Men's Golf

TreeFiddy · April 30, 2018

Stracke has built a nationally ranked program that has received multiple large bids to the regional tournament. His goal is not to build a team of local players. His goal is to build a nationally recognized and ranked program.

Using SMU and UTA as examples kind of reinforces Stracke's strategy because UNT's (66) golf team is ranked higher than both SMU (85) and UTA (117), even with the stumble at the conference tournament.

shootermcgavin44 · May 1, 2018

8 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

You know what??? John Hedlund is not the most "personable" coach going either and can be pretty tough on players and parents, but his record stands for itself. He CARES about his players and wants them to be the best they can be...and he gets a lot of "local" recruits. Coach Hedlund gets great local players because he has built a winning program. A program that quality local players want to play for during college. It was not always this way. It takes time...it takes a coach that stays long enough to build such a program. It takes resources, it takes work.

This "international student vs local" is always intriguing to me. Take a look at our tennis team if you want to see a program loaded with internationals. Why? Well, I asked Coach Lama that very question...his response? Local (US) players ranked high enough to compete at the level the program would like do not, as yet, want to come to UNT. Why? The program has not won enough and is not "known" enough as yet as a top US program. There are so few highly ranked US players in HS that the top programs can scoop them up leaving the lower ranked US players for programs like UNT at this point. So, you go international and recruit players over the internet based on their international rankings...at least that is where the recruiting game for our international tennis players starts in most cases. The same can be, for the most part, said for golf. UNT used to be a "destination" golf program for the best local golfers around. Not the case right now. However, that IS beginning to change...with the help of a great new facility for golf, some success on the course and some increased support from the Athletic Department (along with some donor support). Once UNT starts winning on a more consistent basis and getting the team...as well as individual golfers...into the NCAA's things will change and more ranked "local golfers" will want to play for UNT. The idea that the coach is tough or rough on players and their parents is a "problem" only for as few. If you think it will be a reason the program never wins you are sadly mistaken...want proof? Check out Okie State's program under Mike Holder. Holder had a reputation as one of the toughest and no nonsense coaches in college golf...tough...very...on his players and parents alike. But, OSU won...still does...and players, both local and international flocked to the program.

Want to read a great golf book that talks about Holder and the OSU program...and a local donor Family and players as well? Check out "The Last Putt" by Neil Hayes and Brian Murphy. The sub title is" Two Teams, One Dream, and a Freshman named Tiger". Great read about the Stanford and OSU golf teams and the stark differences between the two head coaches and their approaches to building championship programs. In it you will also read about "international players". OSU has utilized quite a few (and still does), It traces the 1995 year that changed college golf. Great read regarding the Woods family and the Kuehne family Anyway...the book is out of print, but can probably be found where I found it...Amazon's book search site....if you are interested.

Is Brad Stracke the coach to lead us back to national prominence? I have no clue, but I do know the program has moved in a winning direction since he came to UNT. The internal workings I know nothing about, but I do know that the results, be they due to local or international players, are moving in the right direction once again. Time will tell if Coach Stracke is "the guy" or not. But, if he isn't it will not be because he did not recruit "local players" or that he has a reputation as a "tough coach to deal with" from a HS coach standpoint.

Win more CUSA championships, get to the NCAA's more often, get more of your player to the PGA Tour, etc., and the "gee the local HS coaches and local players don't like him" stuff falls by the wayside because UNT has become a destination program...like Okie State before Holder...during Holder...and after Holder.

Hedlund uses his connections as a high school club coach to develop those relationships and he recruits DFW very well.

Ask any UNT golfer past or present that has played for him what they think about him and you are going to get pretty much the same answer. It's why his reputation is what it is in Texas (Texas kids talk to each other) and why he has to scour the corners of the earth to get golfers. DFW has the best high school golf in the country and it's just foolish that UNT doesn't use it to their advantage.

meangreenJW · May 1, 2018

13 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

Hedlund uses his connections as a high school club coach to develop those relationships and he recruits DFW very well.

Ask any UNT golfer past or present that has played for him what they think about him and you are going to get pretty much the same answer. It's why his reputation is what it is in Texas (Texas kids talk to each other) and why he has to scour the corners of the earth to get golfers. DFW has the best high school golf in the country and it's just foolish that UNT doesn't use it to their advantage.

Not sure I understand your take here. Stracke consistently finishes tanked top 75 nationally (in golfstat). Ranked #66 now. That's higher than any other team UNT consistently finishes. Even women's soccer's rpi ranking isn't consistently as high. Hopefully, they can take the next stop and consistently finish top 50. But arguable men's golf has been our most successful sport the last few years (with women's soccer being the other team in the conversation). I give women's soccer the nod but it's a debatable conversation in my opinion.

Edited May 1, 2018 by meangreenJW

outoftown · May 1, 2018

15 hours ago, meangreenJW said:

Not sure I understand your take here. Stracke consistently finishes tanked top 75 nationally (in golfstat). Ranked #66 now. That's higher than any other team UNT consistently finishes. Even women's soccer's rpi ranking isn't consistently as high. Hopefully, they can take the next stop and consistently finish top 50. But arguable men's golf has been our most successful sport the last few years (with women's soccer being the other team in the conversation). I give women's soccer the nod but it's a debatable conversation in my opinion.

I would say that womens tennis should also be in the conversation (with exception of this year). But I agree with your general point.

outoftown · May 1, 2018

17 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

Ask any UNT golfer past or present that has played for him what they think about him and you are going to get pretty much the same answer. It's why his reputation is what it is in Texas (Texas kids talk to each other) and why he has to scour the corners of the earth to get golfers. DFW has the best high school golf in the country and it's just foolish that UNT doesn't use it to their advantage.

I am truly unsure how you mean this. Are you insinuating that coach Stracke is doing things that are ethically questionable? Or are you just saying that he is unpersonable and aloof when it comes to Texas HS golf? The difference in implication would obviously be big.

GrandGreen · May 1, 2018

Men's golf CUSA tourney performance was disappointing, but lets not unnecessarily chastise the coach. The men's golf team overall is one of NT's best and all players that played in the tournament were underclassmen.

Frankly, most of us have no idea how the HC recruits the metroplex. All we have is apparently one person's opinion which may or not be unbiased.

Tennis, softball, swimming and volleyball are other sports that fans have questioned lack of metroplex players recruited.

NT should recruit the best players they can sign. Many point to soccer as an example of how NT should be recruiting the area. Hedlund has an unique network in DFW soccer that other coaches just don't have. He can identify those players with potential and not courted by the soccer powers. I wish NT would get more of the top athletics in the Metroplex in all sports including men's basketball and football.

shootermcgavin44 · May 2, 2018

On 5/1/2018 at 1:56 PM, outoftown said:

I am truly unsure how you mean this. Are you insinuating that coach Stracke is doing things that are ethically questionable? Or are you just saying that he is unpersonable and aloof when it comes to Texas HS golf? The difference in implication would obviously be big.

He's about as likeable and personable as a brick wall. Word travels fast with DFW kids.

TreeFiddy · May 3, 2018

His people skills may leave a lot to be desired, but tier 1 DFW HS golfers were turning their noses at UNT long before Stracke took over.

shootermcgavin44 · May 3, 2018

3 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

His people skills may leave a lot to be desired, but tier 1 DFW HS golfers were turning their noses at UNT long before Stracke took over.

Not true. I know of multiple golfers who were interested in UNT and ended up at Big 12, AAC, and other upper echelon conferences because of the way Stracke treated them when they expressed interest.

UNTLifer · May 3, 2018

19 minutes ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

Not true. I know of multiple golfers who were interested in UNT and ended up at Big 12, AAC, and other upper echelon conferences because of the way Stracke treated them when they expressed interest.

Not what he was stating. Either way, he has improved our program immensely since coming here.

shootermcgavin44 · May 3, 2018

9 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Not what he was stating. Either way, he has improved our program immensely since coming here.

If that is the type of person you want representing your university and turning boys into men then SMH

And those internationals are just awesome. A kid from Flower Mound wouldn't have these issues.

https://www.dentonrc.com/sports/snyman-named-c-usa-golfer-of-the-year/article_9fa86a3b-5f4e-562c-a4a4-0f393b9b6c23.html

TreeFiddy · May 3, 2018

10 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

If that is the type of person you want representing your university and turning boys into men then SMH

And those internationals are just awesome. A kid from Flower Mound wouldn't have these issues.

https://www.dentonrc.com/sports/snyman-named-c-usa-golfer-of-the-year/article_9fa86a3b-5f4e-562c-a4a4-0f393b9b6c23.html

Are you talking about the leading the team in scoring average, being named CUSA player of the year, and being invited to play at regionals problem or a different problem?

Is this a record for the longest GMG.com golf thread ever? Awesome.

greenminer · May 3, 2018

11 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

If that is the type of person you want representing your university and turning boys into men then SMH

And those internationals are just awesome. A kid from Flower Mound wouldn't have these issues.

https://www.dentonrc.com/sports/snyman-named-c-usa-golfer-of-the-year/article_9fa86a3b-5f4e-562c-a4a4-0f393b9b6c23.html

You're trying so hard to drill a point home that you're not really responding to the point of the quotes in your last two posts in this thread.

UNTLifer · May 3, 2018

14 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

A kid from Flower Mound wouldn't have these issues.

https://www.dentonrc.com/sports/snyman-named-c-usa-golfer-of-the-year/article_9fa86a3b-5f4e-562c-a4a4-0f393b9b6c23.html

What issues?

Again, you keeping making vague accusations and then changing directions when asked to be more specific.

shootermcgavin44 · May 3, 2018

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

What issues?

Again, you keeping making vague accusations and then changing directions when asked to be more specific.

Read the article Ace.

Snyman played three seasons for UNT but will not return for his senior year with the Mean Green due to an NCAA rule that prohibits international students from delaying enrolling in college without losing eligibility. Snyman enrolled a semester after he could have begun college at UNT.

UNTLifer · May 4, 2018

That is not a Stracke issue. That is an inane rule by the NCAA, Ace.

Look, I know you don't like him, for whatever reason, but you have thrown out a load of accusations without providing any specifics, as many have mentioned.

TreeFiddy · May 4, 2018

Show us on this doll where Stracke touched you

Image result for shooter mcgavin doll image

shootermcgavin44 · May 5, 2018

23 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

That is not a Stracke issue. That is an inane rule by the NCAA, Ace.

Look, I know you don't like him, for whatever reason, but you have thrown out a load of accusations without providing any specifics, as many have mentioned.

Lol ok, bro.

Next time you are at an AJGA or TJGT tournament, ask a a top level Texas kid about UNT golf.

UNTLifer · May 5, 2018

That's alright. I don't have an issue, you do.

TreeFiddy · May 5, 2018

2 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

Lol ok, bro.

Next time you are at an AJGA or TJGT tournament, ask a a top level Texas kid about UNT golf.

TJGT (Tx Junior Golf Tour), lol. No offense, but UNT appears to be trying to recruit at a level or two (or three) above the TJGT (and LJT).

shootermcgavin44 · May 5, 2018

7 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

TJGT (Tx Junior Golf Tour), lol. No offense, but UNT appears to be trying to recruit at a level or two (or three) above the TJGT (and LJT).

What tour is exactly 3 levels above TJGT?????? Please enlighten me, which high level Texas kids aren't playing TJ's? Noah Goodwin (#1 Junior in the world coming out out high school) is a TJGT alum and joined SMU's team at semester.

Jordan Speith, Patrick Reed, Kelly Kraft, Martin Piller, Bronson Burgoon, Stacy Lewis, all TJGT alum. Ya you're right, no good Texan golfers juniors play in TJ's.

The Legends tour events and TJGT majors are only a small step down from AJGA. I can't wait to hear about this tour 3 steps above.

Edited May 5, 2018 by shootermcgavin44

TreeFiddy · May 5, 2018

7 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

What tour is exactly 3 levels above TJGT?????? Please enlighten me, which high level Texas kids aren't playing TJ's? Noah Goodwin (#1 Junior in the world coming out out high school) is a TJGT alum and joined SMU's team at semester.

Jordan Speith, Patrick Reed, Kelly Kraft, Martin Piller, Bronson Burgoon, Jonatthon Vegas, Stacy Lewis, all TJGT alum. Ya you're right, no good Texan golfers juniors play in TJ's.

Three levels may be a bit hyperbole, but there are clearly two levels within AJGA and the US junior majors plus a select few international events could be considered a third 'tour' (US Am, US Junior, Junior PGA, British AM, country level amateur events, plus a few really elite invitationals). It is actually amazing how many options there are for elite junior golf.

ETA: updated wording

Edited May 5, 2018 by TreeFiddy

shootermcgavin44 · May 5, 2018

15 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

TJGT (Tx Junior Golf Tour), lol. No offense, but UNT appears to be trying to recruit at a level or two (or three) above the TJGT (and LJT).

Recent Texan USGA Amateur and Junior Amateur Champions

Junior Am

2017 Noah Goodwin- TJGT Alum

2014 Will Zalatoris- TJGT Alum

2013 Scottie Schefler- TJGT Alum

2011 - Jordan Speith- TJGT Alum

2009- Jordan Spetih- TJGT Alum

2007- Cory Whitsett- TJGT Alum

US AM

2011- Kelly Kraft- TJGT Alum

2007- Colt Knost- TJGT Alum

Nah top level Texans don't play TJ events. UNT should look for better players than this.

TreeFiddy · May 5, 2018

Just now, shootermcgavin44 said:

Recent Texan USGA Amateur and Junior Amateur Champions

Junior Am

2017 Noah Goodwin- TJGT Alum

2014 Will Zalatoris- TJGT Alum

2013 Scottie Schefler- TJGT Alum

2011 - Jordan Speith- TJGT Alum

2009- Jordan Spetih- TJGT Alum

2007- Cory Whitsett- TJGT Alum

US AM

2011- Kelly Kraft- TJGT Alum

2007- Colt Knost- TJGT Alum

Nah top level Texans don't play TJ events. UNT should look for better players than this.

I am not arguing that those players may have spent some time at some point, typically early in their careers, playing on the state level tours of the time (TJGT, Legends, etc.). Many of those names played NTPGA when they were 8-10. Are you saying that NTPGA is an elite tour just because at one time a player that plays well in college played on that tour at one time early on in their careers?

The story is simple. If UNT is willing to recruit international players, it can get a 4 star player. If UNT only considers local/Texas kids, history shows it can only get 2 star/maybe 3 star players. 4 star players are not typically still playing TJGT as their primary tour when they are a rising senior (and international players are most certainly not playing TJGT). Most have moved on to AJGA and/or national independent events. Rising seniors that are still grinding away on TJGT as their primary tour are probably the equivalent of a 2 or 3 star player. Depending on your program, there is nothing wrong with a solid 2/3 star player. Look at our football/basketball programs. We are thrilled when we get a 3 star player.

shootermcgavin44 · May 6, 2018

1 hour ago, TreeFiddy said:

I am not arguing that those players may have spent some time at some point, typically early in their careers, playing on the state level tours of the time (TJGT, Legends, etc.). Many of those names played NTPGA when they were 8-10. Are you saying that NTPGA is an elite tour just because at one time a player that plays well in college played on that tour at one time early on in their careers?

The story is simple. If UNT is willing to recruit international players, it can get a 4 star player. If UNT only considers local/Texas kids, history shows it can only get 2 star/maybe 3 star players. 4 star players are not typically still playing TJGT as their primary tour when they are a rising senior (and international players are most certainly not playing TJGT). Most have moved on to AJGA and/or national independent events. Rising seniors that are still grinding away on TJGT as their primary tour are probably the equivalent of a 2 or 3 star player. Depending on your program, there is nothing wrong with a solid 2/3 star player. Look at our football/basketball programs. We are thrilled when we get a 3 star player.

Kelly Kraft and Colt Knost both heavily considered UNT and were playing TJGT their junior and senior years. Snyman is a nice player but didn't come close to having the college career that either of those guys had. He has a LONG way to go to even come close to having the professional career that either of those guys have had.

Stracke in the decade he's been here not recruited one local kid out of high school that made a difference.