Let's Talk About Player Development & Evaluation

[Caw Caw]

Now that the majority of our recruiting class (20/21 scholarships) are committed. Let's talk about the past classes and what got us here. Obviously the season is young, but so far, our team is heads/tails above where they were before. And while some young guys have cracked the depth chart, a good portion of our starters are upper classmen (17/22). Only one RS Freshman starts (Manase Mose). As we have a chance to admire a really strong recruiting class from this staff, I can't help but think back to some of the bigger and longer argumentative threads on recruiting.

A lot of people, prior to this recruiting season, have kept it as the staffs major knock, yet here we are, with potentially one of the best teams North Texas has had in a long time, maybe ever. I remember a few of us defending the staff and saying while the recruiting was middle of the pack or worse, we should trust their evaluation and development abilities. Let me start by saying I'm glad to have the boon in the current era, but how would you explain the disparity that's been heavily complained amount with the disparity of our success.

For a counter example, we have UTSA who has had several lauded classes with average/middle of the pack results. They did touch on player development briefly in the Beyond the Green episode. And part of their evaluation is a guy's commitment to the game, do they love football? What's their motivation? Do they want this culture or not? Fillani said that guys either buy-in or get out and the team was fine either way. For those of you who have been really disappointed in the last couple classes, if you don't use the 2019 class as a metric, has anything the other classes have produced on field changed your opinion? Do you find yourself trusting those evaluations more?

[Wag Tag]

All for evaluating, but would you rather be evaluating a 2 Star or a 3 Star. I also think a biiiig difference is the size and length of the next class! Linebackers at 6’2 DE at 6’3 OL At 6’5 , WR over 6’ , now we are getting D1 size that these coaches will develop! GMG 

[Caw Caw]

9 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

All for evaluating, but would you rather be evaluating a 2 Star or a 3 Star. I also think a biiiig difference is the size and length of the next class! Linebackers at 6’2 DE at 6’3 OL At 6’5 , WR over 6’ , now we are getting D1 size that these coaches will develop! GMG 

I mean if you we're going by stars and evaluations let me go with:

Rico Bussey Jr., JoJo Ozougwu, Jameel Moore, DHG, Mason Fine, EJ Ejiya, Khairi Muhammed, Tyreke Davis, Dion Novil, Brammer, Johnson, Sanders, Manase and Saia Mose, Kemon Hall was unrated.

Cameron Johnson, Guyton, Hambone, Darden, Greg White and Siggers are definitely meaningful three stars.

I'm just saying I think there's a lot to be said about our staffs ability to either identify or develop talent in their players.

Edit: Also any time a players size comes to mind I think of McCarney and his obsession with it. Set us back many a year taking kids with measurables instead of football players.

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Caw Caw

[outoftown]

I think that this staff sure seems good at both evaluating and developing. They did develop what they got extremely well and -and I think this is an underrated part of this development - managed to keep attrition rather low (which is also part of evaluation I think).

That does not change the fact that many of the players they evaluated as desirable for UNT in the past 2 classes were three-stars where they consistently lost out as soon as it was a battle and then they were forced to prove that they also had their second and third choices well evaluated.

To me the question is almost: How scary would UNT be right now if they had already recruited the past 2 seasons like they now seem to be able to do? I tend to think that if this staff were to stay another season or two, they would create a  monster of a different level with the kind of players committed in the current class, as those actually tend to be the staffs first choice.

Edited September 7, 2018 by outoftown

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, Caw Caw said:

I mean if you we're going by stars and evaluations let me go with:

Rico Bussey Jr., JoJo Ozougwu, Jameel Moore, DHG, Mason Fine, EJ Ejiya, Khairi Muhammed, Tyreke Davis, Dion Novil, Brammer, Johnson, Sanders, Manase and Saia Mose, Kemon Hall was unrated.

Cameron Johnson, Guyton, Hambone, Darden, Greg White and Siggers are definitely meaningful three stars.

I'm just saying I think there's a lot to be said about our staffs ability to either identify or develop talent in their players.

Edit: Also any time a players size comes to mind I think of McCarney and his obsession with it. Set us back many a year taking kids with measurables instead of football players.

 

Ahhh Mc and the Prototypical Qb! Went and watch one of our practices and every Qb was throwing out patterns! I thought man has times changed!

[NorthTexan95]

It's been reported the the change in staff who deal with recruiting is vastly improved this year.

[Cooke County Kid]

I believe the coaching staff, the team and the athletic department are all hitting on all eight cylinders.  Beat UIW!

[Caw Caw]

14 hours ago, NorthTexan95 said:

It's been reported the the change in staff who deal with recruiting is vastly improved this year.

Yeah, i'd love to be a fly on that wall and see what those two new staffers are doing that the others weren't. I mean clearly there is merit to those hiring moves.

[UNT Mean Green]

1 hour ago, Caw Caw said:

Yeah, i'd love to be a fly on that wall and see what those two new staffers are doing that the others weren't. I mean clearly there is merit to those hiring moves.

No question. Walerius and MacIntyre are clearly doing an unbelievable job. 

The previous recruiting guy, David Stenklyft, is at Colorado State.

[GTWT]

2 hours ago, Caw Caw said:

Yeah, i'd love to be a fly on that wall and see what those two new staffers are doing that the others weren't. I mean clearly there is merit to those hiring moves.

Before we get too excited let's see if all these three stars contribute more to the success of their team than the lower rated players they replace.  The proof is in the pudding.

[greenminer]

14 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Before we get too excited let's see if all these three stars contribute more to the success of their team than the lower rated players they replace.  The proof is in the pudding.

Well, if you look at national averages, the proof is already there. Does that translate to us? Not guaranteed, but I like the idea of having 2 or 3 classes in a row that are in line with the 2019 verbals.

[GTWT]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Well, if you look at national averages, the proof is already there. Does that translate to us? Not guaranteed, but I like the idea of having 2 or 3 classes in a row that are in line with the 2019 verbals.

I think I would rather have 2 or 3 classes in a row are in line with Mason Fine's class.

 

By the way, I'm not putting down the 2019 class.  They seem like solid recruits & I trust UNT coaches to find kids that fit NT's schemes & who are motivated to succeed at UNT.  I just couldn't care less how many stars a fat guy in Minneapolis gave them.

Edited September 8, 2018 by GTWT

[97and03]

4 hours ago, GTWT said:

I think I would rather have 2 or 3 classes in a row are in line with Mason Fine's class.

 

By the way, I'm not putting down the 2019 class.  They seem like solid recruits & I trust UNT coaches to find kids that fit NT's schemes & who are motivated to succeed at UNT.  I just couldn't care less how many stars a fat guy in Minneapolis gave them.

Seems we are getting guys with solid offers

[TheReal_jayD]

7 hours ago, UNT Mean Green said:

No question. Walerius and MacIntyre are clearly doing an unbelievable job. 

The previous recruiting guy, David Stenklyft, is at Colorado State.

They are doing an amazing job!!! The improvements are astronomical

[greenminer]

Fine going deep. My guess is they want to help open up the run game. If they connect, bonus

[GTWT]

2 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Seems we are getting guys with solid offers

We got Fine with no other FBS offers.  That seems to be working okay.

[97and03]

24 minutes ago, GTWT said:

We got Fine with no other FBS offers.  That seems to be working okay.

Exception, not the rule.

[GTWT]

15 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Exception, not the rule.

Example, not just an exception.

[Cerebus]

46 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Example, not just an exception.

Plural of ancedote is not evidence.

 

I think it's funny that people think some random writer is making up these ratings.  They come from coaching staffs who feed them info.

[GTWT]

46 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Plural of ancedote is not evidence.

 

I think it's funny that people think some random writer is making up these ratings.  They come from coaching staffs who feed them info.

I have too much respect for you to think you believe Mason Fine is the only example of a two-star or un-starred player who was successful.   

As for the coaching staffs who feed that info to the raters, which players do you think they're going to tout?  Maybe the players they expect to sign?  That might make them look real good to their fans.

[Cerebus]

2 minutes ago, GTWT said:

I have too much respect for you to think you believe Mason Fine is the only example of a two-star or un-starred player who was successful.   

http://footballscoop.com/news/stars-matter-recruiting-data-says/

There are what, twenty thousand two star and below hs seniors every year.  A very, very small percentage will ever become high level contributers at the college level.  At the opposite end, the majority of 4 stars and almost all five stars will.  Three stars is where we need to be making hay.  Much more likely a 3 star contributes instead of a two or below.

 

So yes, there is a chance you can drink and drive home safely, it's a much better plan to not drink and drive, the chances are better.  

[GTWT]

Golden Rule of Statistics -  Data show what the statisticians want them to show.

[Cerebus]

18 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Golden Rule of Statistics -  Data show what the statisticians want them to show.

I've never seen any data to prove stars don't matter.

[GTWT]

4 hours ago, Cerebus said:

I've never seen any data to prove stars don't matter.

Statistics support, not prove.

[FirefightnRick]

17 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Statistics support, not prove.

So the science isn't settled after all.  Who knew?

 

Rick