Why not build a financial fortress around Littrell now?

[Harry]

Would it not be a better strategy to insulate any lower tier p5’s from snatching Littrell by upping his compensation and buyout now as opposed to the end of the season when the vultures come?  Isn’t that what Houston did with Hermans?  And if Tech or Ole Miss, North Carolina  etc come calling you at least make them write you a damn nice check.

 I realize a lot of dough was already thrown at the new state of the art IPF which makes it tough to do.    However, after reading the Dodd CBS article and seeing Seth ponied up with an A league agent we may should do something sooner than later.  If you can buy even a couple more years with this staff you will move the program and the University exposure to levels we could not reach otherwise.

 

[DentonLurker]

If Seth is interested in seeing what his options are after this season, what's his incentive to sign now?

[NorthTexan95]

Talking contract during the season may be a distraction neither side wants.  However, our bye week is coming up so that may be an opportunity to do so. 

[Withers940]

I've been talking about this with my buddies since the season started. Make it where the money is good for him while he is here and if someone wants to jump in and pay him money, hit em with a buy out clause. UNT's current success and trajectory, I feel like our big dog donors will continue to spit out money to try and keep him here as long as humanly possible.

[97and03]

[bracing for backlash]

How about Seth wins a big game first? We have extended him twice already and we have yet to win a pressure game. Examples:

2016: UTEP to become bowl eligible and the bowl game against Army

2017: FAU, FAU in conference championship, bowl versus Troy 

2018:  undefeated heading into conference play in front of a near sell-out vs. LaTech

One could argue SMU this year was such a game, but then you would have to put the 2017 SMU loss in the negative column.

I really like the direction of the program, but there are still a couple of things I want to see before we extend again. One seems to be accomplished soon - a top of conference recruiting class. The second is a conference championship and/or bowl win against a strong opponent. Many (including the OP if I remember correctly) were fully on board with Mac’s extension after his perfect storm 2013 season, but I am on record as being skeptical and wanting some patience then as well. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by 97and03

[MGNation92]

Didn't they already do that this past season?

His max buyout is if it happens after this season, and then goes down each year after. Something like 2.1 Million and his remaining salary for the length of the contract if I remember correctly

[UNTcrazy727]

2 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

[bracing for backlash]

How about Seth wins a big game first? We have extended him twice already and we have yet to win a pressure game. Examples:

2016: UTEP to become bowl eligible and the bowl game against Army

2017: FAU, FAU in conference championship, bowl versus Troy 

2018:  undefeated heading into conference play in front of a near sell-out vs. LaTech

One could argue SMU this year was such a game, but then you would have to put the 2017 SMU loss in the negative column.

I really like the direction of the program, but there are still a couple of things I want to see before we extend again. One seems to be accomplished soon - a top of conference recruiting class. The second is a conference championship and/or bowl win against a strong opponent. Many (including the OP if I remember correctly) were fully on board with Mac’s extension after his perfect storm 2013 season, but I am on record as being skeptical and wanting some patience then as well. 

Were the UTSA and LA Tech games not big last year? They were certainly more important than the regular season FAU game. 

[strikes]

If money is the only factor as why Seth would leave, then I consider that a win. We can find the money somewhere. But if it's something else... I dunno.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

He didn't sign with Jimmy Sexton for no reason. Sexton is known for pushing the envelope and playing up interest of other schools to get his clients (and himself) more money. After all, he has 11 or 12 SEC head coaches as clients...somehow. So he's privy to bullshitting his way to a couple hundred thousand per off-season. If people thought Seth was our knight in shining armour....well...don't hold your breath. This solidifies his departure, probably sooner than later. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by NorthTexasWeLove

[chrisfisher]

Good post Harry. I was going to post a similar post. It seems everyone asks if we can afford to keep him.  My simple question is, "Can we afford not to keep him?" 

The crazy media exposure we've received, especially this season (that trick play alone was equivalent to $500,000 in advertising), and football attendance has significantly improved, and will continue to improve with more winning seasons.  Boise kept their coach for many, many years despite frequent Top 25 rankings....They paid their coach, if I recall, 3 million per year...That was enough to keep the vultures away..... Combine that with, at least what I read in an article, Seth really like it here, and even has close friends that are also major (big time $$$) donors that live here too.  

Edited October 16, 2018 by chrisfisher

[DeepGreen]

If/when we lose Seth, the buyout should be really high so UNT gets a big chunk out of it.  Also, and this would already have been written into the contract(hopefully), that whoever hires Seth agrees to play UNT "home and home" in football and basketball.

[Stix]

... anticipating an epic battle between @Harry and @Cerebus regarding Littrell threads...

[Cerebus]

I'm sure Wren Baker would be happy to cash any check that people would want to send him...

[risinggreen]

I think we can afford to double up on his salary if we have to. I just hope there's a reason to do so. No doubt that his family will have some input. We shall see.

[MeanGreenTexan]

First, 
This one should definitely be merged with the Mega Thread.

Second,
What constitutes a "lower-tier" P5?   
  -  If you mean a historically significant school that has fallen on hard times recently (thinking FSU, Nebraska, UCLA), then there's no possible way we could build a "financial fortress" big enough.  If they came calling, he's gone.
  -  If you mean historically insignificant schools that are constantly middling (thinking Wake Forest, Rutgers, ORSt), then that is more wide open, and it would really boil down to how Littrell feels about the challenge he faces.  If it's one he would like to bite-off and go for... we're not holding him back, even if we could pay equal what they do (and Mr. Ryan has made it clearly known he's ready to do just that).   So, I think keeping him at the upper tier of G5 coaches (which, we are) is going to be just fine.

[meangreenlax]

Whatever we give SL, a SEC/BigXII/etc team will just multiply it by a significant number.

When the right school comes knocking, we might as well be pissing into the wind. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by meangreenlax

[Harry]

34 minutes ago, Stix said:

... anticipating an epic battle between @Harry and @Cerebus regarding Littrell threads...

I felt like this was a little different in that it addressed Littrell’s contract more than teams interested in Littrell etc.  if @Cerebus wants to merge I am cool with that.

[GrandGreen]

NT should be definitely making plans to keep Littrell and hire his replacement if he leaves.   However, forget the contract negotiation during the season; that a distraction that Littrel doesn't need and will serve little purpose.     

[Stix]

12 minutes ago, Harry said:

I felt like this was a little different in that it addressed Littrell’s contract more than teams interested in Littrell etc.  if @Cerebus wants to merge I am cool with that.

aw, that's no fun!

[Wag Tag]

5yrs $20m will be Seth’s next contract to leave UNT! He is already the highest paid in C-USA at $1.4m!

[Wag Tag]

Also thought it was interesting how he talked about the bond he has with Ref and Graham today. If he goes they will follow?

[Mean Green 93-98]

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

if @Cerebus wants to merge I am cool with that.

 

[97and03]

57 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Were the UTSA and LA Tech games not big last year? They were certainly more important than the regular season FAU game. 

They were important, yes, perhaps more important in winning the conference than FAU mid-season. Thankfully we won both those games.  I think the FAU game got pretty good attention in the conference/region/nationally because of Kiffin. And then there were the pool party rumors.  That was to me a genuine concern, along with the (IMO) excessive celebrations by the players this season.  (I love celebrations in football for the record.  I think their prohibition is stupid, but is the current rule and we can't afford these types of penalties like in the LaTech game. They also seem to conflict with the 'selfless' and 'disciplined' parts of the core values.)

I was not opposed to the extension after last season, but given that we have a 2 million buyout if he bails this year I would wait another year for another extension.  Either way, I would not do anything mid-season.

 

Now if he wins the conference, a bowl against a P5, and lands the #1 recruiting class in CUSA - all bets are off and start writing that new contract! 

[El Paso Eagle]

The reality in today's world is you cannot wait to pay after it happens. You have to anticipate what could happen and pay for that possibility. It we do not someone else will 

[outoftown]

I would like to wait at least one more week. Teams that scored 40 or more on NT last season included SMU, army, UAB, FAU, FAU and Troy. Apart from SMU those are all run first teams or at least teams that favor physical play over finesse, and NT looked much worse when playing those. So far NT has not played any proficient run first teams this season. If NT can show that they got this against UAB I would think SL looks much better.

That said, if NT manages UABs offense what I would want to see happen more urgently than SL  getting another raise is Reffett under contract til 2020 and the defensive coaches all getting significant raises.

SL is already paid 300k more than all other C-USA HCs, 400k more for example than Lane Kiffin who has actually won a conference championship (but obviously has other baggage). Where I think we need to be better prepared urgently, is for the attack on our assistants and coordinators. The way SL is paid, I get the feeling that either schools already can't afford him, or that there is no amount that will keep them from getting him. Also, if he gets another raise, he is essentially paid so much, that he needs 10 wins a season to justify it. What if Fine gets injured and he only gets 8 or 9 this and next season? Beyond that, this season it looks like there will be fewer interesting P5 openings than usually.

Edited October 17, 2018 by outoftown