's offensive style; yes, if you turned on tape of any single game this season - this is the same offense you would have seen. From the opening game in East Lansing against MSU, we sprinted up and down the field as fast as we could go on every possession. We did this in every game until the results of the game were in hand and then we would slow it down like how you saw in the 4th qtr of the bowl game. We rarely won time of possession in any game, in fact in one-third of our games this year our defense spent just under 45 min of the game on the field. Of course this is in large part due to our offense now having 27 scoring drives under 1 minute (leads the country). Before our last game of the year at Boise St., we were averaging 51.3 points per game. Going into the NM Bowl, we had scored over 40 points eight times, over 50 six times, over 60 four times, and over 70 one time. The 52 points in the bowl game was essentially our season average. Prior to the bowl game, Jordan Love had only played in six 4th quarters all season because scores were so lopsided, he had sat on the bench for the equivalent of nearly 3 full games. My point is I wouldn't be so harsh about SL not having his team prepared or being "out-coached". It is not like the MG allowed USU to do something that was uncharacteristic or achieve something beyond what they have done all season to many teams.

I will be interested to follow the trajectory of UNT over the next 5-10 years. The right coach can certainly help change things in a hurry but the best coaches are the ones that have the ability to change the entire culture of a program. Hopefully having SL stay will prove to be the latter for your program. I hated to see Fine go down and was looking forward to watching him in this game but I suppose it wasn't in the cards for him. All I know is that I'll be watching him and rooting for the MG in the coming years!

Thanks for this post and your classy perspective. You said one thing that made me feel much better - "It is not like the MG allowed USU to do something that was uncharacteristic or achieve something beyond what they have done all season to many teams." This loss was bad for us, but sounds like a typical game for Utah. If our offense was 100% healthy, we may have made it more interesting. At least we know we'll be bowling again next year, so time will tell. Thanks and Go Mean Green!

USU78 · December 20, 2018

13 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

Rewatched the game yesterday while home with a sick child. I was able to pause and go back and look carefully at a lot details of plays.

Articles before the game gave NT a chance of winning only if we managed to get into a high scoring shootout. That was our our chance of winning and that chance was seriously hurt when Rico was confirmed as out. Loosing Fine sealed it - unless something very strange happened we just didn't have the personnel to win.

I was especially curious about our situation at center? Did our center suddenly forget how to snap a ball? I could see as clearly as I wanted, but the USU tackles really appear to have intimidated out guy. They were getting past him and he appears to have started to worry about his blocking before before worrying about the snap. A center much get the ball into the QBs hands cleanly before he worrys about the block. If the snap is bad, the block won't matter! Once the USU guys knew they were in his head, they exploited that. When we tried to give more help to our center, that opened other holes in our line. You can see it clearly on several plays. We were simply out manned on the line and no amount of extra prep short would correct that.

The first USU TD was blown coverage on exactly the wrong guy. You can blame it on a player or on preparation. I think a combination of both.

I don't see how giving our backups a dozen more snaps during garbage time in games over a the entire season was going to make them into "A" level players. You improve during practice, repeating the activities over and over and over. You get timing down by working with the starters a lot. And every snap in practice you give backups is one less you give the actual starter. Practice times are limited and that's why only teams with backups that are already "A" level players do well when the backups come in. Shanbor has had a lot of time to develop into an "A" player and he just didn't.

The altitude didn't cost us the game, but it obviously had an effect. Three downs into a series of the USU hurry up and our guys were clearly winded even during the first quarter. You can see them gasping for breath as they line up! That should NOT stop them from playing, but it will cause them the be one step slower and take one second more to recognize a play in progress. That gave a slight edge that compounded as the game went on. Our D is noticeably better at sea level.

Watching our run blocking, I'm not sure running more would have helped. The holes were few and far between. We weren't fast enough to get plays to the outside. I'm not sure if it was the altitude or just skill but most likely a combination of both.

Overall, the preperation, relative talent levels and altitude all played into this lose. Watching the game, the biggest contributor was the overall talent level differences, but it was more than that. The pre-game analysts were quite correct - we would need a perfect game with us scoring a LOT of points to have a chance at a win. Without out all of our weapons, that couldn't happen.

Didn't want to mention what I saw concerning your man in the middle, but you are absolutely right. One guy not stepping up in a big game can make a huge difference.