It may be time to look into expanding Apogee

[ADLER]

I know there is the "keep selling it out first" argument, and I hear you, but you're wrong.

But, having a 30K stadium and a 28K fan base is going to keep regional P5 schools from wanting to schedule games at Apogee. The costs of not expanding Apogee may therefore exceed the costs of expansion through lost revenue. 

One of the main reasons schools would schedule UNT is to provide a game in the metroplex that their DFW fans and alumni can attend. Unlike SMU we do not have a practically empty stadium to offer.

Where would the fans of Baylor, Kansas State, Texas Tech, A&M, or TCU sit if we were to schedule them? North Texas was able to host Baylor, Kansas State, and TCU at Fouts Field because we had a relatively small fan base at the time. That is simply not he case now. Games against Texas Tech and A&M were diverted to the Cowboys Stadium because our own stadium couldn't accommodate the crowds. We certainly don't want to have to do that again.

Growing pains. What a great thing to have.

View full article

Edited September 4, 2018 by ADLER

[97and03]

Where is that cart before the horse graphic...

[ADLER]

It's right behind the failing to plan is planning to fail graphic.

[golfingomez]

no... 

Even taking into account your argument about scheduling the P5's for 1 (maybe 2 games?) a year, that would only apply to Texas or Oklahoma schools. Realistically, only OK St, Baylor, Tech, TCU and maaayyyyyybe A&M would give us a home game. 

Additionally, we are living in a world where college football attendance is dwindling across the board, expanding without the excessive need would seem to be a large expense for little return. 

Keep Apogee the same size and just turn it into a hot ticket.

[meangreanmick]

Would rather have baseball first.

[ADLER]

Quote

Additionally, we are living in a world where college football attendance is dwindling across the board

No, it's not. College football attendance has actually increased at most schools. The AVERAGE ATTENDANCE for FBS football has fallen because of all the schools that have been reclassified to FBS and their sparse attendance. CUSA and the Sun Belt are full of schools that have moved to FBS in that timeframe and none of these newbies (including us) matches the average of the pre-existing FBS schools.

[greenjoe]

Does anyone know the cost of adding an upper deck on the student side ?

 

[Silent Eagle]

2 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

Does anyone know the cost of adding an upper deck on the student side ?

 

So, so very tempted to make a joke right now. 

[UNT Mean Green]

1 hour ago, ADLER said:

I know there is the "keep selling it out first" argument, and I hear you, but you're wrong.

But, having a 30K stadium and a 28K fan base is going to keep regional P5 schools from wanting to schedule games at Apogee. The costs of not expanding Apogee may therefore exceed the costs of expansion through lost revenue. 

One of the main reasons schools would schedule UNT is to provide a game in the metroplex that their DFW fans and alumni can attend. Unlike SMU we do not have a practically empty stadium to offer.

Where would the fans of Baylor, Kansas State, Texas Tech, A&M, or TCU sit if we were to schedule them? North Texas was able to host Baylor, Kansas State, and TCU at Fouts Field because we had a relatively small fan base at the time. That is simply not he case now. Games against Texas Tech and A&M were diverted to the Cowboys Stadium because our own stadium couldn't accommodate the crowds. We certainly don't want to have to do that again.

Growing pains. What a great thing to have.

We have to generate more consistent demand where annual season attendance averages a sellout prior to even considering an expansion.

[Wag Tag]

Use a neutral site for awhile! 

[ADLER]

Quote

Does anyone know the cost of adding an upper deck on the student side ?

No, but THEY do, and THEY"RE the ones adding the deck.

All kidding aside, its something that should be looked into but construction would still be several years away.

We don't host Texas Tech until 2027. Maybe we can get some other regional P5's scheduled in the meantime.

TCU's contract with SMU expires after next year. That may be an opportunity to get a couple of games, but would almost certainly be contingent upon us having the stadium expanded. Unlike SMU we do not have an empty stadium to offer.

[ADLER]

Quote

We have to generate more consistent demand where annual season attendance averages a sellout prior to even considering an expansion.

That theory is exactly how we got stuck in the Fouts Field rut for 60 years. Don't improve obsolete facilities unless they are constantly sold out. We already know that Apogee is not large enough for us to host the type of games we want. Why not plan accordingly?

[ADLER]

Quote

Use a neutral site for awhile! 

Where? Using Jerryworld is cost prohibitive and there are not any other options.

[keith]

1 hour ago, ADLER said:

I know there is the "keep selling it out first" argument, and I hear you, but you're wrong.

But, having a 30K stadium and a 28K fan base is going to keep regional P5 schools from wanting to schedule games at Apogee. The costs of not expanding Apogee may therefore exceed the costs of expansion through lost revenue. 

One of the main reasons schools would schedule UNT is to provide a game in the metroplex that their DFW fans and alumni can attend. Unlike SMU we do not have a practically empty stadium to offer.

Where would the fans of Baylor, Kansas State, Texas Tech, A&M, or TCU sit if we were to schedule them? North Texas was able to host Baylor, Kansas State, and TCU at Fouts Field because we had a relatively small fan base at the time. That is simply not he case now. Games against Texas Tech and A&M were diverted to the Cowboys Stadium because our own stadium couldn't accommodate the crowds. We certainly don't want to have to do that again.

Growing pains. What a great thing to have.

Agree that we should be planning for the future.  Future schedules are planned way in advance.  I don't know if you can justify expanding the stadium just to host 1 OOC regional P5 opponent game a season which is probably all we're talking about in the current alignment.   What would we need, another 10K to 15K seats to lure these teams to Apogee?  Of course, there's no guarantee that those fans actually travel and show up.   However, if it's to setup for the next round of conference re-alignment and we're talking 5 or 6 games a season that need those seats, now you're talking.  One thing for certain is we'd need a lot more parking and much better traffic management to handle another 10-15 thousand fans attending games.  Apparently, we need a lot more pizza too...hahahaha!!

[Wag Tag]

I had thought the piers and foundation are set for an addition to the student side? With the IPF set the next $$ item is expanding the Athletic Building and relocating the Biiiiig Screen. GMG 

[MeanGreenHoops]

I'm definitely in the lets wait until this thing has 15,00 season tickets and you can't get tickets to a game camp, I had another question.

Why are we concerned if there are enough seats for some others schools fans to sit in? I don't think other colleges are building stadiums big enough to be overrun by the opposing teams t-shirt fans once a year.

I'm guessing the answer is so we can host them, but I don't think the reason we can't host them is because there aren't enough empty seats for their fans is it really? Seems weird.

 

[GrandGreen]

The bigs are not playing at Apogee because of the size of the stadium.  They seldom play away anywhere against a G5, because it makes no financial sense.  They can pay $1m+ and get a home game with no return and make a lot more money and a lot less risk of losing. 

[UNTLifer]

I think, and I am sure this has already been done, that the AD should have plans ready to roll when the need arises, but I don't think we are there yet.  If we continue to have 29,000 plus for the remaining home games, then yes, this should be considered.  The top of the tail section will always be a tough sell unless we are playing a name opponent.  If we draw 25,000+ this weekend, then something is up.

[Aldo]

Anyone know offhand what's the average available seating for a midmajor stadjum?

[GreenTexan13]

SOrry, but I don't agree with this. We still have not sold out Apogee.... We need to have the issue of selling out first, then start making blueprints for more seats. 

We have taken steps in the right direction. Bringing in Cal, Texas Tech in 2027, and a respectable G5 who has an amazing traveling fan base (Houston) to Apogee in the future. We'll see a sell out if we keep up some winning, but now is not the time to start construction.

Edited September 4, 2018 by GreenTexan13

[DentonLurker]

I can’t remember who, but I heard a P5 AD once say that he wanted a third of his stadium to be sold out from season tickets. For Apogee, that number equates to approximately 10k. Last I heard, we were still under 5k. That seems like a fair target to me. Once we get there and actually have a sellout or two under our belt and we have strung together some sustained success on the field, I would agree it’s time to consider expansion. Until then, just win!

I agree with the comment that you don’t add seats to cater to visiting team fans. When Texas travels to USC, do you really think the administration at USC is concerned about seating for Texas fans? If anything, they’re trying to figure out how to get more USC fans in the building to keep Texas fans out.

[Wag Tag]

44 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

The bigs are not playing at Apogee because of the size of the stadium.  They seldom play away anywhere against a G5, because it makes no financial sense.  They can pay $1m+ and get a home game with no return and make a lot more money and a lot less risk of losing. 

TCU at SMU .. Tech has also been.. now maybe they are paying big $$$ to get them there. 

 

[oldguystudent]

This clearly is an issue of simply raising the student athletic fee. 

[greenminer]

I thought expansion was already being planned for, it was just a matter of seeing the right attendance numbers (80%? 90%?)

[North Texas Shep]

Nope. Not at all. Thanks