Graham Harrell to UNC as OC under Mack Brown?? Question no info apparently...

MeanGreenTexan · December 8, 2018

8 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I mean you have to deviate from the game plan. Football is chess, but your board is 100 yards and your pieces are human. The script they put together is more times than not really, really good. They come out with energy and they execute said script. But then the scroll runs dry and GH is left up there just sort of spitballing and sometimes it's ugly.

You are absolutely correct here.

He’ll learn. It would be fantastic if he got a crash course this offseason though.

NorthTexasWeLove · December 8, 2018

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You are absolutely correct here.

He’ll learn. It would be fantastic if he got a crash course this offseason though.

Maybe he takes his role to the sideline? Most OC's do it from the booth, some like the view from the sideline with defensive placement in his ear from the booth. I don't know. It's working good for the pro GH people, I get it. But it could be working great. Change it up. Find the problem and apply a solution to it.

RiseUNT · December 8, 2018

But wait someone on twitter had the scoop. It must be true right?

TheColonyEagle · December 8, 2018

Just now, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Maybe he takes his role to the sideline? Most OC's do it from the booth, some like the view from the sideline with defensive placement in his ear from the booth. I don't know. It's working good for the pro GH people, I get it. But it could be working great. Change it up. Find the problem and apply a solution to it.

Count me as one that was VERY frustrated with the wall this offense would hit. I agree with your earlier point about Littrell taking a bigger role in play calling. I still think that if GH has his way, he would go full Leach and throw the ball 60 times a game. I think Littrell likes to run the ball (which I like)

I think I’ve decided that they are both still young. And they’re both headed into year 4 and they had a lot of things to learn from this season. I look for improvement and learning from this years mistakes next season.

NorthTexasWeLove · December 8, 2018

8 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Count me as one that was VERY frustrated with the wall this offense would hit. I agree with your earlier point about Littrell taking a bigger role in play calling. I still think that if GH has his way, he would go full Leach and throw the ball 60 times a game. I think Littrell likes to run the ball (which I like)

I think I’ve decided that they are both still young. And they’re both headed into year 4 and they had a lot of things to learn from this season. I look for improvement and learning from this years mistakes next season.

And if we can put up 50 a game throwing it 60 a game, do it. If we can put up 50 a game going 50/50, do it. This offense, in my mind, has 50 a game potential. The offenses potential is not being maximized. And for the love of me, 3rd/4th and short play calling has to be taken out of the hands of whoever is doing it. Put a lineman in there at QB and QB sneak with a lineman at FB to push his ass 3 feet. Something, anything.

meanrob · December 8, 2018

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

I'm not sure what's the truth anymore.

F me! Christmas is ruined!!!!

TheReal_jayD · December 8, 2018

29 minutes ago, meanrob said:

F me! Christmas is ruined!!!!

I wouldnt say that. If he was bad P5 wouldnt be fighting over him..

97and03 · December 8, 2018

14 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

I wouldnt say that. If he was bad P5 wouldnt be fighting over him..

I thought you were some kind of football expert? I am not, but I watched the games and saw a team that was COMPLETELY figured out after game 4. I was at the ODU game and it was just awful. We hired an OC with only 3 years total coaching experience and he is still learning on the job. If he were to leave, I would hope his replacement would already have more experience than he has now.

emmitt01 · December 8, 2018

Here’s something that gets lost in all the GH sucks conversation. Early in the year we could run at any point because Easley could move the chains on his own.

4th and 1 is a different story with a back that can run through people. And 1st and 10 that turns into 2nd and <6 is a lot different. Let’s face it, he ran behind the same line that got manhandled late in the season...he just made things happen.

NorthTexasWeLove · December 8, 2018

7 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Here’s something that gets lost in all the GH sucks conversation. Early in the year we could run at any point because Easley could move the chains on his own.

4th and 1 is a different story with a back that can run through people. And 1st and 10 that turns into 2nd and <6 is a lot different. Let’s face it, he ran behind the same line that got manhandled late in the season...he just made things happen.

I would like to agree with at to an extent, but that's more to the story than that.

Also Torrey had 977 yards rushing in back up duty and mid season starting reps. When you have an offensive tendency teams key on it. People are handsomely paid to find your tendencies and exploit them in the game. If we, getting paid 0 dollars by any university in the country to know or teach football, know what our weaknesses are and situational tendencies are we have to assume that the opposing coaches know these very tendencies that we complain about. Easley is good and probably a better power runner. But some of these stuffs on our short down attempts were keyed on and shut down.

97and03 · December 8, 2018

41 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Here’s something that gets lost in all the GH sucks conversation. Early in the year we could run at any point because Easley could move the chains on his own.

4th and 1 is a different story with a back that can run through people. And 1st and 10 that turns into 2nd and <6 is a lot different. Let’s face it, he ran behind the same line that got manhandled late in the season...he just made things happen.

Let's say your argument has merit (check another thread for the actual data that has different conclusions, but whatever). If so, would it not be the job of the OC to adjust to this new situation? Because in your scenario this did not happen.

Hunter Green · December 8, 2018

3 hours ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

I've never understood the dislike of GH here, he does a good job IMO.

The offense has gotten better each year and continuity matters in college football.

I'm happy (if) he is staying. GMG.

Well, we could still have Ramon Flannigan!

emmitt01 · December 8, 2018

26 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

Well, we could still have Ramon Flannigan!

Don’t threaten people

Aquila_Viridis · December 8, 2018

I don’t know why they haven’t been coming up with a Stage 2 after the opponent adapts. You know the decent teams are going to adapt. Have to leave some surprises for them.

peanuts104 · December 8, 2018

Well, I started this thread and I'll be damned if I don't take responsibility for it. I cannot find any information that clarifies the situation. Early reports said he was gone, slightly more recent reports said he isn't. So....he's probably staying? That's my current 4:06ireallyneedtogotobedam assessment.

outoftown · December 8, 2018

10 hours ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

I've never understood the dislike of GH here, he does a good job IMO.

The offense has gotten better each year and continuity matters in college football.

I'm happy (if) he is staying. GMG.

I think it is a case of expectation vs reality focus. Last season (2017) NT did pretty awesome by its long-term standards and brought back 9 or 10 of its offensive players including the QB, and all the WRs and most of the OL. So many expected that to improve or hold at least steady. Then this year happened and the offense was still pretty good, great by NT standards, but it definitely did not improve, if anything it regressed. Instead the defense improved a lot.

NT lost 3 games and it was hard not to think that if you asked what NT needed to go undefeated would be some improvement from the D and the O just holding ground. If you focus on that perspective, the D delivered on that, the O did not (at least if you go by ratings such as S&P+). It doesn't help that some of those losses felt as if some offensive play calling decisions were questionable.

However f you focus at how the offense works overall without any specific reference to 2017, then GH is undoubtedly great and it would not be easy to replace his QB development for one (It feels like even the backups are developing nicely).

In my mind both perspectives have some merit.

Edited December 8, 2018 by outoftown

Professor Lambeau · December 8, 2018

9 hours ago, 97and03 said:

I thought you were some kind of football expert? I am not, but I watched the games and saw a team that was COMPLETELY figured out after game 4. I was at the ODU game and it was just awful. We hired an OC with only 3 years total coaching experience and he is still learning on the job. If he were to leave, I would hope his replacement would already have more experience than he has now.

And in those 3 years, he was an outside receivers coach at Washington State.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/washington-state-hires-former-texas-tech-qb-graham-harrell/

Coach GH serves two roles: OC and QB coach. I believe most are happy with him as the QB coach as Mason has developed into a better quarterback each year. My guess is most are unhappy with his role as OC and the play calling. I never really understood the OC role under Coach GH when Coach SL could have performed those duties or hired someone with much more experience. The offense is really good, at times, but I happen to think it could be much more productive.

southsideguy · December 8, 2018

You have to give him credit we did have a lot of receivers wide open during most of the games. If he would just lose that 4th and 1 play I would be a happy person. Some of the play calling can be blamed on the poor pass protection Mason got this season. Give him time and he will destroy teams. In that lose to LATECH their very average qb looked like a world beater because I don't think he even got knocked down in the game. He had a career game against us because of his protection. Mason has run for his life a lot of the time and that is not on play calling it is on the pass protection.

If we can protect Mason next year we will win CUSA. We may have to outscore the other team because I am not sure we can backfill the defense because it is hard to replace people like EJ, Garner, Young and Hall.

NorthTexasWeLove · December 8, 2018

8 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

You have to give him credit we did have a lot of receivers wide open during most of the games. If he would just lose that 4th and 1 play I would be a happy person. Some of the play calling can be blamed on the poor pass protection Mason got this season. Give him time and he will destroy teams. In that lose to LATECH their very average qb looked like a world beater because I don't think he even got knocked down in the game. He had a career game against us because of his protection. Mason has run for his life a lot of the time and that is not on play calling it is on the pass protection.

If we can protect Mason next year we will win CUSA. We may have to outscore the other team because I am not sure we can backfill the defense because it is hard to replace people like EJ, Garner, Young and Hall.

This is partially true when MF gets A gap pressures on blitzes and it was hidden well and his time is less than a second. But he still has a tendency at times to hang onto that ball a little too long. And as the OC, you see your OL being overmatched, it's the OCs job to call plays that alleviate the rush. We still call developing digs and high lows options when it's visually plain to see we may be struggling a bit in pass pro. That falls on the OC, can't do that.

southsideguy · December 8, 2018

On some of the rushes, I don't think any play could be called to alleviate the rush because it seems the DL, blitz is the backfield before the ball gets to Mason. It is all tied together but I see your point.

NorthTexasWeLove · December 8, 2018

7 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

On some of the rushes, I don't think any play could be called to alleviate the rush because it seems the DL, blitz is the backfield before the ball gets to Mason. It is all tied together but I see your point.

Yeah, typically when he gets someone in his lap before the ball touches his hands it's interior pressure. That's on the OL not recognizing what's coming at them and not being able to assign a hat to a hat pre-snap. This is on the OL coach for not correcting the same mistakes.

Edited December 8, 2018 by NorthTexasWeLove

Professor Lambeau · December 8, 2018

31 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

You have to give him credit we did have a lot of receivers wide open during most of the games. If he would just lose that 4th and 1 play I would be a happy person. Some of the play calling can be blamed on the poor pass protection Mason got this season. Give him time and he will destroy teams. In that lose to LATECH their very average qb looked like a world beater because I don't think he even got knocked down in the game. He had a career game against us because of his protection. Mason has run for his life a lot of the time and that is not on play calling it is on the pass protection. 

If we can protect Mason next year we will win CUSA. We may have to outscore the other team because I am not sure we can backfill the defense because it is hard to replace people like EJ, Garner, Young and Hall.

It is the job of OC to implement different formations to help alleviate the rush and provide better protection for MF. I would love to see a tight end to help the left tackle (the tight end after providing some blocking help could easily be used as a last option on a pass play). I would love to see QS used in more play calling to keep the QB run option viable and then follow it up with MF running some (although very limited). It just seems to me that a more experienced OC could make the adjustments based on the issues you identified and be much more creative.

Philip Ferguson · December 8, 2018

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southsideguy · December 8, 2018

I think GH is still growing in the job and with we have growing pains. Hopefully, he learned a lot of last year and our offensive line will get better. Last year it looked like we used the Fullback just to help protect MF. I think he could easily be used in short yardage situation. Number 44 is a big dude. If we would have handed off to him once in a while or flat pass we would catch the defenses by surprise because we never use the position to run or pass to. The offense did put up big numbers but we need to learn to cash on those big number at a better rate.

One thing that hurt us a lot last year was personal foul penalties. Eliminate those and we would have beat LATECH.

Professor Lambeau · December 8, 2018

1 hour ago, southsideguy said:

I think GH is still growing in the job and with we have growing pains. Hopefully, he learned a lot of last year and our offensive line will get better. Last year it looked like we used the Fullback just to help protect MF. I think he could easily be used in short yardage situation. Number 44 is a big dude. If we would have handed off to him once in a while or flat pass we would catch the defenses by surprise because we never use the position to run or pass to. The offense did put up big numbers but we need to learn to cash on those big number at a better rate.

One thing that hurt us a lot last year was personal foul penalties. Eliminate those and we would have beat LATECH.

1

I think this is our difference in GH. You are "ok" with him because he is still growing as an OC, while I have seen enough and would like to see someone with more experience (or have Coach SL call plays). I respect both viewpoints.

There seems a lack of adjustment on our part when the defense adjusts to what we are initially doing. Why isn't a fullback used more frequently to help out, as you suggested? A tight end to help the left tackle? Or when 4th and 1 yard, put the QB under center (the defense might jump off-sides in shock)? For me, it's the lack of adaptability that is frustrating. And when two posters on a message board have "obvious ideas" that would seem to help the team, it is worrisome in that they are not used more often. 🙂

Edited December 8, 2018 by Professor Lambeau