If North Texas Were P5, Would Schools Looking At Littrell Now Be Mostly A Lateral Move?

[PlummMeanGreen]

DON’T GET EXCITED BECAUSE THIS IS JUST FOR SPECULATION & DOWN THE ROAD MAYBE A WAY TO IMPROVE NORTH TEXAS MEAN GREEN  ATHLETIC’S FUTURE  WITH SIGNIFICANT P5 TV REVENUES.

Forget those All Conference teams but no sacrifice since we’d be trading that for all the other percs for being an Independent in a totally different era to be an Independent but now as a P5 member being eligible to get P5 TV revenues. 

Could North Texas be a P5 Independent with schools like BYU, Southern Miss, Boise & other frustrated G5 schools hating their G5 lot in NCAA life yet “each operate as an Independent P5 program?

➡️ Otherwise, 30 years down the road aren't we looking at North Texas still being in a 30,000 seat “G5 stadium” with all the others while we welcome schools like Sam Houston St, Stephen F. Ausin , Midwestern St., ACU & Houston Baptist to what would be a  “minus 2.0  regional version” of CUSA?   A conference where we have to pay cable TV networks to televise our games?😳

Edited November 16, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

[meangreenlax]

2 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Could North Texas be a P5 Independent with schools like BYU, Southern Miss, Boise & other frustrated G5 schools hating their G5 lot in NCAA life yet “each operate as an Independent P5 program?

No.

2 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Otherwise, 30 years down the road aren't we looking at North Texas still being in a 30,000 seat “G5 stadium”

I actually think that schools are going to be looking at lower attendance projections in the future. There are like 10 schools that sell out regularly. Everyone else is having the same issues we are. People much rather stay home and watch events. The future is streaming.

[PlummMeanGreen]

12 hours ago, meangreenlax said:

No.

I actually think that schools are going to be looking at lower attendance projections in the future. There are like 10 schools that sell out regularly. Everyone else is having the same issues we are. People much rather stay home and watch events. The future is streaming.

Read the whole paragraph.  It’s not about attendance rather TV revenues where P5’s will always trump G5’s in that area.  

Most P5 foes at Apogee will draw larger crowds (assuming we are winning regularly) & based on the fact that most our fans will know who the hell we are playing for a change.

.❇️ Playing regional P5’s who would bring 5K to 10K fans to Apogee to play a Top 25 Mean Green football program would put us in new, exciting “never seen before in Denton unchartered waters.”  Dream on?  What is life all about if not dreaming for improvement?

Those in OldDenton & beyond who can never look beyond the last 50 years yet see us always being the same need to probably go on to the next thread on “what shade of green” for next year or is it a jointed or disjointed “NT.” 🙄

Edited November 17, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

[PlummMeanGreen]

Aim small—-you’ll get there.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

We need to go Indy especially while we're decent. Otherwise, we will indeed be relegated to FCS 2.0 with probably current FCS programs such as SFA, ACU, SHSU merging with the likes of us, utsa and TX St. That is not a situation I want to see us thrusted into. The university and athletic department has to make futuristic proactive decisions or they'll be forced to make reactive decisions. 

We have 4 OOC games on the docket for the next 6 to 8 years. Inform CUSA that at the start of 2022 UNT will be withdrawing from membership. 3 1/2 years to fill 8 games. It can be done. 

[meangreanmick]

11 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

We need to go Indy especially while we're decent. Otherwise, we will indeed be relegated to FCS 2.0 with probably current FCS programs such as SFA, ACU, SHSU merging with the likes of us, utsa and TX St. That is not a situation I want to see us thrusted into. The university and athletic department has to make futuristic proactive decisions or they'll be forced to make reactive decisions. 

We have 4 OOC games on the docket for the next 6 to 8 years. Inform CUSA that at the start of 2022 UNT will be withdrawing from membership. 3 1/2 years to fill 8 games. It can be done. 

Not a good idea to go Indy unless you have the skins to dictate things.  We don’t, and would be shut out of all bowl games.  We would have to go beat the top P5 programs (multiple in 1 year) and go undefeated to even get a sniff at a bowl game.

Lets just win CUSA once before we think we are ready to move on.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

17 minutes ago, meangreanmick said:

Not a good idea to go Indy unless you have the skins to dictate things.  We don’t, and would be shut out of all bowl games.  We would have to go beat the top P5 programs (multiple in 1 year) and go undefeated to even get a sniff at a bowl game.

Lets just win CUSA once before we think we are ready to move on.

I know it's a scary proposition. But if we want to do what we actually want to do It's necessary. And we won't have to go undefeated to get into a bowl. If any indy team gets to 6 or 7 wins they're bowling. WB is already pulling us away from the opportunity games and has done a good job of scheduling home and homes. It will undoubtedly make his job more difficult but it's necessary to get ahead of the game. If announced with proper intent and timing it would be national news and that news would create a lot of scheduling opportunities. We will forever be a nobody if we don't dictate our future. 

And it's not about winning CUSA, it's about setting up the program for the inevitable evolution of college football. If you think CUSA is the best long term goal of UNT football then that's your opinion and I respect and understand that opinion. It's the safe short term solution. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by NorthTexasWeLove

[PlummMeanGreen]

5 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I know it's a scary proposition. But if we want to do what we actually want to do It's necessary. And we won't have to go undefeated to get into a bowl. If any indy team gets to 6 or 7 wins they're bowling. WB is already pulling us away from the opportunity games and has done a good job of scheduling home and homes. It will undoubtedly make his job more difficult but it's necessary to get ahead of the game. If announced with proper intent and timing it would be national news and that news would create a lot of scheduling opportunities. We will forever be a nobody if we don't dictate our future. 

And it's not about winning CUSA, it's about setting up the program for the inevitable evolution of college football. If you think CUSA is the best long term goal of UNT football then that's your opinion and I respect and understand that opinion. It's the safe short term solution. 

Yes, any bold move is a scary proposition.  

We finally have a staff & administration in Denton  who can make things happen sooner than later. Look how quickly this group makes things happen?  Littrell staying & recruiting lights out the next 3 years would be good, but would not be the end of our Mean Green world if he left for a P5 school.  

Our curse has always been being located in a major league sports market where sports fans will not get excited about something perceived to be minor sports. Notice who we draw against & who doesn’t draw.  We hit 2 milestones this season with great crowds for the SMU & La Tech games which shows what can happen when we win & all pistons are running.

Years of losing & poor management has been a problem, but if a school with almost 850,000 in our favorite school’s home county;  a school whose Denton main campus statisticians say has over 250,000 alums in a 5 county Metroplex & a school cloing in on 40,000 enrollment with more needed dorms on the way located in one helluva’ TV market—-anyway these are all positive things that would work in our favor if we were to actively pursue an NCAA TV-revenue producing environment.  

Our choice is to stay lumped in with a very large number of other G5 schools who don’t draw well agsinst each other & all with 30,000 seat stadiums & subsequently playing each other ( YAWN) in bowl games that don’t draw well or never command good TV ratings.  

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

[Mean Green Matt]

I’m so confused by this. Extremely confused. 

[PlummMeanGreen]

9 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I’m so confused by this. Extremely confused. 

The last 40 years roller coaster ride with a program that rarely knew who  to hire & then being slow to fire those who were part of a very mediocre program confused some of us.  I’m just one who says what he feels, but for what it’s worth there are some very finicky W/L records the past 4 plus decades to back up what I’m saying about a roller coaster ride.  

♦️ G5 is basically a nice “letter & number” combo for what used to be NCAA1-AA & the “We po’ but proud” mindset we developed forever. (I can count about 8 or 9 schools North Texas was once at the same level who went “BEEP! BEEP!” right past us. • Begin with schools we were once affiliated in the old Missouri Valley Conference.

 Easy to see that if UTSA ever gets their caca together & wins (& they will) they could be the next school to pass us by.  UTSA?  They have the city; the domed stadium that hosts a bowl game & in their first few years they have already hosted some pretty impressive “name” OOC games &...(again) “they have  a city” that it won’t take 100 years to decide if they want to support their football program or not (like a particular one we can all relate to). Still confused?

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

[Mean Green Matt]

30 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

The last 40 years roller coaster ride with a program that rarely knew who  to hire & then being slow to fire those who were part of a very mediocre program confused some of us.  I’m just one who says what he feels, but for what it’s worth there are some very finicky W/L records the past 4 plus decades to back up what I’m saying about a roller coaster ride.  

♦️ G5 is basically a nice “letter & number” combo for what used to be NCAA1-AA & the “We po’ but proud” mindset we developed forever. (I can count about 8 or 9 schools North Texas was once at the same level who went “BEEP! BEEP!” right past us. • Begin with schools we were once affiliated in the old Missouri Valley Conference.

 Easy to see that if UTSA ever gets their caca together & wins (& they will) they could be the next school to pass us by.  UTSA?  They have the city; the domed stadium that hosts a bowl game & in their first few years they have already hosted some pretty impressive “name” OOC games &...(again) “they have  a city” that it won’t take 100 years to decide if they want to support their football program or not (like a particular one we can all relate to). Still confused?

 

Yes. Probably even a little more confused. It doesn’t really matter what you call it. We need the same success and fan support to get to the next level whether we are in a conference or not. Going independent and calling ourselves a P5 is absolutely meaningless. All it does is take away our chance to play for a conference title. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Mean Green Matt

[NorthTexasWeLove]

2 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Yes. Probably even a little more confused. It doesn’t really matter what you call it. We need the same success and fan support to get to the next level whether we are in a conference or not. Going independent and calling ourselves a P5 is absolutely meaningless. All it does is take away our chance to play for a conference title. 

What did the Dickey title runs do for this program? What's a CUSA title going to do for UAB this season? What did the West div title do for us last season? 

Manage our schedule...throw some home and homes in there from the MAC and MWC and AAC. Keep striving for the home and homes like we currently have with Cal and Tech. Go grab a home and home from the ACC and Big10 while we're at it. Set it up where the breakaway year has 4 P5 home and homes. A damn good reputable schedule could be put together that is both respectable to the perception of the program and meaningful for fans. Not to mention the immediate uptick in recruiting due to competition on the schedule. 

It can be done, and if a 'CuSa title' the thing holding the idea back then I dunno what to tell you. 

[tmjerm]

[southsideguy]

that is scary

 

[PlummMeanGreen]

12 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Yes. Probably even a little more confused. It doesn’t really matter what you call it. We need the same success and fan support to get to the next level whether we are in a conference or not. Going independent and calling ourselves a P5 is absolutely meaningless. All it does is take away our chance to play for a conference title. 

Financially it probably keeps us from going down another level or moving the deck chairs around to merely be in another meaningless G5 conference.  

👀 Look, I’m realistic enough to know there is no place for our favorite school at the P5 level now, but the journey of a thousand miles begins with that important 1’st step & our powers that be should not allow a school with our (amazing) constituency in the population center we are in to spend the next 30 years treading water at the G5 level.   

Begin a serious study now with Smatresk, the BOR’s, Wren Baker & the MegaDonors to see what other schools like Houston, Boise & BYU are going to do to get out of this non-revenue producing quagmire. Those 3 schools will not stay in the “all is hunky dory just fine” at the G5 level forever. 

GMG!

[Mean Green Matt]

10 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Financially it probably keeps us from going down another level or moving the deck chairs around to merely be in another meaningless G5 conference.  

👀 Look, I’m realistic enough to know there is no place for our favorite school at the P5 level now, but the journey of a thousand miles begins with that important 1’st step & our powers that be should not allow a school with our (amazing) constituency in the population center we are in to spend the next 30 years treading water at the G5 level.   

Begin a serious study now with Smatresk, the BOR’s, Wren Baker & the MegaDonors to see what other schools like Houston, Boise & BYU are going to do to get out of this non-revenue producing quagmire. Those 3 schools will not stay in the “all is hunky dory just fine” at the G5 level forever. 

GMG!

Where do you suggest our other sports go? The Southland?

[CMJ]

Going independent will kill our athletics program.  We'll probably have to drop to Southland level for everything other than football because I seriously doubt CUSA will let us stay around.

[PlummMeanGreen]

23 hours ago, CMJ said:

Going independent will kill our athletics program.  We'll probably have to drop to Southland level for everything other than football because I seriously doubt CUSA will let us stay around.

Oh yes, like being Independent killed our program in 1975 when we beat a "winning" SEC football team who would have gone to a bowl game had there been umpteen number bowls as now? 

OldDenton group think gets all their regressive thinking panties in a wad when the name & the success of Hayden Fry is mentioned.  It's almost laughable.  Notice how the only winning (and above .500 in career wins) coach at UNT in modern times still hasn't had anything named after him up in good ol' Denton Town?  We honor losing records in Denton.  No other school in the NCAA does.

Fact still remains that 4 of Fry's 6 teams would have gone bowling with the number of bowls we have today of which most are to appease G5 schools of which one of its school has a top performing  QB that just got snubbed by the Davey O'Brien selection committee.  Hmmm? G5? 

Below are pics that represent the future of minor league sports in a major league sports market like DFW.  Enjoy & relish, GreenFlakes.   

Below pics are La Graves Field, Fort Worth, Texas, when the revival of Minor League sports in the Metroplex bit the big one. Note:  Nice tree at home plate, eh?

Edited November 21, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

[CMJ]

41 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Oh yes, like being Independent killed our program in 1975 when we beat a "winning" SEC football team who would have gone to a bowl game had there been umpteen number bowls as now? 

OldDenton group think gets all their regressive thinking panties in a wad when the name & the success of Hayden Fry is mentioned.  It's almost laughable.  Notice how the only winning (and above .500 in career wins) coach at UNT in modern times still hasn't had anything named after him up in good ol' Denton Town?  We honor losing records in Denton.  No other school in the NCAA does.

Fact still remains that 4 of Fry's 6 teams would have gone bowling with the number of bowls we have today of which most are to appease G5 schools of which one of its school has a top performing  QB that just got snubbed by the Davey O'Brien selection committee.  Hmmm? G5? 

Below are pics that represent the future of minor league sports in a major league sports market like DFW.  Enjoy & relish, GreenFlakes.   

Below pics are La Graves Field, Fort Worth, Texas, when the revival of Minor League sports in the Metroplex bit the big one. Note:  Nice tree at home plate, eh?

Going independent did end up hurting all our sports though.  Independence may have looked good in 1975, but it arguably led us moving down to the Southland a few years after he left, which hurt us for over a decade.  That wouldn't have happened if we hadn't gone gone Indy. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by CMJ

[Cerebus]

19 minutes ago, CMJ said:

Going independent did end up hurting all our sports though.  Independence may have looked good in 1975, but it arguably led us moving down to the Southland a few years after he left, which hurt us for over a decade.  That wouldn't have happened if we hadn't gone gone Indy. 

If we hadn't gone Indy we more than likely would at least be in the AAC with the other MVC schools.

[CMJ]

5 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

If we hadn't gone Indy we more than likely would at least be in the AAC with the other MVC schools.

Yeah, didn't quite a few of them end up in the old Metro 8, which begat the Original CUSA?  I believe that was Louisville's path.  I think the mistake was, we went Indy in everything (like Notre Dame used to...they don't even do that anymore).  Some of the other schools that have gone Indy have at least had okay landing grounds for their other sports.  Independence robbed arguably our best basketball teams a chance of playing in the NCAA or NIT as well.

[Mean Green Matt]

1 hour ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Oh yes, like being Independent killed our program in 1975 when we beat a "winning" SEC football team who would have gone to a bowl game had there been umpteen number bowls as now? 

OldDenton group think gets all their regressive thinking panties in a wad when the name & the success of Hayden Fry is mentioned.  It's almost laughable.  Notice how the only winning (and above .500 in career wins) coach at UNT in modern times still hasn't had anything named after him up in good ol' Denton Town?  We honor losing records in Denton.  No other school in the NCAA does.

Fact still remains that 4 of Fry's 6 teams would have gone bowling with the number of bowls we have today of which most are to appease G5 schools of which one of its school has a top performing  QB that just got snubbed by the Davey O'Brien selection committee.  Hmmm? G5? 

Below are pics that represent the future of minor league sports in a major league sports market like DFW.  Enjoy & relish, GreenFlakes.   

Below pics are La Graves Field, Fort Worth, Texas, when the revival of Minor League sports in the Metroplex bit the big one. Note:  Nice tree at home plate, eh?

Couple thoughts.

1) We have to earn relevance. That’s how the world works. Going Indy and declaring ourselves a P5 is like starting your own LLC, making yourself CEO, and then expecting Bill Gates to take your call. 

2) If the best argument that going Indy worked well the first time is because “4 of Frys 6 teams would have gone bowling with the number of bowls we have today” or that we beat a Tennessee team that would have gone bowling (if all these bowls existed then) that’s far from a portrait of relevance. 

2a) CMJ is 100% right. Horrendous affiliation decisions in the 70s and 80s set this program back 20 years. Doing that again will seal our fate for good.