Final Thoughts on UA Game from PokeyPig

[PokeyPig]

First off, I want to say I’ve enjoyed the last couple of weeks on here discussing the game with everyone.  If you don’t mind, I plan on hanging around for a while and enjoying the rest of the season with you guys – it's not like I have much to watch from Fayetteville this year.  🙂  I’ll be at the La Tech game for sure, wouldn't miss hearing the fans appreciation for the team’s performance in person. 

I had to step back a little after the game and let you have your fun, it’s been a long time coming so I understand your excitement.  I’m a hog fan though, so it was a little tough to take and I kept my visits to a minimum.  I’m all better now though...  mostly.  🙂 

There are a few things I’d like to comment on now.  First, I hope UNT stays focused and doesn't let too much of this go to their heads.  Not saying that in a bad way, it happens.  I know we’re SEC and all, but the reality of it is we suck right now.  This is the worst team I’ve seen us field in my lifetime.  Bert (not a typo) left us with a talent shortage in the areas needed for success with the new system we’re trying to install, and the good players we DO have aren't really meant for this scheme.  It’s unlikely we’ll win an SEC game this year, let alone any more for that matter.  UNT has tougher challenges than us ahead, from what I’ve seen from your coaching staff I don’t expect there to be an issue with success, but it’s happened before.

Next, I’ve seen some shots on here taken at our fans for leaving the game as early as they did.  I get defensive when people talk about our fans because, in my completely biased opinion, we have some of the best/nicest fans in all of college sports.  I’m not talking about the internet trolls, I’m talking about the actual fans in the seat.  There’s always the asshats, but in general I challenge you to go to an athletic event and be treated better anywhere else as a visiting fan. 

The pics on here of our empty stadium implied that we were just a bunch of butthurt, fair weathered fans abandoning their team.  These fans have been through SO much over the last decade, and have stuck it out.  We were lambasted by the national media for hiring Petrino.  It was so terrible he left his professional team mid-season, never mind that coaches get fired mid-season all the time and it’s ok.  We caught so much national grief over that, it was unreal – a hell of a lot more than OSU has gotten for keeping Meyer this year. 

Then our fans became the laughing stock when Petrino crashed his motorcycle.  We fired him, much to the anger of most of our fans, and replaced him with the incompetent John L Smith.  2012 was supposed to be one of our best years ever, maybe even making a run at a title (both Alabama and LSU were home games).  Instead, it was one of our worst and we had to sit and watch John L tell us all to “smile”.

I could go on and on, but my point is it wasn't just this one game our fans were walking out of, it was a culmination of years of crap being dumped on them.  Then, to see it pointed out on here, well it kinda stuck in my craw a little.  I mean, in the end it’s about the product on the field.  I’ve driven by your stadium many, many Saturdays and seen it pretty empty, now that you've got a good product to sell – you’re talking about a possible sell out.  You guys pointing out crowd support is kinda hypocritical if you ask me. 

Finally, the punt return.  I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to oblivion for this but here goes.  When it happened, I laughed my ass off.  I thought it was funny as hell, and just shook my head at the ineptness of our coaching staff and the give up of our players.  Plus, my kids had friends that went to Lake Dallas and know Keegan, so seeing the local kid do good made me proud. 

However, upon further review… I’ve got mixed emotions about it.  At the end of the day, your placing some dependence for the play’s success on the good sportsmanship of the other team.  Reading the details on how the play was setup helped convince me of this.  The fact the gunners, and all opposing players are engaged so they had to take their eyes off the punt returner, to put doubt it their minds about whether fair catch was called.  Choosing a situation where 99 times out of 100 the returner will call for a fair catch to begin with - short punt, deep in their end of the field. 

Plus, in this day and age, week after week players are coached not to hit a defenseless player, that they’ll be penalized and probably ejected and suspended if they do.  So, the punt team, not having been able to see the returner, is supposed to tackle a defenseless player because he hasn’t heard a whistle?  I know ‘back in the day’ when I was running down the field on kick coverage if everybody in front of me eased up I assumed I’d missed the fair catch call and eased up as well.  I wouldn’t have thought about making contact with the returner. 

I ask how you would have felt if Keegan really had called for a fair catch in that situation and one of our players had not seen it and took Keegan’s head off, what would you have thought about that player?  Would you have called for his ejection?  Would you have vilified him as being cheap?  Think about it.

I still think the play is funny as hell and laugh when it’s shown, and I’m happy UNT is getting the good pub --- but I really don’t think it’s as black and white of a play as it is on first watch.  It’s not just about lazy Arkansas players not finishing the play.  Those of you that have played the game ask yourself, what would you have done if everybody in front of you stopped.  Would you have said, “I didn’t hear a whistle so I’m going to light him up?”

Anyway, this was longer than I’d planned and seriously, I’m not trying to offend or downplay UNT’s success.  You guys are great, like I’ve been saying for two weeks now!

Good luck the rest of the year and I’ll be seeing you at the games!

[meanrob]

I appreciate your level-headedness of the past weeks and glad to hear you're going to a game but....

There's not another fan base in the country who I want to hear how rough they have/had it. 

Not. One. 

GMG!

[Moobs]

@PokeyPig I've appreciated your level headedness, insight into UA and commentary leading up to this game.  But there are very few college football programs and fans that can complain about mediocrity of their program to us and get any sympathy.  We really do know where you're coming from.  It's rough.  We all know it.  But if it goes on for another decade or two, then come talk to us about that.  You'll find a little more sympathy here at that time.  HAHA!

And concerning the punt return, I think you are absolutely correct about how we'd see it if it went any other way.  We're all going to look at it through our green tinted glasses.

Hope you come out to the games and have a good time.  The more the merrier!

Edited September 17, 2018 by Moobs

[greenminer]

In my completely biased opinion, if an ARK player had blasted Brewer I would have accepted the fact that the risk was there.

I read on your board someone suggest that our staff would have cried "targeting" if the play didn't work.  I'm skeptical.  If you, as a coach, inform the refs (which they did) that the play was in the books for the game....you're not in a position to cry foul to the refs like that if your play didn't work.  Coach Littrell is a man of character who doesn't pass the buck.

That's a ton of ifs-buts but, other than that, great post and good luck to y'all.

[tmjerm]

Agree with most of your post and please stick around and come to as many games as you can!  @Moobs is right about how it's hard to get much sympathy from us regarding mediocrity but totally get your point...and I will say we were treated beautifully in Fayetteville.  Everyone was fantastic both before and after the game.  Absolutely beautiful town.  

Regarding the punt return, the right play isn't to "light him up" but to breakdown in front of him if you didn't hear the whistle in that situation...much like an infielder keeping a glove on the runner who just stole a base...it's not a cheap play, it's a heady play....and a DAMN BRAVE ONE.  

I imagine most of us will be rooting for the Hogs to right the ship.  It's hard to run an offense with personnel built for the exact opposite end of the offensive spectrum...or with true Freshmen.  

Best of luck this year! 

[UNT Five&Dime]

[trud1966]

I don't think your honesty is worth of a down vote at all.  We always appreciate opposing fans visiting the board that help keep it respectable on both sides.  It's the trolls who jump on that just want to stir the pot that gets out of hand.  We're glad to have you. 

The Punt Return:    Truly a moment that will be talked about for years...And I get your view of it, seriously...All fair points given what is considered the right way to play...Are we simply sticking to the rules and the opposing team fell alseep?  Is a team getting away with a loophole kinda implied "Good Sportsmaship" situation? Personally, I think it was fair, but again, I respect other views...makes for interesting discussion...

Here's the deal though...This play has been so publicized (and I'm not gonna lie, I love it...) that I'm certain that it's not only being viewed by the millions of fans looking this crazy/funny play that everyone will get a kick out of...I assure you, as funny as it was, the NCAA will use this, at some point, as the perfect "case-study" when considering rule-changes....Yes, Boo indeed...Not saying any rules will ever get changed because if it, but someone at the NCAA, at some point, will say, "well, we should take another look at punt return rules, because remember that time that UNT ran back that punt against Arkansas, blah blah bah..."

Cant wait for Game Day this Saturday...You know this return is going to be a segment piece...

[NorthTexan95]

My only issue with the punt fake is that we used it in a blowout.  We should have saved it for an important game.  😄

[greenminer]

Someone - anyone - remind me of the current NCAA protection rules.  Didn't they get rid of the protection halo? Wasn't there a time the kicking team had to give him X feet to catch the ball? 

How would that halo have impacted the use of this play?

[Wag Tag]

Thanks for reaching out and participating. Your last 2 recruiting classes were ranked 27- 2017 and 23-2016 so you have talent . My major concern was your D (line) blowing us up! Surprised Ark let Mason stand up most the game. You have hired a good recruiter and hopefully his son will sign up. A group of us actually had access to the touchdown club. They were great and the staff all the way around was fantastic! Now in the stands that is where it was testy, and to be expected.

I think you made a big mistake competing in the SEC, but good luck!

[greeneagle1]

15 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

My only issue with the punt fake is that we used it in a blowout.  We should have saved it for an important game.  😄

It was 7-0 when we used it and we certainly were taking Arkansas seriously. It's been blown up because of how lopsided the game ended up being. Someone said it before that if we won, ESPN and others would have ran the score and moved on to not show a weakness in the SEC and P5. Instead, its being run over and over and over again and us as a G5 team is getting free publicity. 

[NorthTexan95]

2 minutes ago, greeneagle1 said:

It was 7-0 when we used it and we certainly were taking Arkansas seriously. It's been blown up because of how lopsided the game ended up being. Someone said it before that if we won, ESPN and others would have ran the score and moved on to not show a weakness in the SEC and P5. Instead, its being run over and over and over again and us as a G5 team is getting free publicity. 

I suppose you missed my little smiley face at the end of my comment? 

[NT93]

23 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

My only issue with the punt fake is that we used it in a blowout.  We should have saved it for an important game.  😄

I feel like the play was the impetus for the blowout.   Ooops, guess I missed the smiley too.😆😆

 

28 minutes ago, tmjerm said:

Regarding the punt return, the right play isn't to "light him up" but to breakdown in front of him if you didn't hear the whistle in that situation...much like an infielder keeping a glove on the runner who just stole a base...it's not a cheap play, it's a heady play...

Thank you!  Had the Ark. players just stood in front of him, he possibly would have just taken a knee.  At the very least they could have just grabbed him and the refs would have probably had a very quick whistle.

 

Great post PokeyPig.  I love it when level headed fans from other teams visit the forum leading up to the game.  

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by NT93

[GreenTexan13]

@PokeyPig I hear you dude. A lot of what you said is very valid and I was very pleased with how I was treated by your fans in Fayetteville. The only person I got flack from was my Arkansas alumni brother and that is just because he had to sit through my happiness of UNT being so successful that whole day. 

However, you think Arkansas has been bad with crap being dumped on the fanbase? Try being a UNT fan and you'll be running back to Arkansas Football at the drop of a hat. As fans we have endured years of losing.. YEARS.. 

77-7 Portland State kicking our ass, the Todd Dodge years, dropping the program to below Division 1 level in the 90's, an athletic director who cared more about jimmy johns sandwiches than sticking up for the program, and playing at a dingy Fouts field well into the late 2000's. 

Us hard core fans have stuck through the hard times, meltdowns on this board, loss of hope, sat in near empty Apogee.. Please let us have our year man, we need it. I have never witnessed UNT go 3-0 in my UNT fandom and I'm pretty sure we have not had a record this good since 1994.

Thank you for supporting us! I will hope you guys bounce back soon, you all deserve better and you should be proud U of A has such a respectable fanbase. (I look forward to visiting y'alls stadium in the future (with or without UNT playing there)

[NorthTexasWeLove]

How bad you guys have had it? Are you serious. 

And when you drive by the stadium on Saturday's to peak into our empty stadium, the people on this very board were in there. We are the diehards. Alum are starting to take notice and conveniently get on board, of which they are more than welcome to. But to roast a fan board for a program like ours has been until very recently is foolish. A big portion of us on here have sat in absolute empty sections of our stadium for the entire game during a blowout loss, more than several occasions. And this UNT team, this one, would honestly beat 1/3 to maybe 1/2 of the mighty SEC if it went 50/50 home and away. So save the 'we really suck' talk. Sounds chintzy. 

But enjoy the game you choose to come to.

[FirefightnRick]

WOW!!!!  A historical post.

 I never thought I’d ever read the words of an SEC fan making excuses about a loss to North Texas on GMG....but there it is.

 I almost wished we had kept our first string in and put up 85 points on them like we could have.

 

Rick

[MeanGreenTexan]

Thanks @PokeyPig.   We've enjoyed having you around, and will welcome your input moving forward!  Don't be a stranger.

That said,
You're absolutely correct about fans here calling out your fans for leaving.   No one here is in a position to do that seeing as Apogee has never been sold out before, and far too many times has had only 4-figure attendance numbers when we were playing at our worst.  I can't blame your fans.   Fake punt and NT play aside, 6 interceptions is just awful.  I wouldn't want to watch that either.

And for the punt fake... was it you who said Arkansas does not have a special teams coach?   I hope Morris would change his mind, and soon, if so.   The NCAA just opened up a 10th on-field position this season.   Why on Earth wouldn't you want a dedicated ST's coordinator?   I would think that a dedicated ST's coordinator would have been able to work on playing through the whistle.   That's really what it boiled down to.    If Grant Morgan were to have just blown up Brewer, he would have had every right to do that, and I would not have cried "targeting" unless he actually left his feet & speared him with a helmet-to-helmet blow, as the rules imply.    However, he's gotta know (and he did know according to Brewer's interview after the game) that the whistle didn't blow and he needs to wrap up and take him down.  Gotta give him room to make a catch, obviously, but after that, if no whistle, tackle him.
In your hypothetical scenario though, if the whistle DID blow, and Morgan nailed him, that's obviously a personal foul penalty and 15yds.

In all sincerity, best of luck to the Hogs the rest of the way.   I would hate to see you guys go 0-fer in conference.   
And I bet you keep all of your recruits in this cycle because if I were a recruit watching what's been going on the past few weeks, my eyes would light up at the opportunities to play early.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

Just now, FirefightnRick said:

WOW!!!!  A historical post.

 I never thought I’d ever read the words of an SEC fan making excuses about a loss to North Texas on GMG....but there it is.

 I almost wished we had kept our first string in and put up 85 points on them like we could have.

 

Rick

And we could have. I wish we would have. Letting them pop one on our 3rd stringers with 45 secs to go was annoying as well. 

 

 

[GrandGreen]

Appreciate the thoughts, but the poor Arkansas stuff is funny at best to a long suffering NT fan. 

As far as the play, if Arkansas had been the perpetrator, all would be smiles in Arkansas land.   

All this talk of payback is stupid, what do those people think would have happened if Arkansas lit up the next fair catch signaler?  Arkansas would have got penalized and a player thrown out.  There would also be a big change of a fight occurring which would have only made matters much worse.   

Than Arkansas would have to suffer with is the replays of the return plus viewing the bad sportsmanship clip of the retaliation.  Does any hog fan think that would be better for the program?  

 

[FirefightnRick]

Gosh...is this a GMG or C-USA website mocking an empty Razorback Stadium?  No I believe it’s an SEC site that posted....

 

 

Rick

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

7 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

And we could have. I wish we would have. Letting them pop one on our 3rd stringers with 45 secs to go was annoying as well. 

 

 

SMU did that twice & Incarnate Word did it too.  Be ready for it to happen some more this weekend as well.

Our 3rd stringers apparently cannot play with other teams' starters.  Shocking!   
But these provide experiences for them to learn to trust the scheme and not try to come up and make a play when it's not there.

[greeneagle1]

15 minutes ago, GreenTexan13 said:

Us hard core fans have stuck through the hard times, meltdowns on this board, loss of hope, sat in near empty Apogee..

I was there vs UTEP in 2015! Last game of the year (and my undergrad). I remember there being more UTEP fans than students in the student section. It was Thanksgiving weekend too. What a time to be alive!

[greenminer]

I'm not gonna feel sorry for UA.  All that TV money.  All those facilities.

[PokeyPig]

17 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

WOW!!!!  A historical post.

 I never thought I’d ever read the words of an SEC fan making excuses about a loss to North Texas on GMG....but there it is.

 I almost wished we had kept our first string in and put up 85 points on them like we could have.

 

Rick

Not exactly sure where I was making excuses, I've been blatant for two weeks now how ya'll are better than us.  No excuses have been given for that.  Not sure how else I can put it.  My only point was we're not a good team right now.

Excuses for losing usually involve complaints about officiating, or saying we weren't focused and looking past you, or even we just messed up and dropped the ball too much, etc. etc.  I've shouted from the hilltops how you're better than us  - since when is saying you're better than us making an excuse for a loss??

[NorthTexasWeLove]

7 minutes ago, PokeyPig said:

Not exactly sure where I was making excuses, I've been blatant for two weeks now how ya'll are better than us.  No excuses have been given for that.  Not sure how else I can put it.  My only point was we're not a good team right now.

Excuses for losing usually involve complaints about officiating, or saying we weren't focused and looking past you, or even we just messed up and dropped the ball too much, etc. etc.  I've shouted from the hilltops how you're better than us  - since when is saying you're better than us making an excuse for a loss??

It's your tongue in cheek approach. "Yeah, you guys are good. But we are worse than your good and that's what really unfolded Saturday." 

It's like ending a relationship with the old cliche of, 'It's not you, it's me.'