K-State could win the Big 12 anytime

[meangreanmick]

40 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You said it was "more likely" he would fail.  I don't think so.
"or his other option", which to me sounds like you think he has 2 options:   Stay here, or "more likely" fail at KSSt.

Every single negative thing you said about KSSt was applicable to North Texas prior to him wanting to take this job.    And he turned this thing around VERY quickly... so here we are.   We're lucky to have him, and I think KSSt would be too.

 

Poorly worded on my part, I meant he was more likely to fail, than to succeed at Kansas State, I didn’t mean as compared to UNT.

in my opinion, Kansas State just isn’t a place with a high likelihood for success over a sustained period at the P5 level.  The resources, support, location, history don’t put them in the top 35 or 40 programs, in my opinion.  So, if SL wants to be at a top 20 program, I don’t think KSU is his destination, he is going there to hopefully have enough success to jump before the reality of haves and have nots catches up with him at P5 level.

thus, there a lot of risk in that.  But to be clear, maybe more risk to that in staying, I don’t know. Might as well take the money.

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, Mike Jackson said:

Nope I said it back before he came.  Since UNT invested in the program after Dickey. And if we hired a competent staff to replace Dickey we would have been nearly as bad as we were.   

And if you are comparing La Tech's relative conference strength to OU's AND Texas 🤷🏾‍♂️ I don't even know how to address that. 

 

It's OK.

Also, if you call whatever was going on after Dickey "investing in the program" (basically anything going on during Battaille's term as President) you definitely weren't paying attention.

[Mike Jackson]

On 12/4/2018 at 10:35 AM, MeanGreenTexan said:

It's OK.

Also, if you call whatever was going on after Dickey "investing in the program" (basically anything going on during Battaille's term as President) you definitely weren't paying attention.

The went cheap in coaches but they did invest.  You don't go 63 million in debt in 2017 just from coach Mac's staff.  Compared to our Sun Belt competition  how were we falling short?  

[Mike Jackson]

It is all about Recruiting against your conference rivals.  You have to look how recruits view a school and program without their current coaching staffs to gauge that.  In other words if the you completely reset he conference's coaching staffs and imagine if Texas area recruits had to choose school without knowing who the new coach would be and rank the selection order on average.  In the Big 12 that is very clear. 

1. Texas

1. A. Oklahoma 

Then everyone else and KSU is probably not 2

In CUSA West is not at all clear.  

UAB, La Tech, and UNT are basically on equal footing.  Recruits in Texas aren't familiar the successful program histories of UAB and La Tech.  Denton is probably a more attractive destination than Ruston or Brimingham to most Texas recruits who don't already live in DFW area and wants to venture out.  

So fundamentally to me UNT is an easier place to achieve and maintain conference success as long as the CUSA remains basically the same.   You can have top 3 conference recruiting classes every year.  Sure if you get 2 or 3 top conference recruiting classes at KSU and coach them up to that level or beyond you are on the fast track for the best P5 jobs that come open.  But in that situation you better leave KSU for the first good offer because one bad year near the end of a contract and you are on the street looking for Assitant jobs or HC jobs less attractive than a top half G5 conference HC job.  All that said I make KSU overpay to get me.  You put together an undefeated season here you make all that missed money back with a top notch P5 offer.  It can be done here and he sees that.  If his QB and OL Recruits are progressing like he expects and wants, he stays beyond Mason Fine sans a P5 offer better than KSU.

 

 

[UNTcrazy727]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:30 AM, meangreanmick said:

A misconception, so you are saying there is no chance he goes to KSU and fails and doesn’t get another chance at the high end P5 job he wants?  History says otherwise.

You are missing my point anyway, that’s not what I said.  I didn’t say it was only one of those 2 options you laid out,  I said it was a calculated risk either way, to stay or go, and I didn’t blame him for taking the money.  He might go and have enough success in 2-3 years to jump to the job he wants.  BUT, nobody with realistic look at college football would believe he would take KSU job to go compete for national championships.

 

And yes, I wish UNT football was where KSU was, so no, I’m not saying this job is better than that one.

 

KSU is a bottom half P5 programs (and Big12 for that matter).  They win just enough here and there to give fans hope that maybe someday.  But they have never had any real sustained success at the top of P5.

 

they have had 6 football CONFERENCE  championships since 1909, and only 2 in the last 75 years.  

 

It could be a misconception on my part, but no real history of  football success for the past 75 years, low end of P5 resources, trying to recruit kids to Kansas, seems like there is a risk of failing at the P5  level at a place like that.

 

EDIT: and yes he could stay at Notth Texas and fail, that’s why it’s a calculated risk either way.

From 1993 to 2014 KSU finished ranked in the top 20 13 times. Not sure how that doesn't qualify as "sustained success". 

They'll never be OU or Texas, but I think they have the resources to compete with them and be a top level Big 12 program. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

5 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

... 

So fundamentally to me UNT is an easier place to achieve and maintain conference success as long as the CUSA remains basically the same.   ...

 

 

I was lost before, but now you really lost me.

Is this where you want NT to remain?   
Being a big fish in a drying-up pond?   
If so, no thank you, and I really wouldn't blame a coach with ambition leaving if staying status quo & dominating.

Also, going back to the same argument I keep making...   Would you have considered NT an easy place to achieve & maintain success in 2015 when Littrell took over?    Or, do you consider it easy because of what Littrell has built over the past 3 seasons?  The only positive type of conversation I can remember hearing about in 2015 was "sleeping giant" type stuff... hope.  That's it.

[Aldo]

Kansas State is so good y'all.

You know when they finish average or above average in their 10-12 team league that's always a good sign.

[Censored by Laurie]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:12 PM, drex said:

Recruiting to Manhattan, Kansas must be a nightmare.

I wonder how many 17 year olds have been left stranded for hours at LGA waiting for a guy in a purple shirt to scoop them up and show them campus. 

[Christopher Walker]

53 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Kansas State is so good y'all.

You know when they finish average or above average in their 10-12 team league that's always a good sign.

Out of curiosity, I was looking at Winsipedia...

🙂

Now, don't no one go looking at the rest of that page, now. Ya' hear?

Edited December 6, 2018 by Christopher Walker

[southsideguy]

Then what have they been waiting for?

[Christopher Walker]

This prompted me to investigate the conference championship list further. This is a beautiful bar graph:

[meangreenlax]

The Big 12 is a dying conference. UT and OU are as good as gone in the 2020s. The KSU and OSU's of the world won't be so happy and quick to talk smack when their gravy train comes to an end. 

[UNTLifer]

OSU will really be pissed at that point.  By the 2020's, the Big XII and Boone Pickens could both be gone.

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, meangreenlax said:

The Big 12 is a dying conference. UT and OU are as good as gone in the 2020s. The KSU and OSU's of the world won't be so happy and quick to talk smack when their gravy train comes to an end. 

I think OSU has some kind of Oklahoma State Legislature protection that ties them to OU as far as conference affiliation is concerned.    Oklahoma cannot accept an invite on their own, must have little brother tag along.

[meangreenlax]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I think OSU has some kind of Oklahoma State Legislature protection that ties them to OU as far as conference affiliation is concerned.    Oklahoma cannot accept an invite on their own, must have little brother tag along.

Some of these schools are playing life on easy mode with all of their state legislature friends.

[meangreanmick]

8 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

From 1993 to 2014 KSU finished ranked in the top 20 13 times. Not sure how that doesn't qualify as "sustained success". 

They'll never be OU or Texas, but I think they have the resources to compete with them and be a top level Big 12 program. 

Most of those were over 20 years ago.  So, we could say in the past 14 years they have been ranked 3 times.

[Cats86]

On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 6:45 PM, emmitt01 said:

If a meteor wiped out the entire state of Oklahoma

And Austin...and Fort Worth for good measure

And the cross state rival hadn’t just hired a guy with a national title on his resume

So, basically, anytime they want.

K-State is 9-6 vs UT since the inception of the Big 12...and before k-states downfall in '13 they were 7-2 against the horns in conference games

http://www.winsipedia.com/games/texas/vs/kansas-state

[Cats86]

And I don't even want Littrell, I think he's still too unproven. Lets no pretend that K-State was never dominant though, you sound silly. K-State is one of only 2 teams EVER to win 11 games six times in a seven year span. If the playoffs were around when Snyder was in his prime he would have gone to at least two or three

[Cats86]

And I don't care what any of you say. If you have a tied record with OU and beat them head to head at their place, that is as "out-right" as it gets

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, Cats86 said:

K-State is 9-6 vs UT since the inception of the Big 12...and before k-states downfall in '13 they were 7-2 against the horns in conference games

http://www.winsipedia.com/games/texas/vs/kansas-state

And UT hasn't been a notable opponent since 2009. 

[Cats86]

yeah I hadn't heard of Ricky Williams and Vince Young or Mack Brown until I just googled Texas football

[NorthTexasWeLove]

2 minutes ago, Cats86 said:

yeah I hadn't heard of Ricky Williams and Vince Young or Mack Brown until I just googled Texas football

What are you talking about. Sounding like a real winner. 

[vpackrats]

10 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

From 1993 to 2014 KSU finished ranked in the top 20 13 times. Not sure how that doesn't qualify as "sustained success". 

They'll never be OU or Texas, but I think they have the resources to compete with them and be a top level Big 12 program. 

Dangit man!  Quit using stats and verifiable facts to prove KSU has had sustained football success over recent history.  I want speculation, innuendo and random hot sports opinions that say KSU isn't that good!

[Mike Jackson]

On 12/6/2018 at 7:29 PM, vpackrats said:

Dangit man!  Quit using stats and verifiable facts to prove KSU has had sustained football success over recent history.  I want speculation, innuendo and random hot sports opinions that say KSU isn't that good!

If were such a good job and Texas and OU weren't huge hurdles to win the conference I think Seth is gone.   But guess what?   He is still here.

[All About UNT]

Our newer and younger posters might not know the Kansas State actually pulled their goal posts down when they beat us in 1989.

*Warning* Mullets are aplenty