Just another bowl team

NTEX91 · October 21, 2018

Nice problem to have! Face it, we gave this race away with two winnable loses. My how our expectations have changed in the past two years. I feel cheated, how about you? I’ll be at Apogee next Saturday for win #7. Let’s make it 10-2 this year. Still a lot to play for. This team just peaked a bit early. If you need a RESET, just go back 3 years. Disappointing as it is, I’ll take this season over that. GMG!

NorthTexasWeLove · October 21, 2018

I don't know how to respond to this. So I'll just leave this as my response.

Mike Jackson · October 21, 2018

We aren't getting where this program needs to be based on the potential and the investments UNT has made.

1. This is a front running sports community that doesn't faithfully support any local franchise except the Cowboys. We cannot play around with rebooting or upstart programs get beat and maintain the momentum to make Apogee a highly desired Saturday designation

2. We need back to back CUSA Conference championships before we can say this program is on solid footing to grow into what it should be.

3. We cannot go 1-2 against the "blue bloods" (Southern Miss, UAB, and La Tech) of the CUSA west and make this program a blue blood with them.

4. We had an opportunity to make things a little tougher for UAB in recruiting against us as a recently rebooted FBS program that would have yet to beat us after their rebirth.

5.. If you go to winspedia.com and compare our program & school to these younger FBS programs it will make you very upset. We had every opportunity to keep these programs far behind us in recruiting and winning conference games.

Look at this

WKU FBS Birth 2010 record against us 4-4

FIU FBS Birth 2004 record against us 5-3

FAU FBS Birth 2004 record against us 8-4

UTSA FBS Birth 2011 record against us 3-2

Troy FBS Birth 2001 record agains us 9-2

These younger programs should be an occasional speed bump for us and not wining the historical series. I don't know how many recruits we are losing to these programs but I am sure it is not zero.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Mike Jackson

Pavlovs Eagle · October 21, 2018

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

We aren't getting where this program needs to be based on the potential and the investments UNT has made.

Everyone, G Brent Ryan included, should stop bragging about how much we pay Littrell ($1.425m) after tonight.

I wish I could just do so-so at my job and outpace every one of my peers in salary. Littrell makes double Holtz at LaTech, and half a million more than Clark at UAB.

meangreenlax · October 21, 2018

Honestly, if you can’t compete for a division in CUSA, you ain’t shit. This team has a long way to go.

greenminer · October 21, 2018

Guys, 2019 class will be the first step towards next level football. Do I wish they happened Season 1 Litrell instead of Season 3? Definitely. But this is the missing piece in what is otherwise a remarkable program. Now just doesn’t seem like a time to abandon them. Just my 0.02

MeanGreenTexan · October 21, 2018

5 hours ago, meangreenlax said:

Honestly, if you can’t compete for a division in CUSA, you ain’t shit. This team has a long way to go.

Do you mean “win a division...”? We won the division last year & certainly “competed/are competing” for it this year!

A lot of people here are either too emotional, or spoiled after only 1.5 seasons of “competing for a division”.

Venson · October 21, 2018

I think this team is great. We may not win a championship this year, but no one on this board can honestly say they thought we would even be competing for championships or in the conversation about one in year three of a rebuild. We were 1-11 in 2015, 5-8 2016, 9-5 2017, and now 6-2 so far with the most difficult part of our schedule behind us. We have 5 more games left because we should beat everyone else and have a good chance of winning our bowl game. That would make for an 11-2 season. We still have McCarney era players on this team. We have a lot of Littrell players as well, but really how well could he recruit when he came to us mid December and had a very short time to convince kids to come to a school that was really a dumpster fire? He had to take what he could get. He took what he inherited and coached them up to exceed expectations and came away with a 5-8 season. After that season, his staff was raided and he had to reset. Plus 5-8 doesn't convince a lot of 3 star kids to come to a place that has been losing for years. He coached them to a 9-5 season and the result is now we have the number one recruiting class in CUSA coming in. Next year all of McCarney's players will be gone and this will be completely SL's guys and a huge recruiting class coming in. If he cannot start winning championships in the next two years, then I would worry, but right now I think he is moving this team right along nicely. I think we as fans want more sooner because we are just so tired of losing.

MattMakesLoans · October 21, 2018

Good perspective. In the Littrell era the team has been a step a head of normal expectations.The problem is all of these things have raised our expectations beyond where the team realistically his. This team can still get 10 wins this season, which is a huge benchmark for UNT. Winning our bowl game is another important milestone for this program.

Normal expectations: stop the bleeding in year one, .500 record in year two, get to a bowl in year three.

UNT has exceeded expectations: bowl game in year one, conference championship game in year two, undefeated OOC schedule in year 3.

emmitt01 · October 21, 2018

6 hours ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

Everyone, G Brent Ryan included, should stop bragging about how much we pay Littrell ($1.425m) after tonight.

I wish I could just do so-so at my job and outpace every one of my peers in salary. Littrell makes double Holtz at LaTech, and half a million more than Clark at UAB.

I hope I NEVER have to work for you as a boss if you think Littrell is doing a so-so job.

Year 1 his win total was a “middling” +4 compared to the year before (5 wins vs 1).

He followed that “mediocre” performance up in year 2 by again being +4 in the win column (9 wins vs 5).

I know he will fail to maintain his established “so-so” pace...but not every team can win 13 games.

I can see how, given our illustrious history or winning (3 bowl wins TOTAL), one could wish to hold his feet to the fire for failing to measure up. I just think I’ll keep my torch and pitchfork in the shed for a little longer, show up Friday night to kick off my Homecoming celebration, and then watch my team pick up win #7 along with a very large crowd of those who enjoy the taste of winning (because it’s not commonplace in these parts YET).

Edited October 21, 2018 by emmitt01

NorthTexasWeLove · October 21, 2018

6 hours ago, greenminer said:

Guys, 2019 class will be the first step towards next level football. Do I wish they happened Season 1 Litrell instead of Season 3? Definitely. But this is the missing piece in what is otherwise a remarkable program. Now just doesn’t seem like a time to abandon them. Just my 0.02

Wrong. Playing with the best QB in school history, currently. The time is/was now. When this 19 class starts to make an impact we will be playing with an inexperienced QB. And I have no reason to believe any of our current guys will be Mason Fine 2.0.

FirefightnRick · October 21, 2018

Hit 10 And A Bowl Win!

Who’s with me?

Rick

NorthTexasWeLove · October 21, 2018

8 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Hit 10 And A Bowl Win!

Who’s with me?

Rick

I think the goals have been shifted. And Rick hit right on them. I'm definitely with you...it's just an aggravating ride this year has been.

RBP79 · October 21, 2018

Don't believe the players lost these two games.....the coaching did. But since SL and GH are still in a learning curve you can't grip too much. Two years from now if they still haven't won a Conference title or Bowl game then maybe they are in over their heads.

After following NTSU & UNT football for almost 50 years if you think I'm spoiled that's funny!

Pavlovs Eagle · October 21, 2018

2 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

I hope I NEVER have to work for you as a boss if you think Littrell is doing a so-so job.

Year 1 his win total was a “middling” +4 compared to the year before (5 wins vs 1).

He followed that “mediocre” performance up in year 2 by again being +4 in the win column (9 wins vs 5).

I know he will fail to maintain his established “so-so” pace...but not every team can win 13 games.

I can see how, given our illustrious history or winning (3 bowl wins TOTAL), one could wish to hold his feet to the fire for failing to measure up. I just think I’ll keep my torch and pitchfork in the shed for a little longer, show up Friday night to kick off my Homecoming celebration, and then watch my team pick up win #7 along with a very large crowd of those who enjoy the taste of winning (because it’s not commonplace in these parts YET).

Fair comments... Im an okay guy to work for most of the time. 😁

He has earned at least a $1m of that salary just from rebuilding the trainwreck of a team he inherited. Maybe he earns a little bit more of that extra $425k over $1m we're paying him just because we like winning, we're a little insecure at heart, and we can't imagine not having 9 win seasons. But the amount of people out there who would advocate to pay him up to $2m just to get to the Heart of Dallas bowl and not a Conference Championship is shocking.

Not to say WB and GBR won't figure out a way to get that payroll up even more... But you better believe they're gonna soak the season ticket holders to do it, and then tell us how we should be thanking them for the YOY season ticket price increase of 10 or 15 percent.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Pavlovs Eagle

Mike Jackson · October 21, 2018

2 hours ago, Venson said:

He coached them to a 9-5 season and the result is now we have the number one recruiting class in CUSA coming in. Next year all of McCarney's players will be gone and this will be completely SL's guys and a huge recruiting class coming in. If he cannot start winning championships in the next two years, then I would worry, but right now I think he is moving this team right along nicely. I think we as fans want more sooner because we are just so tired of losing.

A good post but I see a lot of the same excuses the other start-up programs and reboot programs that have out perform UNT has. I think it is more daunting to rebuild a program from a self imposed death penality than just a bad FBS team. This is not a criticism coach Seth, RV, Wren Baker, or Dan McCarney these are just facts. If this team without a major injury loses a game left on their regular season schedule that is unacceptable. A 3 loss season in a vacuum without expectations and without some of the best resources in the conference is great. That isn't the case in "New Denton". We had some of the best resources in the conference for years. The only really bad decision they made was Todd Dodge and the inexperienced staff they put around him. But last year and this year we have lost against teams thrown together in two years or less. We barely beat UAB at Apogee last year come, really. When I said Liberty might beat us if we were on their 2019 schedule that wasn't a joke or doom and gloom it is based on our track record. So all this talk and hand wringing about losing Seth should end. Good programs are bigger than one head coach. Seth is very good and I believe their are a few coaches that could do a better job here. So I don't want to hear execuses anymore. Losses to stable established programs like La Tech every other year are fine. Getting blown out by the likes of Troy and FAU aren't. Struggling with programs in their first or second of FBS (or returning to) isn't.

emmitt01 · October 21, 2018

15 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

A good post but I see a lot of the same excuses the other start-up programs and reboot programs that have out perform UNT has. I think it is more daunting to rebuild a program from a self imposed death penality than just a bad FBS team. This is not a criticism coach Seth, RV, Wren Baker, or Dan McCarney these are just facts. If this team without a major injury loses a game left on their regular season schedule that is unacceptable. A 3 loss season in a vacuum without expectations and without some of the best resources in the conference is great. That isn't the case in "New Denton". We had some of the best resources in the conference for years. The only really bad decision they made was Todd Dodge and the inexperienced staff they put around him. But last year and this year we have lost against teams thrown together in two years or less. We barely beat UAB at Apogee last year come, really. When I said Liberty might beat us if we were on their 2019 schedule that wasn't a joke or doom and gloom it is based on our track record. So all this talk and hand wringing about losing Seth should end. Good programs are bigger than one head coach. Seth is very good and I believe their are a few coaches that could do a better job here. So I don't want to hear execuses anymore. Losses to stable established programs like La Tech every other year are fine. Getting blown out by the likes of Troy and FAU aren't. Struggling with programs in their first or second of FBS (or returning to) isn't.

*Up front addendum...we should have won last night*

With that out of the way, UAB is no typical “thrown together” program. They’re a team thrown together with little/no restriction on who they could bring in and they are more than just a little senior (citizen) laden. Again, should have beat them but it’s not affecting my world view because I know they don’t come CLOSE to replicating this next season.

If UTA restarts their program and beats us within the first decade after returning, then I’ll demand heads roll. UAB aint that kind of “start up.”

Mike Jackson · October 21, 2018

4 hours ago, MattMakesLoans said:

UNT has exceeded expectations: bowl game in year one, conference championship game in year two, undefeated OOC schedule in year 3.

Fine but let me ask this. What should FAU's expectations been in year one of Lane Kiffin? What should UAB's expectation been in year 2 coming back from not having a team at all? In year one at Troy what expectations should they had of Neal Brown? These teams loaded with possible execuses on big stages kick our ass. That isn't being tired of just losing, all programs lose from time to time. It about who you lose to and when you lose to them. Losing to a coach who had 3 years to get historically respectable program back up from a bad patch is understandable. That isn't what is going on in a lot of loses here.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Mike Jackson

Mike Jackson · October 21, 2018

4 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

*Up front addendum...we should have won last night*

With that out of the way, UAB is no typical “thrown together” program. They’re a team thrown together with little/no restriction on who they could bring in and they are more than just a little senior (citizen) laden. Again, should have beat them but it’s not affecting my world view because I know they don’t come CLOSE to replicating this next season.

If UTA restarts their program and beats us within the first decade after returning, then I’ll demand heads roll. UAB aint that kind of “start up.”

This is bigger than a loss to UAB it is a long track record that predates Seth of losing to programs on the rebound. And we could have plenty of execuses next year if we lose to them other CUSA teams: Defense depleted by graduation and losing both RT and LT to graduation on a team that leans on its passing game.

Look I am not saying fire Seth or anyone. But we can't continue to make these execuses for the program then wonder why we can't sellout Apogee. The fact is far too often we see other programs do more with less.

southsideguy · October 21, 2018

We all know we most likely wont see another Mason Fine anytime soon if ever. But realistically we only need a good qb if we can develop a O-Line that can protect our qb and open up holes for the RB. A good OLINE can make a good qb a great qb. Mason is a great qb that is always under pressure.

greenminer · October 21, 2018

3 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Wrong. Playing with the best QB in school history, currently. The time is/was now. When this 19 class starts to make an impact we will be playing with an inexperienced QB. And I have no reason to believe any of our current guys will be Mason Fine 2.0.

The tale of Dan Marino and Matthew Stafford. Gotcha.

I’m interested in Troy Aikmans and Ken Dorseys.

Lee Corso could be distributing the ball for all I care. Put the right players around him, and he could win. Good news is, with this staff I think we’ll never have a problem at the QB position.

UNTexas · October 21, 2018

Not sure what bowl we will play in but I am so unhappy about 2 losses we could have won. I had such high hopes. I'm not sure why our team jumps up on people then can't move the ball.

97and03 · October 21, 2018

The problem is that this was the year to make the big breakout. Next year, we lose almost the entire defense.

Mike Jackson · October 21, 2018

Look with all respect due to the old fans that find us griping about 8+ wins this is why so many of your alumni peers don't support this program. I for one have followed the team since Dickey. They ran him off after 2 bad years working with crap facilities. The expectation was then 3 straight Conference titles and a couple of down years was unacceptable. Programs like FAU, FIU, and now rebooted UAB with just as many execuses as we have beat us more often than we beat them. I am just tired of execuses and this mentality when we point these short comings out.

Thank you for the basic. With a smile?

FIU was 4-8 2016 now they are probably going to win the East and it looking like they will face UAB. If these programs can do it with less or with just as many challenges as we have or more there are no more execuses or feeling "good" about a competitive season in a mediocre G5 conference with the best QB you have ever had.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Mike Jackson

GrandGreen · October 21, 2018

30 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

Look with all respect due to the old fans that find us griping about 8+ wins this is why so many of your alumni peers don't support this program. I for one have followed the team since Dickey. They ran him off after 2 bad years working with crap facilities. The expectation was then 3 straight Conference titles and a couple of down years was unacceptable. Programs like FAU, FIU, and now rebooted UAB with just as many execuses as we have beat us more often than we beat them. I am just tired of execuses and this mentality when we point these short comings out.

Thank you for the basic. With a smile?

FIU was 4-8 2016 now they are probably going to win the East and it looking like they will face UAB. If these programs can do it with less or with just as many challenges as we have or more there are no more execuses or feeling "good" about a competitive season in a mediocre G5 conference with the best QB you have ever had.

Not sure you or anyone else can dictate anybody's feelings about anything.

As far as excuses, have you read any message board after a disappointing loss. It is usually blame the coaches and the QB. Here most have the sense to realize Fine is the paramount reason NT has won 6 games. Then it usually the referees or luck or the players

It is seldom NT just lost to a good team in a close game.

I assume you are stated that you are not going to accept anything but a championship program and there are no excuses. However, I have no idea what that means.

You can have nothing to do with NT football. However, you would not be posting here if that were your choice.