Super Bowl - 13 Years Ago

[DeepGreen]

What has changed in America since then?

http://wallythekat.tripod.com/A_Pages/AA-Videos-YOU-Tube/NFL.html

 

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Kaepernick .... He should have been told then " You did it once, ok."      second time you are terminated or at least suspended for several games without pay. ...   They have a point BUT on the job including mine .... one does not protest on the worksite... (football fields are job-sites).....  Away from there .... protest all you want.  Bosses ( owners, coaches, managers, supervisors) control job-sites and set up standards including dress-code.... I can't wear speedos, not that I want to...or get really political ... or come across as a religious fanatic... . 

My view of last year was--- the players the first week of it were jerks..... then the President should have kept his mouth shut ... It was not a protest of the Flag or of the military as he claimed but  of public and sometimes terrible police treatment... After that ... Players protested HIM after calling them obscene names and more....Then it got out of hand.... If owners had spoken up the first week it happened and said they would suspend people with-out pay (after first week) then it likely would have been over or close to it.... . The problem is they wanted to win so much they did near nothing. 

 

I hope some of you younger ones saw 60 min this week .... I saw some bad and unjust  things when young but nothing like had gone on earlier.. . I was a kid in the 50's and things were quite different than now... 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

Have the government stop paying for these nationalistic advertisements of patriotism. 

https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/12de6dcb-d8d8-4a58-8795-562297f948c1/tackling-paid-patriotism-oversight-report.pdf

NFL thinks players showing their patriotism in other ways is getting in the way of the patriotic shows that the government pays for.   (yes, kneeling can be a sign of respecting our free speech rights)  

No one gave a crap when the blessed Tebow knelt during anthems. Get out of the 'defining' what is patriotic. Quit wanting your players to be community leaders, but limiting how you want them to speak about the issues that affect their communities.

Get out of the 'defining' what is patriotic .. and let it be organic. If things are good, people will be patriotic and show it at all times. If you have to pay for it, things are obviously something is wrong. Fix the real problem. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[UNTFan23]

1 hour ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Have the government stop paying for these nationalistic advertisements of patriotism. 

https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/12de6dcb-d8d8-4a58-8795-562297f948c1/tackling-paid-patriotism-oversight-report.pdf

NFL thinks players showing their patriotism in other ways is getting in the way of the patriotic shows that the government pays for.   (yes, kneeling can be a sign of respecting our free speech rights)  

No one gave a crap when the blessed Tebow knelt during anthems. Get out of the 'defining' what is patriotic. Quit wanting your players to be community leaders, but limiting how you want them to speak about the issues that affect their communities.

Get out of the 'defining' what is patriotic .. and let it be organic. If things are good, people will be patriotic and show it at all times. If you have to pay for it, things are obviously something is wrong. Fix the real problem. 

Snopes says your assertion is false.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

I appreciate you using Snopes, sincerely, but I did not claim he knelt for the abortion topic. Never did, didn't even imply it. I didn't know that claim was a claim - I am not on Facebook - so I miss out on so many important memes. 

I said he knelt. Which he did. Which I remember thinking as interesting at the time. Which is my point. The act of standing or not standing is *not* the problem. People are trying to place actions or implied inaction as a form of disrespect to the country as a whole.

Quit trying to say what is or is not patriotic for a moment that really, is personal. During the anthem, typically a person is calm, quiet and introspective. Sometimes I see players obviously not paying attention -- they just want to get to the damn game. I don't throw a fit because they aren't paying attention. Sometimes it see players with earbuds in -- and OMG -- THEY HATE SOLDIERS. 

No- let them do them. Feel patriotic how they want.  

[UNTFan23]

1 minute ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

I appreciate you using Snopes, sincerely, but I did not claim he knelt for the abortion topic. Never did, didn't even imply it. I didn't know that claim was a claim - I am not on Facebook - so I miss out on so many important memes. 

I said he knelt. Which he did. Which I remember thinking as interesting at the time. Which is my point. The act of standing or not standing is *not* the problem. People are trying to place actions or implied inaction as a form of disrespect to the country as a whole.

Quit trying to say what is or is not patriotic for a moment that really, is personal. During the anthem, typically a person is calm, quiet and introspective. Sometimes I see players obviously not paying attention -- they just want to get to the damn game. I don't throw a fit because they aren't paying attention. Sometimes it see players with earbuds in -- and OMG -- THEY HATE SOLDIERS. 

No- let them do them. Feel patriotic how they want.  

No, you said he knelt during the anthem which Tebow himself said he never did. Here's a USAT article actually interviewing him on that very subject.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

23 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

No, you said he knelt during the anthem which Tebow himself said he never did. Here's a USAT article actually interviewing him on that very subject.

Ah, well, there you go. I had not seen that USAT quote.  I remember him kneeling pre-game, I guess I need to take his word that he didn't do it DURING the anthem. Thanks for the article with his quote. 

The snopes article you posted didn't indicate he never knelt during the anthem. It just said he knelt for a different reason and don't conflate the issues -- since it is disingenuous. Which I didn't do. I didn't claim he was kneeling for the reason the snopes article was written.. 

My point stands - regardless of that nitpick. My bad - he did NOT kneel during the anthem. I won't claim otherwise. 

I don't look a player that happens to adjust their cup during the anthem as a sign of unpatriotism. People need to stop. The government needs to stop hyping up patriotism by spending our tax dollars on flyovers, fake surprise reunions on the sideline, etc. etc. That is my point. 

Tebow even indicates he understands:

“I think when people believe in something and they stand for that, I don’t knock them for that,’’ he said. “Even if I agree with some or disagree with some, I appreciate it when people have convictions and they stand for that. I think it’s important how we do that as well. So I think there’s a lot of players that I’m friends with that have been on both sides and I understand it and I think what’s more important is to know their heart and where they’re coming from and where the conviction stands in their heart and what they really want to share.’’

 So knock it off indicating they are doing it to dispect soldiers. It is absurd. Know what is in their heart. Know what their intentions are. Address that... empathize. Quit weaponizing patriotism. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[MeanGreenTexan]

21 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

...

 I think what’s more important is to know their heart and where they’re coming from and where the conviction stands in their heart and what they really want to share.’’

 So knock it off indicating they are doing it to dispect soldiers. It is absurd. Know what is in their heart. Know what their intentions are. Address that... empathize. Quit weaponizing patriotism. 

I cannot agree with this more.

Unfortunately, in America's climate right now, no one wants to listen to anyone's differing opinions, instead, throw a blanket over everyone who thinks differently than them.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

On 8/13/2018 at 3:35 PM, DeepGreen said:

What has changed in America since then?

http://wallythekat.tripod.com/A_Pages/AA-Videos-YOU-Tube/NFL.html

 

How do you even find such a wheels off link? It looks like it is 20 years old.. Who is "wally the kat" ?

I am confused. 
 

Edited August 15, 2018 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[FirefightnRick]

On 8/14/2018 at 12:49 PM, UNTFan23 said:

Snopes says your assertion is false.

Just so you know who your dealing with.

 

Rick

[UNTLifer]

14 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Just so you know who your dealing with.

 

Rick

Or

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

Right right.. "stirring the pot" is the dumb tripod link that was put up there.  Commenting on that stirred pot -- which the link ASKS a question -- is not stirring. 

And moving the goal post? That is stupid. Snopes didn't address what I said. He posted a second article, clearing up a piece of what I said and I corrected it PUBLICLY. More than I can say for either of you two guys that are NEVER wrong. EVER. FAKE NEWS.

Comprehension and humility is important guys. 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[UNTLifer]

Sensitive?  

[UNTLifer]

19 hours ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Right right.. "stirring the pot" is the dumb tripod link that was put up there.  Commenting on that stirred pot -- which the link ASKS a question -- is not stirring. 

And moving the goal post? That is stupid. Snopes didn't address what I said. He posted a second article, clearing up a piece of what I said and I corrected it PUBLICLY. More than I can say for either of you two guys that are NEVER wrong. EVER. FAKE NEWS.

Comprehension and humility is important guys. 

 

 

The "dumb tripod link" is stirring the pot?  Interesting, he just asked a question.  The question being what has changed since that moment prior to the 39th Super Bowl.  I don't think you answered that question.  You shared a piece of legislation from McCain and Flake, BTW appropriate name, wanting to stop government sports marketing, as the DOD called it.

My answer to the question asked above would be a general lack of civility and respect.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

""This is the NFL opening ceremony for Super Bowl 39. No kneeling, no hiding in locker rooms and no trashing America. 

What has happened to our country?"

 

You legitimately don' t think that question is stirring the pot? 

Implying that peaceful protests are 'trashing America?'  Implying these guys are 'hiding' in the locker room?

To answer the question, nothing has changed. The short sighted perception and belief that everything in the past was better (when 'those people' knew their place to shut up). Maybe on the ability to listen to protests and try to understand has changed... 

Just off the top of my head :

1968 Civil Rights protest during anthem at the Olympics 

1971 College athletes refusing to stand during anthem because of Civil Rights

1972 Refusing to stand during the anthem at the Olympics 

1990 Sinead O'Connor refused to play a concert if they played the anthem before the show. She said it was a protest about the increasing censorship in the US

1990? Roseanne Barr crotch grab during anthem -- I guess this is not a protest 

1996 Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf protested during the anthem -- eventually getting booted from the league

2003 Some college players protesting the wars decided to not stand - got some press

2004 Carlos Delgado stopped standing during the anthem - protesting the wars on Muslim countries(?) 

 

.... so I am sure that Super Bowl 39 sitting in the middle of all that ...  is an indication that nothing changed. 

Asking the question, implying that thing HAVE changed, is stirring the pot. 

What changed is the government starting paying for patriotism and it polarized and weaponized patriotism. 

But, given the examples of protests, I am sure you will not agree that this has always happened and it is nothing new. 

[UNTLifer]

"“I’m going to give you the real deal: I’m an American,” the ex-running back said. “I don’t desecrate my flag and my national anthem. I’m not going to do anything against the flag and national anthem. I’m going to work within those situations. But this is my country, and I’ll work out the problems, but I’ll do it in an intelligent manner.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/08/25/jim-brown-says-i-dont-desecrate-my-flag-thinks-colin-kaepernick-should-pick-football-or-activism/?utm_term=.3829796a5e72

 The government using a sports marketing budget to, as you say, pay for patriotism, is not the only thing that has changed.  Mr. Brown, who is far more qualified to talk about activism than any of us, shares his thoughts above which I agree with.

 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

1) I don't see how that quote means more has changed.  It really isn't on topic for what has changed. Since burning flags (protected expression) and sitting during an anthem has been a protest since the beginning of their implementations. Brown's opinion is that *he* won't do it. He operates in a different manner. 

2) How is Jim Brown more qualified to talk about activism then "any of us"? 

Edited August 17, 2018 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[All About UNT]

32 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

1) I don't see how that quote means more has changed.  It really isn't on topic for what has changed. Since burning flags (protected expression) and sitting during an anthem has been a protest since the beginning of their implementations. Brown's opinion is that *he* won't do it. He operates in a different manner. 

2) How is Jim Brown more qualified to talk about activism then "any of us"? 

Great example. A guy who's been arrested roughly 10 times for assaulting people. We should all look to him in his infinite wisdom for guidance through these perilous times

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, All About UNT said:

Great example. A guy who's been arrested roughly 10 times for assaulting people. We should all look to him in his infinite wisdom for guidance through these perilous times

Perilous times?  Tug on the reigns there.  I used his recent comments as an example since he was a known activist, not based on his personal record.

I also didn't use his quotes as an answer to the question, "what has changed..."  I used him and his quotes to show what another, more prominent athlete/activist thought of the actions of Kaepernick and those that have followed his lead.  Sure, there are examples all over history of people/athletes choosing to "protest" against the national anthem/country, but the discussions haven't dragged on like they have with the current situation.  Plus, there wasn't, or I don't recall, the attacks against those that didn't share the same opinion.  Example, Dak Prescott and his recent comments that really don't support the choice players make to not stand.

Comprehension and humility is important guys.

It is a two way street.