Is 8 Wins/Year Littrell's Ceiling Here?

MGNation92 · October 25, 2018

3 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

So you're mad at our schedule? And I'm sorry, but losing the last two games of the year and missing the championship game after starting 10-0 would be WAY more disappointing than the route we took this year.

If we win out this year and go 11-2, its a big step forward for the program and certainly would make 2018 a better year than 2017.

I didn't say I was mad at the schedule. I said it's a lot more disappointing to be staring down a bunch of if's, rather than knowing we hit 10 wins, probably ranked, and then losing two games.

If the end result is the same(11-2), I'd take the two losses at the end 10/10 times.

Big Z · October 25, 2018

2 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

Don't you love being average?

Boy I know I do!

The goal every year should be to win a conference championship. If we settle for any lower expectations, then we deserve another coach like Dodge.

"You can't soar with the eagles if you hang out with the chickens" - Slim Thug - Seth Littrell

He’s right people

The players that the staff recruited want to win championship and don’t really look at “just being in a bowl game” as the ultimate goal. The culture of the team has completely changed to where they don’t really get all that excited about being bowl eligible. Heck we have fans on here already talking about the Servepro bowl game because it’s close to home and you won’t have to spend much money traveling. F that - On BTG, the team didn’t even celebrate after the game knowing they just been eligible, I freakin like that! Because frankly I don’t want our low expectations as just being in a bowl game as our super bowl to attract the wrong recruits who want to do everything half ass.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Big Z

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

8 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Everyone will hold SL responsible when he fails. No one says fire him after this season. Everyone is eyeballing those recruits.

Not sure where all this back forth is supposed to be going. Just seems like a lot of spitting and anger.

If you want to have fun, take away all the spit and anger and just tell us what coaching changes you would make. OL coach? OC?

I don't want to see anyone fired for continuity sake. I would like to see more reserves playing far more at all positions once a comfortable lead is established from here on out. I would like to see SL mentor GH more. We've been watching awful situational play calling for 3 years now. I think SL needs to dictate that a little more and put his hands on it more. Honestly, I personally think he already is though and the result is what it is. But if he isn't, he definitely needs to be.

We desperately need to see more secondary reserves out there. Maybe even throughout games sparingly as well and all game with a lead. We have 0 clue what we have behind MF either. Would like to see more reps from any of the qbs not named Shanbour. The time to really groom them is now, not Spring of 2020.

UNTcrazy727 · October 25, 2018

6 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I didn't say I was mad at the schedule. I said it's a lot more disappointing to be staring down a bunch of if's, rather than knowing we hit 10 wins, probably ranked, and then losing two games.

If the end result is the same(11-2), I'd take the two losses at the end 10/10 times.

I think you're underestimating the meltdown that would occur in our fan base if we lost two games after that kind of start. Plus, it wouldn't exactly end the season on a good note. One could argue it would be better to go into the off-season riding high on a 5 game winning streak. I still can't shake the taste of the crap sandwich we had to eat at the end of last season...

That said, this is an incredibly dumb argument.

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

1 hour ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

I think you're underestimating the meltdown that would occur in our fan base if we lost two games after that kind of start. Plus, it wouldn't exactly end the season on a good note. One could argue it would be better to go into the off-season riding high on a 5 game winning streak. I still can't shake the taste of the crap sandwich we had to eat at the end of last season...

That said, this is an incredibly dumb argument.

With the expectations built up after only 4 straight wins, then losing to LATech, I can't imagine what it would have been like after 10 straight wins.

MGNation92 · October 25, 2018

1 hour ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

I think you're underestimating the meltdown that would occur in our fan base if we lost two games after that kind of start. Plus, it wouldn't exactly end the season on a good note. One could argue it would be better to go into the off-season riding high on a 5 game winning streak. I still can't shake the taste of the crap sandwich we had to eat at the end of last season...

That said, this is an incredibly dumb argument.

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

With the expectations built up after only 4 straight wins, then losing to LATech, I can't imagine what it would have been like after 10 straight wins.

Y'all are right.

I'm sure Littrell will rip off 3 mid season losses every year to temper fan expectations.

Because that's the goal every season right? Tempering fan expectations. Can't get too high! Otherwise the crash will just be worse, so let's pepper in a few losses here and there to make sure we're grounded.

Win a conference championship. Go Undefeated. Win your bowl game. Every. Single. Year.

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

Just now, MGNation92 said:

Y'all are right.

I'm sure Littrell will rip off 3 mid season losses every year to temper fan expectations.

Because that's the goal every season right? Tempering fan expectations. Can't get too high! Otherwise the crash will just be worse, so let's pepper in a few losses here and there to make sure we're grounded.

Win a conference championship. Go Undefeated. Win your bowl game. Every. Single. Year.

As a FAN, these are your expectations? I expect to see you donning "roll tide" gear in the very near future because you'll be constantly let down by any other team. Fans of a team that was 1-11 less than 3 years ago need to have tempered expectations, yes.

People need to remove themselves from the lockerroom. You do not play for the Mean Green. The players' goals/expectations are not the same as the fans'... unless you're Alabama.

That also goes for those who say "take it one game at a time..." when we're talking about bowl games on gmg.com after 4 wins. We're fans. We're not players. The players need to have the "win this week" mentality... not us.

MGNation92 · October 25, 2018

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

As a FAN, these are your expectations? I expect to see you donning "roll tide" gear in the very near future because you'll be constantly let down by any other team. Fans of a team that was 1-11 less than 3 years ago need to have tempered expectations, yes.

People need to remove themselves from the lockerroom. You do not play for the Mean Green. The players' goals/expectations are not the same as the fans'... unless you're Alabama.

That also goes for those who say "take it one game at a time..." when we're talking about bowl games on gmg.com after 4 wins. We're fans. We're not players. The players need to have the "win this week" mentality... not us.

I would never do such a thing. Are my expectations realistic? Probably not. Am I disappointed when we don't do what we're capable of? Absolutely. Am I going to apologize for wanting the absolute best? Absolutely not.

If we went 7-6 every year, I'd be happy about winning bowl games, but disappointed we didn't do more.

If we went 10-4(8-0 in conference) every year, I'd be happy about winning a conference championship and a bowl game, but disappointed be didn't do more.

If we went 14-0(or more) every year, I'd be happy about going undefeated, winning a conference championship, and winning a bowl game.

My expectation is one or more of those things happen every year. Seth Littrell has done none, and while we may be "trending up", my expectations remain the same if we were 0-12 or 12-0.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

15 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I would never do such a thing. Are my expectations realistic? Probably not. Am I disappointed when we don't do what we're capable of? Absolutely. Am I going to apologize for wanting the absolute best? Absolutely not.

If we went 7-6 every year, I'd be happy about winning bowl games, but disappointed we didn't do more.

If we went 10-4(8-0 in conference) every year, I'd be happy about winning a conference championship and a bowl game, but disappointed be didn't do more.

If we went 14-0(or more) every year, I'd be happy about going undefeated, winning a conference championship, and winning a bowl game.

My expectation is one or more of those things happen every year. Seth Littrell has done none, and while we may be "trending up", my expectations remain the same if we were 0-12 or 12-0.

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

27 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I would never do such a thing. Are my expectations realistic? Probably not. Am I disappointed when we don't do what we're capable of? Absolutely. Am I going to apologize for wanting the absolute best? Absolutely not.

If we went 7-6 every year, I'd be happy about winning bowl games, but disappointed we didn't do more.

If we went 10-4(8-0 in conference) every year, I'd be happy about winning a conference championship and a bowl game, but disappointed be didn't do more.

If we went 14-0(or more) every year, I'd be happy about going undefeated, winning a conference championship, and winning a bowl game.

My expectation is one or more of those things happen every year. Seth Littrell has done none, and while we may be "trending up", my expectations remain the same if we were 0-12 or 12-0.

This makes zero sense. I think maybe you're confusing "expectations" with "hopes".
You mean to tell me that if I dug up an old thread from 2016, the year Littrell arrived after a disasterous 1-11 year, I'd see you expected the team to win 12 games?

EDIT:
Heck, here is your expectation for THIS SEASON:

Quote

On 8/21/2018 at 9:34 AM, MGNation92 said:

I think 9-4 with a Bowl win. Miss out on the Championship game.

Edited October 25, 2018 by MeanGreenTexan

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

28 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

As a FAN, these are your expectations? I expect to see you donning "roll tide" gear in the very near future because you'll be constantly let down by any other team. Fans of a team that was 1-11 less than 3 years ago need to have tempered expectations, yes.

People need to remove themselves from the lockerroom. You do not play for the Mean Green. The players' goals/expectations are not the same as the fans'... unless you're Alabama.

That also goes for those who say "take it one game at a time..." when we're talking about bowl games on gmg.com after 4 wins. We're fans. We're not players. The players need to have the "win this week" mentality... not us.

Honest question, how long are we going to rehash the 2015 season? Until 100% of those players are gone? Or just when it's convenient not to?

And just to let it be known, UCF went 0-12 the same year we went 1-11. Another winless season a decade before that. And 3-9's, 4-8's, and 5-7's sprinkled all in between. And when many on here were following the UNT program in the 80's, they were playing .500 football down in DIII.

ipd054 · October 25, 2018

Be careful what you expect. I think Texas would love to have 9-10 wins a year since firing Mac Brown for not winning Every. Single. Year.

Personally if I could get 8 wins a year and a bowl trip Every. Single. Year. With every 3-4 years winning a Conference Championship, I think I would take it. As would every other school in FBS. I would love to have that type of success.

Just for reference the highest winning percentage is NCAA Division I FBS as of the end of the 2017 season is Michigan at .729 (6.83 games per year over the last 1319 games) Boise leads with and average of 8.76 games a year over 605 games.

Here is your top 10

Team	Won	Lost	Tied	Pct.	Years	Total Games	Conference
Michigan	943	340	36	.729	138	1319	Big Ten
Boise State	438	165	2	.726	50	605	Mountain West
Ohio State ¹	898	324	53	.725	128	1275	Big Ten
Notre Dame ¹²	886	324	42	.724	130	1273	Independent
Alabama ²	891	328	43	.723	123	1262	SEC
Oklahoma	884	323	53	.723	123	1260	Big 12
Texas	900	366	33	.705	125	1296	Big 12
USC ³	834	339	54	.702	124	1227	Pac-12
Nebraska	893	380	40	.695	128	1313	Big Ten
Penn State	878	387	41	.688	131	1306	Big Ten

We ar 89th and just above 500

North Texas

507

502

33

.502

102

1041

C-USA

Is 8 games a year a cap. No we hit 9 last year and should hit 9 or 10 this year cap is already blown. But if we consistently hit 8 wins a year for the next 5 years, I for one will enjoy the longest success streak that UNT has ever had. I had higher hopes for this year but if we hit 8 this year it will only be the 4th time in history (66-68, 77-78, and 02-03) UNT has hit 8 two years in a row. We have to go back to 66-68 for the only time we did it 3 times in a row.

As a coach would I set the goal as "Win a conference championship. Go Undefeated. Win your bowl game. Every. Single. Year." Yes!!!

As a fan I have to know that we will not do it Every. Single. Year. Will it suck when we fall short, yes! But it an 8-5 season sucks a heck of a lot less than 1-11!!!!

NCAA W/L source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_win-loss_records

Edited October 25, 2018 by ipd054
Added Source

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

6 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Honest question, how long are we going to rehash the 2015 season? Until 100% of those players are gone? Or just when it's convenient not to?

And just to let it be known, UCF went 0-12 the same year we went 1-11. Another winless season a decade before that. And 3-9's, 4-8's, and 5-7's sprinkled all in between. And when many on here were following the UNT program in the 80's, they were playing .500 football down in DIII.

Oh, I'm not rehashing 2015. It's just a reality. That's the season that directly preceded Littrell's hire. That was his baseline... extremely low.
What was your "expectation"? I think most "expected" 4 wins, and we wound up with 5! Surely no one "expected" 12-0?
The next year, I think most expected 7 wins, and we wound up with 9!
We still have the chance to do better than 9 wins this season, which was the average of people's expectations this year.

Censored by Laurie · October 25, 2018

20 teams make conference championship games. there are 130 FBS teams

20 / 130 = 15%

mathematically (and yes, only mathematically) it's a greater accomplishment to make a conference championship game than to crack the top 25. that we did so last year was an amazing feat...especially considering from where we came from not very long ago...that point can not be under-sold.

I'd also like to point out that the juggernaut we lost to in the championship game last year...the one poised to crack the top 25 and be the next UCF...is up against it to qualify for a bowl game. would anyone swap positions with FAU right now? consistency at this level is rare...and while teams can win quickly with new coaches/players/schemes, its a longer and slower process to build that consistency and there will likely be growing pains.

we're good, not great. there are a number of good teams out there...few great ones. given that we've been awful, I'll take good with continued strides toward great, even if that progress isn't completely linear. doesn't mean I'm not disappointed losing to LaTech or UAB...doesn't mean I wasn't anticipating or expecting better things this year.

but then, I guess some people just wanna bitch and be heard.

Censored by Laurie · October 25, 2018

15 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

This makes zero sense. I think maybe you're confusing "expectations" with "hopes".
You mean to tell me that if I dug up an old thread from 2016, the year Littrell arrived after a disasterous 1-11 year, I'd see you expected the team to win 12 games?

EDIT:
Heck, here is your expectation for THIS SEASON:

this is how one internets.

Cerebus · October 25, 2018

10 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

What was your "expectation"?

Well:

On 6/3/2016 at 12:58 PM, Ben Gooding said:

I think 3-9 is a possibility. But I also think 6-6 is a possibility.

However, it only took him a few months to sour on the SL hire and want him to go to Houston:

On 11/26/2016 at 5:48 PM, Ben Gooding said:

Good. Please take this incompetent offense down to Houston.

MeanGreenTexan · October 25, 2018

1 minute ago, Cerebus said:

Well:

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

On 6/3/2016 at 12:58 PM, Ben Gooding said:

I think 3-9 is a possibility. But I also think 6-6 is a possibility.

Hmm. That doesn't really sound like expectations at all. Sounds more like waffling or hedging.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

3 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Well:

However, it only took him a few months to sour on the SL hire and want him to go to Houston:

The problem with your funny man post is that the predictions in question were mgnations, not mine.

However, the sputtering of this offense apparently hasn't changed from now to then. So, yeah.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Hmm. That doesn't really sound like expectations at all. Sounds more like waffling or hedging.

2016 was a crapshoot in regards to trying to figure out. But no team in this conference should strike fear into a player or coach. It's begging for a dominant program, and it's certainly there for the taking. A lot of very, very weak teams with poor coaches and no facilities. Low hanging fruit to take over this conference if there ever was one.

Cerebus · October 25, 2018

4 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

The problem with your funny man post is that the predictions in question were mgnations, not mine.

He quoted you and asked you a question, not mgnation.

southsideguy · October 25, 2018

UAB has lost the advantage the NCAA gave them. They will come back to the pack. LATECH always has a decent team. FAU I am still trying to figure out.

Cerebus · October 25, 2018

1 minute ago, southsideguy said:

FAU I am still trying to figure out.

They lost that hurry up offense. New OC doesn't emphasize it, and I think that is mainly because their new QB isn't able to run it as fast as the old one.

I know the FAU fans always bad talked him, but Driskel had a 4-1 TD/INT ratio and kept that offense humming.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

He quoted you and asked you a question, not mgnation.

I think it was said in jest hence the quotations. Then he referred back to the 12-0 statement which was made by mgnation, of which I agree with the thought process of. The great programs are great because they have great expectations. And nothing else is tolerable. But, as you were.

Censored by Laurie · October 25, 2018

3 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

The great programs are great because they have great expectations. And nothing else is tolerable.

the therapy your children will need...

NorthTexasWeLove · October 25, 2018

4 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

the therapy your children will need...

Yeah....or throw em in front of an iPad and let electronics raise them like the average run of the muck parents do. Or let them talk to people in any way whatsoever and at times even right in front of their parents with no repercussions. Or my favorite, hold their hand through every adveristy that hits so you will have 26 year old children living in the room their diapers were changed in. Ahhh yes, modern parenting. Friends first.