Is 8 Wins/Year Littrell's Ceiling Here?

Rudy · October 24, 2018

Did I REALLY just read a post that said the difference in 2016 and 2018 is "miniscule"?

OH. MY. LORD.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

37 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Did I REALLY just read a post that said the difference in 2016 and 2018 is "miniscule"?

OH. MY. LORD.

Take a snip of a post and make it your own and then all of sudden in your mind it's whatever post you want it to be.

Standings wise, we're sitting pat. Though that will probably change but as of today it's the same.

2016 - 4-4 4th place in the West.

2018 - 2-2 4th place in the West.

Rudy · October 25, 2018

You have to look at the totality of the circumstances. Just because we are in the same place in the division is only one piece. Our record is better, we are getting better recruits, we beat a name P5 school, we had two near sellouts, received GOOD national publicity, and received top 25 votes.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Rudy

Censored by Laurie · October 25, 2018

21 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Take a snip of a post and make it your own and then all of sudden in your mind it's whatever post you want it to be.

Standings wise, we're sitting pat. Though that will probably change but as of today it's the same.

2016 - 4-4 4th place in the West.

2018 - 2-2 4th place in the West.

so what you're saying is you were taken out of context?

but then the entire foundation of your argument are numbers...taken totally out of context.

you're so fun.

@untjim1995 , I should still have that note-card laying around somewhere.

greenminer · October 25, 2018

35 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Take a snip of a post and make it your own and then all of sudden in your mind it's whatever post you want it to be.

Standings wise, we're sitting pat. Though that will probably change but as of today it's the same.

2016 - 4-4 4th place in the West.

2018 - 2-2 4th place in the West.

Irrefutable math.
No room for sports circumstance or context.

You're terrible at this. You'd be a horrible boss anywhere, of anyone. But I'm sure you're fun to agree with in the company break room.

Edited October 25, 2018 by greenminer

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

10 hours ago, greenminer said:

Irrefutable math.
No room for sports circumstance or context.

You're terrible at this. You'd be a horrible boss anywhere, of anyone. But I'm sure you're fun to agree with in the company break room.

11 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

so what you're saying is you were taken out of context?

but then the entire foundation of your argument are numbers...taken totally out of context.

you're so fun.

@untjim1995 , I should still have that note-card laying around somewhere.

11 hours ago, Rudy said:

You have to look at the totality of the circumstances. Just because we are in the same place in the division is only one piece. Our record is better, we are getting better recruits, we beat a name P5 school, we had two near sellouts, received GOOD national publicity, and received top 25 votes.

And we won't be playing on championship Saturday all the same.

The years are different. Instead of 4th place in the West in 2016...OK, OK, I get it...we'll be 3rd. Yay us.

Silver lining is the elusive 10 wins.

Rudy · October 25, 2018

3/4 of the country won't be playing on championship Saturday.

MGNation92 · October 25, 2018

1 hour ago, Rudy said:

3/4 of the country won't be playing on championship Saturday.

Don't you love being average?

Boy I know I do!

The goal every year should be to win a conference championship. If we settle for any lower expectations, then we deserve another coach like Dodge.

"You can't soar with the eagles if you hang out with the chickens" - Slim Thug - Seth Littrell

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

15 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Don't you love being average?

Boy I know I do!

The goal every year should be to win a conference championship. If we settle for any lower expectations, then we deserve another coach like Dodge.

"You can't soar with the eagles if you hang out with the chickens" - Slim Thug - Seth Littrell

The problem is, that's everyone else's goal too.
So what are we supposed to do if we fall short of that goal? Pack it in?
Disappointment is fine, but scorched-earth is not. You have to observe trending, and we're obviously trending upward, so there is still much to be excited about. Losing the West division does not mean we're at Dodge level.

Question for those who are so beaten by "not contending" for the conference championship (which we were/are)... We've lost 2 games in the first 4... Would there be a difference, or would we have been "contending" if we played & lost the UAB game as the last game of the season? Is it just the timing of it? ... being eliminated early instead of late?

MGNation92 · October 25, 2018

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The problem is, that's everyone else's goal too.
So what are we supposed to do if we fall short of that goal? Pack it in?
Disappointment is fine, but scorched-earth is not. You have to observe trending, and we're obviously trending upward, so there is still much to be excited about. Losing the West division does not mean we're at Dodge level.

Question for those who are so beaten by "not contending" for the conference championship (which we were/are)... We've lost 2 games in the first 4... Would there be a difference, or would we have been "contending" if we played & lost the UAB game as the last game of the season? Is it just the timing of it? ... being eliminated early instead of late?

When did I ever say scorched earth?

I said Littrell isn't elite. Consistent? Sure, but he's more Skip Holtz than Tom Herman(in terms of G5 coaches), which, in a lot of cases is okay. That was my original question I posed. Are we good with 8-4 every year? Would I much rather go 0-4 to start the season then rattle off 8 straight and win a conference championship? 9/10 times yes.

Doesn't matter if it's mid season, or end of season, I want to be a contender PERIOD. That being said, I would much rather be in the position of needing one win the final game and losing than being out of the race midseason.

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

6 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

When did I ever say scorched earth?

I said Littrell isn't elite. Consistent? Sure, but he's more Skip Holtz than Tom Herman(in terms of G5 coaches), which, in a lot of cases is okay. That was my original question I posed. Are we good with 8-4 every year? Would I much rather go 0-4 to start the season then rattle off 8 straight and win a conference championship? 9/10 times yes.

Doesn't matter if it's mid season, or end of season, I want to be a contender PERIOD. That being said, I would much rather be in the position of needing one win the final game and losing than being out of the race midseason.

The mention of Dodge equates scorched earth. That is monumental failure. We "deserved" Dodge when we had him due to the lack of investment by NT leadership. That has changed in a very big way.

11-2 is still very much in the cards for this team, and that is more success than we've ever had before. EVER.

And as for the last point... so you're saying you're upset with the schedule? Because we just happened to run into the other two "contenders" in our division early in the season rather than late? If we finish out 4-0, we're in the same spot we would be if we were to start 6-0 in conference, then dropped the last 2.

MGNation92 · October 25, 2018

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The mention of Dodge equates scorched earth. That is monumental failure. We "deserved" Dodge when we had him due to the lack of investment by NT leadership. That has changed in a very big way.

11-2 is still very much in the cards for this team, and that is more success than we've ever had before. EVER.

And as for the last point... so you're saying you're upset with the schedule? Because we just happened to run into the other two "contenders" in our division early in the season rather than late? If we finish out 4-0, we're in the same spot we would be if we were to start 6-0 in conference, then dropped the last 2.

I would much rather be 6-2 with wins over the other two contenders in the west. That would mean we're at worst, second in the west, with a much better chance of still making the conference championship.

Instead we're banking on going 4-0 and hoping UAB drops 3 and LaTech drops 2 to be in the picture for the conference.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

Or just not lose to blatant lesser teams. We were the better team in our losses. The opposition had to scratch and claw while we simultaneously shit the offensive bed for the games to even be competitive.The way the games played out dictates we were the superior team. The verbiage needs to be we should be 8-0, not could be 8-0.

Seeing double digits in the win column is still a goal I'd like to see happen.

And I've only been following this program since 2012, but this is by far the easiest schedule I've seen. Combined opponent win % could be in the high .300's or low .400's by season's end.

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

16 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I would much rather be 6-2 with wins over the other two contenders in the west. That would mean we're at worst, second in the west, with a much better chance of still making the conference championship.

Instead we're banking on going 4-0 and hoping UAB drops 3 and LaTech drops 2 to be in the picture for the conference.

I don't think I'm clearly explaining.

UNT's schedule is magically changed. We now have UAB & LATech for games 11 & 12. NT goes 6-0 through the first 6, then drop the last 2 against UAB & LATech. Either way, we lose to those two teams. You're saying you'd be happier with that result because we "contended" longer?

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

8 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Or just not lose to blatant lesser teams. We were the better team in our losses. The opposition had to scratch and claw while we simultaneously shit the offensive bed for the games to even be competitive.The way the games played out dictates we were the superior team. The verbiage needs to be we should be 8-0, not could be 8-0.

Seeing double digits in the win column is still a goal I'd like to see happen.

And I've only been following this program since 2012, but this is by far the easiest schedule I've seen. Combined opponent win % could be in the high .300's or low .400's by season's end.

We were the better team in one of the losses. Not UAB. Sorry.

UNTLifer · October 25, 2018

We were, and are, a better team than UAB.

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

17 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

We were, and are, a better team than UAB.

That's not what I saw. At least, not on that day.

NT93 · October 25, 2018

19 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't think I'm clearly explaining.

UNT's schedule is magically changed. We now have UAB & LATech for games 11 & 12. NT goes 6-0 through the first 6, then drop the last 2 against UAB & LATech. Either way, we lose to those two teams. You're saying you'd be happier with that result because we "contended" longer?

Yes, you are.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

24 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

We were the better team in one of the losses. Not UAB. Sorry.

Maybe not.

But if we could put both teams on a neutral field 10 Saturday's in a row and had all 6 sides of the ball playing their "A" game for all 10 games I find it hard to believe UNT doesn't win at least 6 or 7 of those.

I get it though, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

NT93 · October 25, 2018

I bet Alabama has a few fans like we do who think every other fan should stop settling for mediocrity because they couldn't even win the SEC West last year.

MGNation92 · October 25, 2018

36 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't think I'm clearly explaining.

UNT's schedule is magically changed. We now have UAB & LATech for games 11 & 12. NT goes 6-0 through the first 6, then drop the last 2 against UAB & LATech. Either way, we lose to those two teams. You're saying you'd be happier with that result because we "contended" longer?

Absolutely. That would mean we were 10-0 going into those two games, probably ranked in the top 25, and already guaranteed a 10 win season. Disappointing sure, but not as disappointing as "We might be able to hit 10 wins and have no shot at a conference championship" halfway through the season.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

7 minutes ago, NT93 said:

I bet Alabama has a few fans like we do who think every other fan should stop settling for mediocrity because they couldn't even win the SEC West last year.

There is no response to be had for this.

UNTcrazy727 · October 25, 2018

5 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Absolutely. That would mean we were 10-0 going into those two games, probably ranked in the top 25, and already guaranteed a 10 win season. Disappointing sure, but not as disappointing as "We might be able to hit 10 wins and have no shot at a conference championship" halfway through the season.

So you're mad at our schedule? And I'm sorry, but losing the last two games of the year and missing the championship game after starting 10-0 would be WAY more disappointing than the route we took this year.

If we win out this year and go 11-2, its a big step forward for the program and certainly would make 2018 a better year than 2017.

NT93 · October 25, 2018

1 minute ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

There is no response to be had for this.

I guess you missed the sarcasm. I'm trying to make a point to you guys who are so torn up about not winning our conference.

greenminer · October 25, 2018

Everyone will hold SL responsible when he fails. No one says fire him after this season. Everyone is eyeballing those recruits.

Not sure where all this back forth is supposed to be going. Just seems like a lot of spitting and anger.

If you want to have fun, take away all the spit and anger and just tell us what coaching changes you would make. OL coach? OC?

EDIT: I'm pretty happy with where we are at. The offensive play calling can be very questionable , and I wonder why we struggle mightily to protect Fine (coaching or recruiting?). But I've been watching the game long enough to see people split hairs over even the greatest coaches. There's no such thing as a perfect game from first to final snaps.

We can nitpick a lot of things, but this is the best staff and AD we've had - by a long shot - as long as I've been Mean Green. And as long as this system continues to hover around 10 wins and compete for titles, I'm happy.

It really boils down to, do you think missing out on the division for ONE SEASON means you make tweaks or see through the same staff one or two more seasons?

Edited October 25, 2018 by greenminer