MIke Leach 2.0

[untjim1995]

I have said all along that SL is Mike Leach 2.0. A guy who knows offense, very little interest in defense, wins games that nobody thinks you will, lose games nobody thinks you will. We have problems with physical defenses and problems when momentum changes. We all saw this with those Tech teams under the Pirate for years. Everyone who likes Leach thinks his 2008 season was the norm, but nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, his normal results got you anywhere from 7-9 wins, which always included 4 OOC patsies.

 

[TheReal_jayD]

5 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I have said all along that SL is Mike Leach 2.0. A guy who knows offense, very little interest in defense, wins games that nobody thinks you will, lose games nobody thinks you will. We have problems with physical defenses and problems when momentum changes. We all saw this with those Tech teams under the Pirate for years. Everyone who likes Leach thinks his 2008 season was the norm, but nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, his normal results got you anywhere from 7-9 wins, which always included 4 OOC patsies.

 

Texas Tech Red Raiders (Big 12 Conference) (2000–2009)
2000	Texas Tech	7–6	3–5	4th (South)	L Galleryfurniture.com
2001	Texas Tech	7–5	4–4	T–3rd (South)	L Alamo
2002	Texas Tech	9–5	5–3	T–2nd (South)	W Tangerine
2003	Texas Tech	8–5	4–4	4th (South)	W Houston
2004	Texas Tech	8–4	5–3	T–3rd (South)	W Holiday	17	18
2005	Texas Tech	9–3	6–2	T–2nd (South)	L Cotton	19	20
2006	Texas Tech	8–5	4–4	4th (South)	W Insight
2007	Texas Tech	9–4	4–4	T–3rd (South)	W Gator	23	22
2008	Texas Tech	11–2	7–1	T–1st (South)	L Cotton	12	12
2009	Texas Tech	8–4	5–3	3rd (South)	Alamo*	23	21
Texas Tech:		84–43	47–33	*Did not coach bowl game.     I would take this kind of 10 year run at North Texas

[97and03]

I would definitely take that record. 

Also I am not sure about how this year proves that SL doesn’t care about defense. 

[NT93]

Texas Tech would love to have him and his 7-9 wins a year back.

[untjim1995]

6 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Texas Tech Red Raiders (Big 12 Conference) (2000–2009)
2000	Texas Tech	7–6	3–5	4th (South)	L Galleryfurniture.com
2001	Texas Tech	7–5	4–4	T–3rd (South)	L Alamo
2002	Texas Tech	9–5	5–3	T–2nd (South)	W Tangerine
2003	Texas Tech	8–5	4–4	4th (South)	W Houston
2004	Texas Tech	8–4	5–3	T–3rd (South)	W Holiday	17	18
2005	Texas Tech	9–3	6–2	T–2nd (South)	L Cotton	19	20
2006	Texas Tech	8–5	4–4	4th (South)	W Insight
2007	Texas Tech	9–4	4–4	T–3rd (South)	W Gator	23	22
2008	Texas Tech	11–2	7–1	T–1st (South)	L Cotton	12	12
2009	Texas Tech	8–4	5–3	3rd (South)	Alamo*	23	21
Texas Tech:		84–43	47–33	*Did not coach bowl game.     I would take this kind of 10 year run at North Texas

Thank you for posting this...

[NorthTexan95]

These teams do look a lot like those Tech teams but how many games would Leach have won in CUSA where he could have had top recruiting classes?  I think you would have seen many more 10+ winning season.  

Seth's first two teams over achieved and he has the top CUSA recruiting class coming in.  Right now we can't conclude what heights Seth can take this team. 

[untjim1995]

5 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

I would definitely take that record. 

Also I am not sure about how this year proves that SL doesn’t care about defense. 

I would, too, take it here. But apparently, after the loss this past weekend dropped us to 7-3, we have been bombarded with posts like we aren't deserving of a decent crowd or following our team to another town.

 

[untjim1995]

Just now, NorthTexan95 said:

These teams do look a lot like those Tech teams but how many games would Leach have won in CUSA where he could have had top recruiting classes?  I think you would have seen many more 10+ winning season.  

Seth's first two teams over achieved and he has the top CUSA recruiting class coming in.  Right now we can't conclude what heights Seth can take this team. 

He would have done about the same, because his playbook was always stopped by physical defenses (La Tech and UAB now in CUSA) and his teams always lost games they shouldn't while winning games they weren't supposed to. 

I've seen SL coach now for 3 years--physical defenses mess with us in a big way. We can't stop teams with big time offenses (see our losses last year except for Iowa). We have won games at Army in 2016, at La Tech in 2017, and at Arky in 2018, but have lost at UTEP badly in 2016, got smoked in our bowl game by Troy in 2017, and just lost to a team that was 2-7 before this weekend. All I'm saying is that this was Texas tech for almost the entirety under Leach's guidance. SL is of that coaching tree and looks very similar, IMO.

[NorthTexan95]

13 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

He would have done about the same, because his playbook was always stopped by physical defenses (La Tech and UAB now in CUSA) and his teams always lost games they shouldn't while winning games they weren't supposed to. 

I've seen SL coach now for 3 years--physical defenses mess with us in a big way. We can't stop teams with big time offenses (see our losses last year except for Iowa). We have won games at Army in 2016, at La Tech in 2017, and at Arky in 2018, but have lost at UTEP badly in 2016, got smoked in our bowl game by Troy in 2017, and just lost to a team that was 2-7 before this weekend. All I'm saying is that this was Texas tech for almost the entirety under Leach's guidance. SL is of that coaching tree and looks very similar, IMO.

It does look similar but there are major difference.  Even the style of offense has a major difference because Seth has a much higher priority on running the ball than Leach ever did.  Our issues at running back and offensive line are a major part of the issue this season.  

Throw out 2016.  Seth was five games with a team that was one the year before in with true freshman at quarterback and completely different offensive system.  Last year we won 9 games and the West Division title which no one realistically saw coming.  

You bring up a great point with our issues with physical defenses.  That's always going to be an issue with this type of offense even if we had five quality starters.  That's probably why Seth likes to lean heavily on the running game.  

Go through Seth's three seasons (actually less than three seasons) and find another game that we lost when we certainly should have won.  I think we blew the game against La Tech but that was no gimmie at all.   Coming into this season, I believe Seth was 7-1 in games decided by 8 points or less but is 1-3 this season. 

Does this look like Leach's Tech history?  Yeah but it's been less than three years.  Fortunately, Seth doesn't have to compete against Texas, Oklahoma, Ok State, TCU, etc.  Texas Tech was always at a disadvantage in talent.  Seth has the opportunity to have the best talent in CUSA.  That can make all the difference in the world. 

[meangreenJW]

5 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I would, too, take it here. But apparently, after the loss this past weekend dropped us to 7-3, we have been bombarded with posts like we aren't deserving of a decent crowd or following our team to another town.

 

Agree. If we could have a coach who over 5-10 years averaged 8-4 regular season I'd take it, especially given our 50 year history of 4-8. I thought the loss to ODU was really bad. Our worst under Seth but the overreaction on this board is a bit much. I stayed away for a couple days.

[NorthTexan95]

7 minutes ago, meangreenJW said:

Agree. If we could have a coach who over 5-10 years averaged 8-4 regular season I'd take it, especially given our 50 year history of 4-8. I thought the loss to ODU was really bad. Our worst under Seth but the overreaction on this board is a bit much. I stayed away for a couple days.

Hmmmm .... 

[golfingomez]

sounds like we are improving... last year people were saying SL was Todd Dodge 2.0...

[greenminer]

?

 

 

[Mo Green]

1 hour ago, meangreenJW said:

Agree. If we could have a coach who over 5-10 years averaged 8-4 regular season I'd take it, especially given our 50 year history of 4-8. I thought the loss to ODU was really bad. Our worst under Seth but the overreaction on this board is a bit much. I stayed away for a couple days.

Seth is still a very new head coach. He's learning and the second half flops he will need to work this wrinkles out. All this depressing whining really gets old.

what are you going to do next year when the heart of the defense is gone? 

No one is saying much about the three and out play calling from the OC? Passing is working ,try to run then we lose because we can't make a yard in several games now. Hay look at the good in all this our coaches will be around next fall!

[TheReal_jayD]

30 minutes ago, greenminer said:

?

 

 

Landed a p5 grad transfer offensive tackle. #LightTheTower

[MeanGreenTexan]

38 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Landed a p5 grad transfer offensive tackle. #LightTheTower

Meanwhile, the guys who are here that Littrell just declared inferior to this guy be like:

[TheReal_jayD]

11 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Meanwhile, the guys who are here that Littrell just declared inferior to this guy be like:

The 2 starting tackles are graduating. 

[CaribbeanGreen]

95 is right on. Tech always plays with a talent deficit in 75% of its conference games. They'll never consistently recruit with the top  teams in their conference, which isn't a barrier Littrell has here. Apples and oranges. 

And yeah, count me in the group that thinks Mike Leach is a hell of a coach. Anyone see how Wazzu is doing this year?

Edited November 12, 2018 by CaribbeanGreen

[meangreenJW]

10 hours ago, NorthTexan95 said:

Hmmmm .... 

I should have offered more detail. I'm basing that comment on this site https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/north-texas/index.html.

We won 235 games in the 51 seasons prior to Seth Littrell. That's an average of 4.6 wins per year.

[NorthTexan95]

5 hours ago, meangreenJW said:

I should have offered more detail. I'm basing that comment on this site https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/north-texas/index.html.

We won 235 games in the 51 seasons prior to Seth Littrell. That's an average of 4.6 wins per year.

Geez ... those RV years really hurt.  

[Cerebus]

16 hours ago, CaribbeanGreen said:

Tech always plays with a talent deficit in 75% of its conference games. They'll never consistently recruit with the top  teams in their conference, which isn't a barrier Littrell has here. Apples and oranges. 

Have you looked at our recruit rankings?  Tech does better in the B12 than we do in CUSA.

Landing this years class would be a huge upgrade.  

[meangreen08]

23 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

I have said all along that SL is Mike Leach 2.0. A guy who knows offense, very little interest in defense, wins games that nobody thinks you will, lose games nobody thinks you will. We have problems with physical defenses and problems when momentum changes. We all saw this with those Tech teams under the Pirate for years. Everyone who likes Leach thinks his 2008 season was the norm, but nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, his normal results got you anywhere from 7-9 wins, which always included 4 OOC patsies.

 

I'd be happy to take Mike Leach 2.0 with 7-9 wins if that's the case.

Have you watched UNT football, like, ever?

 

 

[untjim1995]

Just now, meangreen08 said:

I'd be happy to take Mike Leach 2.0 with 7-9 wins if that's the case.

Have you watched UNT football, like, ever?

 

 

You're reading me wrong. I think that's awesome for us. It was posted as a way to call out the idiots who think we should go undefeated or that they are not going to watch us play anymore because we lost to ODU last weekend. The Leach comparison is not a bad one, at all. He's a great coach--but Tech fans got spoiled into believing they should have more than they got under Leach. If we go with 7-9 wins again next year, that would be awesome to me--but there are obviously posters here that believe that my expectations should be higher. All I'm saying is that Mike Leach 2.0 isn't bad--but its going to have the characteristics I listed originally.

[meangreen08]

2 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

You're reading me wrong. I think that's awesome for us. It was posted as a way to call out the idiots who think we should go undefeated or that they are not going to watch us play anymore because we lost to ODU last weekend. The Leach comparison is not a bad one, at all. He's a great coach--but Tech fans got spoiled into believing they should have more than they got under Leach. If we go with 7-9 wins again next year, that would be awesome to me--but there are obviously posters here that believe that my expectations should be higher. All I'm saying is that Mike Leach 2.0 isn't bad--but its going to have the characteristics I listed originally.

Right,
but your comparing a G5 conf to a P5 conf to which at that time was one of the most dominant conferences in football with 2-3 teams playing for a national championship every year. ( 2 alone in the south division).  
tech had those 7-9 seasons for a reason. because they simply had inferior talent compared to the powerhouses in that conf. 
Leach did an amazing job with the talent he had. 

You could apply the argument "coach X loses games they shouldn't lose just like coach Y" to just about 99% of the coaches in FBS.

that's not a good comparison.  

[untjim1995]

4 minutes ago, meangreen08 said:

Right,
but your comparing a G5 conf to a P5 conf to which at that time was one of the most dominant conferences in football with 2-3 teams playing for a national championship every year. ( 2 alone in the south division).  
tech had those 7-9 seasons for a reason. because they simply had inferior talent compared to the powerhouses in that conf. 
Leach did an amazing job with the talent he had. 

You could apply the argument "coach X loses games they shouldn't lose just like coach Y" to just about 99% of the coaches in FBS.

that's not a good comparison.  

Our talent level RIGHT NOW is not better than La Tech or UAB or FAU. We might be getting better, but that is no different than the old Big 12 South with Tech being less talented than OU and UT back then, Hell, A&M always had better classes than Tech did, but Leach's genius always killed them. 

That's a reality.