Recruiting

[agw0038]

Whats everybody's opinion on how we've been doing recruiting wise?

how do we compare to the rest of the conference? smu? UH? 

How many more years of success do we need before we can really pull recruits away from SMU or UH? 

GMG

[RBP79]

All I see ,seems everyday, in the DMN is who SMU recruited the day before for their 2019 class....no mention of UNT or TCU. Guess we're saving it all for a BIG announcement later................................  

[Wag Tag]

SMU you seems to be killing it! I don’t know how this will relate to the early signing period! Is the Virginia qb still committed?

[EagleMBA]

I'm aware of the positive and negative aspects of such a plan, but I prefer to let others show off while we maintain frequent, secure communications with our intended targets. At the appropriate time, we can swoop down and get them on the dotted line.

[Ben Gooding]

5 hours ago, EagleMBA said:

I'm aware of the positive and negative aspects of such a plan, but I prefer to let others show off while we maintain frequent, secure communications with our intended targets. At the appropriate time, we can swoop down and get them on the dotted line.

No. 

[untjim1995]

Again, Texas HS coaches and parents have seen us have two winning seasons here since 2005. They have seen us have exactly 5 winning seasons here since we moved back up to Division 1-A in 1995. Last year, we beat some good names in La Tech, Army, and Southern Miss, but we also beat the two worst teams in FBS, UTEP and Rice, as well as FCS Lamar. Mix in wins over UAB, ODU, and UTSA, you had a solid 9 win season, but also got boatraced in 4 games (SMU, FAU x2, and Troy) and also got plodded over by Iowa. These recruits aren't going to just change their views of Denton and UNT after one season. Their coaches and parents want to see some stability, not continued monumental losing. Since 2005, we have gone 2-9, 3-9, 2-10, 1-11, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, 4-8, 9-4, 4-8, 1-11, 5-8, and 9-5. That's 50 wins and 109 losses in 13 seasons, covering 5 head coaches. 

Keep winning and you'll see SL leave, but you'll see us get the chance to keep momentum going to keep building in-roads with TX HS coaches and parents. 

[Greendylan]

As of today, 247 has North Texas ranked 78th overall and 3rd in conference for 2019 recruiting.  It's way too early to know how things will shape up in the end, but it looks like the early indicators suggest improvement.

[UNTLifer]

5 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Again, Texas HS coaches and parents have seen us have two winning seasons here since 2005. They have seen us have exactly 5 winning seasons here since we moved back up to Division 1-A in 1995. Last year, we beat some good names in La Tech, Army, and Southern Miss, but we also beat the two worst teams in FBS, UTEP and Rice, as well as FCS Lamar. Mix in wins over UAB, ODU, and UTSA, you had a solid 9 win season, but also got boatraced in 4 games (SMU, FAU x2, and Troy) and also got plodded over by Iowa. These recruits aren't going to just change their views of Denton and UNT after one season. Their coaches and parents want to see some stability, not continued monumental losing. Since 2005, we have gone 2-9, 3-9, 2-10, 1-11, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, 4-8, 9-4, 4-8, 1-11, 5-8, and 9-5. That's 50 wins and 109 losses in 13 seasons, covering 5 head coaches. 

Keep winning and you'll see SL leave, but you'll see us get the chance to keep momentum going to keep building in-roads with TX HS coaches and parents. 

Well, that explains why smuT is loading up.  Oh, wait.

[GrandGreen]

6 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Again, Texas HS coaches and parents have seen us have two winning seasons here since 2005. They have seen us have exactly 5 winning seasons here since we moved back up to Division 1-A in 1995. Last year, we beat some good names in La Tech, Army, and Southern Miss, but we also beat the two worst teams in FBS, UTEP and Rice, as well as FCS Lamar. Mix in wins over UAB, ODU, and UTSA, you had a solid 9 win season, but also got boatraced in 4 games (SMU, FAU x2, and Troy) and also got plodded over by Iowa. These recruits aren't going to just change their views of Denton and UNT after one season. Their coaches and parents want to see some stability, not continued monumental losing. Since 2005, we have gone 2-9, 3-9, 2-10, 1-11, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, 4-8, 9-4, 4-8, 1-11, 5-8, and 9-5. That's 50 wins and 109 losses in 13 seasons, covering 5 head coaches. 

Keep winning and you'll see SL leave, but you'll see us get the chance to keep momentum going to keep building in-roads with TX HS coaches and parents. 

History plays a role, but it certainly doesn't explain why as noted above SMU as usual is clobbering  NT in recruiting at this point.  If history is the key what is it that SMU sells to recruits: that 51-10 bowl loss to La Tech to end last season or their sterling 109-237-3 record since the death penalty? 

We see new coaches all the time come into bad programs and recruit relatively well from the start.   Littrell didn't do this, but the positive is that IMO his recruiting is steadily improving.   I think NT's football recruiting woes are primarily a function of some bad hires and not a function of a lackluster football history. 

[Side Show Joe]

35 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

History plays a role, but it certainly doesn't explain why as noted above SMU as usual is clobbering  NT in recruiting at this point.  If history is the key what is it that SMU sells to recruits: that 51-10 bowl loss to La Tech to end last season or their sterling 109-237-3 record since the death penalty? 

We see new coaches all the time come into bad programs and recruit relatively well from the start.   Littrell didn't do this, but the positive is that IMO his recruiting is steadily improving.   I think NT's football recruiting woes are primarily a function of some bad hires and not a function of a lackluster football history. 

Well, SMU has a history of legally paying their players. Does that count?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Side Show Joe

[MeanGreenZen]

10 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

History plays a role, but it certainly doesn't explain why as noted above SMU as usual is clobbering  NT in recruiting at this point.  If history is the key what is it that SMU sells to recruits: that 51-10 bowl loss to La Tech to end last season or their sterling 109-237-3 record since the death penalty? 

We see new coaches all the time come into bad programs and recruit relatively well from the start.   Littrell didn't do this, but the positive is that IMO his recruiting is steadily improving.   I think NT's football recruiting woes are primarily a function of some bad hires and not a function of a lackluster football history. 

You don’t think Littrell recruited well right out of the gate? He signed a kid who is now the best college quarterback in the state in his very first class! 

[BillySee58]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

You don’t think Littrell recruited well right out of the gate? He signed a kid who is now the best college quarterback in the state in his very first class! 

Fine didn't have any other offers. Didn't take good recruiting skills to get Fine to choose us over walkon offers. It did show tremendous evaluating ability and development.

[MGNation92]

21 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Fine didn't have any other offers. Didn't take good recruiting skills to get Fine to choose us over walkon offers. It did show tremendous evaluating ability and development.

and that's the issue. Our coaches can evaluate really well so far. 

We aren't landing those guys nearly enough.

[GrandGreen]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

You don’t think Littrell recruited well right out of the gate? He signed a kid who is now the best college quarterback in the state in his very first class! 

Littrell signed a lot of good player with Fine being the best.   There are two facets to recruiting, one is identifying players that play division one ball, the other is being able to beat out rivals for players.  Littrell has been great at identifying those players with few offers that can contribute at NT.  What he has not demonstrated is that he can beat out peer programs in recruiting athletes with multiple offers.   

[Tyler Maryak]

4 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

and that's the issue. Our coaches can evaluate really well so far. 

We aren't landing those guys nearly enough.

This. It's being noted more and more that we are offering guys early and then other schools take note and they end up getting a P5 offer or something.

[untjim1995]

19 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Well, that explains why smuT is loading up.  Oh, wait.

I went back and looked at SMU's record over the last 10 years:

2008--1-11 in June Jones first year

2009--8-5, won the Hawaii Bowl over Nevada 45-10

2010--7-7, won CUSA West, lost in CUSA Championship Game at UCF 17-7, then lost Armed Forces Bowl to Army 16-14

2011--8-5, won the Birmingham Bowl over Pitt 28-6

2012--7-6 won the Hawaii Bowl over Fresno State 43-10

2013--5-7

2014--1-11--June Jones resigns after losing to us in Denton 43-6 in second game of the season, finished as worst team in FBS

2015--2-10--first year of Chad Morris, defeated North Texas 31-13, who was the worst team in FBS that season

2016--5-7, beat us 34-21 in Denton in Seth Littrell's first game ever as a head coach

2017--7-6, beat us 54-32 in Dallas, then had Chad Morris leave for Arky, crushed in Frisco Bowl by La Tech, 51-10

They went 51-75, and went 3-2 in bowl games and went 3-1 versus us head-to-head, while playing in a much better conference. Add in SWC legacy, cash, and a private education, and you get their recruiting advantage over us and the other Texas SBCUSA public schools.

[UNTLifer]

Their "private" education is not better than our public. Their $$$ allows them to wow players. Hell, a recent commit to SMU references their 30 for 30 episode even though the point of that episode was the utter corruption that shut down their program for two years. 

[GrandGreen]

45 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I went back and looked at SMU's record over the last 10 years:

2008--1-11 in June Jones first year

2009--8-5, won the Hawaii Bowl over Nevada 45-10

2010--7-7, won CUSA West, lost in CUSA Championship Game at UCF 17-7, then lost Armed Forces Bowl to Army 16-14

2011--8-5, won the Birmingham Bowl over Pitt 28-6

2012--7-6 won the Hawaii Bowl over Fresno State 43-10

2013--5-7

2014--1-11--June Jones resigns after losing to us in Denton 43-6 in second game of the season, finished as worst team in FBS

2015--2-10--first year of Chad Morris, defeated North Texas 31-13, who was the worst team in FBS that season

2016--5-7, beat us 34-21 in Denton in Seth Littrell's first game ever as a head coach

2017--7-6, beat us 54-32 in Dallas, then had Chad Morris leave for Arky, crushed in Frisco Bowl by La Tech, 51-10

They went 51-75, and went 3-2 in bowl games and went 3-1 versus us head-to-head, while playing in a much better conference. Add in SWC legacy, cash, and a private education, and you get their recruiting advantage over us and the other Texas SBCUSA public schools.

SMU has name recognition and conference advantages over NT.  The problem is that SMU is one of the worst programs in D1 and maybe a middle tier G5 program.   

I or nobody else can deny that they have consistently and easily beat NT in recruiting.  They are an area team and that makes them particularly relevant to NT.    That private school advantage is largely myth.  Ask Rice, Tulane, and Vanderbilt.   SMU historically recruit well based on their relative lack of success, but in actuality the gap between SMU and NT is much more do to NT's poor recruiting than SMU's good recruiting.  

[untjim1995]

7 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

SMU has name recognition and conference advantages over NT.  The problem is that SMU is one of the worst programs in D1 and maybe a middle tier G5 program.   

I or nobody else can deny that they have consistently and easily beat NT in recruiting.  They are an area team and that makes them particularly relevant to NT.    That private school advantage is largely myth.  Ask Rice, Tulane, and Vanderbilt.   SMU historically recruit well based on their relative lack of success, but in actuality the gap between SMU and NT is much more do to NT's poor recruiting than SMU's good recruiting.  

But why do we recruit poorly?

[Ben Gooding]

15 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

But why do we recruit poorly?

Coaches. Peroid. 

[MeanGreenZen]

I don’t care how many other offers these recruits have as long as we keep landing in conference championships and bowl games.

[GTWT]

8 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

But why do we recruit poorly?

As long as the players we recruit win, we recruited just fine.

Some of the folks on this board seem to think recruiting is a separate sport from football.  You drool over stars & class rankings.  Dudes, none of that matter.  What matters is winning the games.

Edited June 16, 2018 by GTWT

[Aldo]

On 6/15/2018 at 3:12 PM, untjim1995 said:

I went back and looked at SMU's record over the last 10 years:

Without looking, we probably have a near identical W-L record in that span. Since our move back up to D1, it's probably still near identical.

But you make a good point about how/why SMU can beat UNT in recruiting year after year when not having much to show for it. It's about that cash money. You spend it on coaches. You spend it on recruiting. We don't have near the recruiting budget nor the close proximity to that fine Dallas lifestyle.

• SWC has got nothing to do with it. None of these recruits (or anyone really under the age of 35) care about the SWC.
• SMU has money to spend, and they spend it. Chad Morris was a mediocre coach at SMU, but coming from Clemson had the chops and connections to sell a rebuild to recruits. Sonny Dykes has the chops and connections as well (most recently at Cal, LT, and TCU). 
• The AAC is a quality conference in the eyes of many. They've got some good programs on there that are well regarded and ranked. Not to mention the National Champions.

SMU has got money, location, and conference, and they use it. Even though they still suck.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Aldo

[Harry]

51 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Without looking, we probably have a near identical W-L record in that span. Since our move back up to D1, it's probably still near identical.

But you make a good point about how/why SMU can beat UNT in recruiting year after year when not having much to show for it. It's about that cash money. You spend it on coaches. You spend it on recruiting. We don't have near the recruiting budget nor the close proximity to that fine Dallas lifestyle.

• SWC has got nothing to do with it. None of these recruits (or anyone really under the age of 35) care about the SWC.
• SMU has money to spend, and they spend it. Chad Morris was a mediocre coach at SMU, but coming from Clemson had the chops and connections to sell a rebuild to recruits. Sonny Dykes has the chops and connections as well (most recently at Cal, LT, and TCU). 
• The AAC is a quality conference in the eyes of many. They've got some good programs on there that are well regarded and ranked. Not to mention the National Champions.

SMU has got money, location, and conference, and they use it. Even though they still suck.

You are right on target.  They make a very good presentation, outstanding facilities (sports and academic) etc.  And their academics are strong and getting stronger.  The dollar value of their education is high (55-60K vs. 24K annually for us).  But the biggest thing is they take good care of their own.  We could do a better job of that.   I would not put it to an A&M level, but SMU grads will hire other SMU grads.  And being in the Dallas market doesn't hurt for job prospects.

One interesting thing is they are not to my understanding a Tier I Carnegie research university.  We are.  Also, for a public school or inner city prospect, SMU has to create an artificial bubble to make them feel at home.  I don't think it works.  You routinely have freshmen at SMU driving around Mercedes and throwing around stupid money.  I think UNT appeals to a more diverse group of student athletes.

The other thing is, their size (10-11K total enrollment) allows them to do some of the things it is harder for us to do at close to 40K enrollment. 

SMU is going to be a tough nut to crack in recruiting but it doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying.

[greenminer]

3 hours ago, Aldo said:

• SWC has got nothing to do with it. None of these recruits (or anyone really under the age of 35) care about the SWC.

I've been having this thought, but didn't want to piss people off by posting it.  You're a braver man than I, sir.