Distancing ourselves from Army rivalry is still a head scratcher to me...

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, GTWT said:

They don't deny science....because the science is final.

FIFY

 

Rick

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, GTWT said:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ..."

Adolf Hitler
 

Hitler knew as much about Christ's message as he did how to win a world war.   ...not nearly enough.

Sorry if not everyone is on board with macro evolutionary theory, which according to "accepted science theory" (your words), is entirely predicated on one of the worst scientific theories out there: Miller-Urey.   If you can believe in that theory, you have more faith than I do.

[GTWT]

6 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

FIFY

 

Rick

Rick,

It's unethical to purposefully attribute a quote to someone who never said it.  I had thought you were better than that.

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Hitler knew as much about Christ's message as he did how to win a world war.   ...not nearly enough.

Sorry if not everyone is on board with macro evolutionary theory, which according to "accepted science theory" (your words), is entirely predicated on one of the worst scientific theories out there: Miller-Urey.   If you can believe in that theory, you have more faith than I do.

MGT,

Miller-Urey is research into how life may have began.  Evolutionary theory is concerned with how life changed and diversified once it was here.

It is hard to 'predicate' a theory that was first elaborated in 1859 on research that was conducted in the 1950s.

Also, it's best to describe the Miller-Urey conjecture as a 'hypothesis', in science the word 'theory' means something very different.

[oldguystudent]

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Hitler knew as much about Christ's message as he did how to win a world war.   ...not nearly enough.

 

I hate debating you on these matters because I have a great deal of respect for you.  

This particular argument is the No True Scotsman fallacy. 

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, GTWT said:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ..."

Adolf Hitler
 

Saint Maximillian Kolbe probably doesn't believe that Adolf Hitler felt this way in his heart...just like anyone with even an ounce of common sense of history.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, oldguystudent said:

I hate debating you on these matters because I have a great deal of respect for you.  

This particular argument is the No True Scotsman fallacy. 

As do I for you sir!  And I certainly don't see it as a "debate", rather, a discussion!
If there weren't scriptures, then yeah!  It's all a fallacy.  Because it would be up to every person to make up what they believe to be correct... as it appears Hitler, and many many others throughout history, have done/still do.
Thankfully though, it's plainly written out for us.  Unfortunately, Hitler did not care much for nearing himself to God's Word, rather, leaning on his own understanding.
However, in Christ's own words: Luke 24:46-47
Then, Paul bluntly lays it out in Romans 1:16.
There is no evidence anywhere that Christ implored anyone to "summon men to fight" against His chosen people. Ever.  Instead, the exact opposite is observed.

"No True Scottsman" equates both parties as proven "Scotsmen" (both men undeniably from Scotland). 
I would not consider Hitler's admissions/understanding as undeniably Christian, because they are not congruent with the baseline of scripture.
He can claim to be one... but I could also run down an airport runway with my arms outstretched claiming to be an airplane, then say, "no true airplane would have an engine".  The simple fact is, I'm not undeniably an airplane, so I can't speak to "true airplanes".

This thread has definitely jumped to Eagles Nest territory though.
 

25 minutes ago, GTWT said:

MGT,

Miller-Urey is research into how life may have began.  Evolutionary theory is concerned with how life changed and diversified once it was here.

It is hard to 'predicate' a theory that was first elaborated in 1859 on research that was conducted in the 1950s.

Also, it's best to describe the Miller-Urey conjecture as a 'hypothesis', in science the word 'theory' means something very different.

How can life 'diversify' from less-than-single-celled organisms without having a beginning?  That's what I mean by "predicate". 
Miller-Urey is the accepted 'hypothesis'/'theory' (whatever you want to call it) among scientists for the beginnings of life, despite several irreproducible conditions within the research.

[CMJ]

Miller-Urey and the No True Scotsman fallacy mentioned in the same thread....on a rivalry with Army no less.

 

GMG.com never lets me down.

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, GTWT said:

Rick,

It's unethical to purposefully attribute a quote to someone who never said it.  I had thought you were better than that.

Gone To West Tanchon,

Its also against the football  board rules to spew your secular politics...yet here you are.

 

Rick

 

Edit:I see this has finally been moved, so now I might can freely post my views without having my posts removed?

Edited May 22, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[GTWT]

2 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Saint Maximillian Kolbe probably doesn't believe that Adolf Hitler felt this way in his heart...just like anyone with even an ounce of common sense of history.

I wish I were capable, like Saint Maximillian Kolbe & yourself, to see what people feel in their hearts.  I can only judge by what Hitler said & wrote.  It seems to me that Hitler used his Christianity to justify his hatred of Jews.  That seems reasonable.  Religion has been used to justify lots of meanness. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, GTWT said:

I wish I were capable, like Saint Maximillian Kolbe & yourself, to see what people feel in their hearts.  I can only judge by what Hitler said & wrote.  It seems to me that Hitler used his Christianity to justify his hatred of Jews.  That seems reasonable.  Religion has been used to justify lots of meanness. 

Indeed.  Sadly.

[GTWT]

In response to MeanGreenTexan:

How can life 'diversify' from less-than-single-celled organisms without having a beginning?  That's what I mean by "predicate".

Life had a beginning.  That's the subject of abiogenesis.  Evolutionary theory is about the diversification of life once it began. 
 

Miller-Urey is the accepted 'hypothesis'/'theory' (whatever you want to call it) among scientists for the beginnings of life, despite several irreproducible conditions within the research.

No.  The Miller-Urey hypothesis is not accepted by most biologists today.  Their experimental conditions were based on assumptions about Earth's early atmosphere that are today known to be wrong.  Research into abiogenesis continues today.  There is still a great deal of discussion and debate and certainly the matter isn't settled.  What every scientist does agree with is that however early life arose magic wasn't involved.

[MeanGreenTexan]

8 minutes ago, GTWT said:

In response to MeanGreenTexan:

...  What every scientist does agree with is that however early life arose magic wasn't involved.

Wow!  We're in agreement! 
See, I knew we could do it!

As for Miller-Urey, that theory was taught to me at our beloved University circa-15 years ago as the accepted theory, similarly to Macroevolution.  When did this change?  I'm glad it did.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Falwell and bunch always came across as very intolerant of those who had different beliefs of anything... and Liberty is his "baby".

I even remember and saw him  on TV blame America's sinfulness for 9-11, not the terrorists. . I even heard one of his "preacher" buddies on radio urging people to go there and not those infidel public universities and compared community colleges to barber/beauty schools. 

  I don't want to have any part of giving them any credibility on anything. . 

Edited May 22, 2018 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[GTWT]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Wow!  We're in agreement! 
See, I knew we could do it!

As for Miller-Urey, that theory was taught to me at our beloved University circa-15 years ago as the accepted theory, similarly to Macroevolution.  When did this change?  I'm glad it did.

I'm not sure which beloved professor in the beloved department of biology at our beloved university taught that but she/he was wrong.  It's been known for a long time that the conditions of the early Earth were different from what Miller & Urey assumed.  Ideas in science change with new data, or with new interpretations of old data, that's the nature of science.  

One of the most active current researchers in abiogenesis is Jack Szostak of Harvard.  He has an HHMI lecture on the subject that is informative:

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

17 minutes ago, GTWT said:

I'm not sure which beloved professor in the beloved department of biology at our beloved university taught that but she/he was wrong.  ...

 

That would be Dr. Earl Zimmerman.

[GTWT]

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

That would be Dr. Earl Zimmerman.

My major professor.  I now blame you for misunderstanding his lecture (😃).

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, GTWT said:

My major professor.  I now blame you for misunderstanding his lecture (😃).

Also my major, hence we both had classes with him. 🙂 
Not misunderstood, that was the only theory/hypothesis presented. 
Nothing else even presented as 'pseudoscience' (and he loved poking at Christians, as you'll likely recall), or 'ongoing research'.

[GTWT]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Also my major, hence we both had classes with him. 🙂 
Not misunderstood, that was the only theory/hypothesis presented. 
Nothing else even presented as 'pseudoscience' (and he loved poking at Christians, as you'll likely recall), or 'ongoing research'.

Lots of good memories.  Earl is still a good friend.  Did you stay in biology?

[Stix]

18 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I would like to see a season playing the following:  BYU, SMU, Baylor, Notre Dame, Liberty, Presbyterian College, Texas Wesleyan, Cal Lutheran, Abilene Christian, St. Mary's, TCU and Incarnate Word.  That should cover most of the bases.

If we consider basketball (or baseball, some time in the future), we could include Yeshiva University. 😋

[MeanGreenTexan]

32 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Lots of good memories.  Earl is still a good friend.  Did you stay in biology?

Had an internship in Healthcare IT while in school. 
Stayed employed there to provide for my new wife who was still at UNT, rather than go do post-grad schooling to dig a deeper financial hole. 
Remain there to this day. Clinical Lab stuff is much different than Research Lab, but the lingo remains, so I use it some...

[GTWT]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Had an internship in Healthcare IT while in school. 
Stayed employed there to provide for my new wife who was still at UNT, rather than go do post-grad schooling to dig a deeper financial hole. 
Remain there to this day. Clinical Lab stuff is much different than Research Lab, but the lingo remains, so I use it some...

Good career move.  Have a skill that people need & make your niche.

[letsgiveacheer]

19 hours ago, Stix said:

If we consider basketball (or baseball, some time in the future), we could include Yeshiva University. 😋

 

Ikey, Mikey, Jakey, Sam
We’re the boys that eat no ham,
We play baseball, we play soccer,
We keep matzos in our lockers
Aye, Yiye, Yiye, Yiye  Yeshiva!