UNT Spends Least in the State on Recruiting

Ben Gooding · April 10, 2018

1 minute ago, GMG24 said:

What team have we played in the postseason that we should have beat? How can you assert he isn't a "big" game coach when he was coaching with an FCS roster in his first year? I agree we've got to be better in those games, however we lost to FAU who has a loaded roster one I can only hope we can get one day, and Troy who beat LSU in LSU.

You asked the question. I answered the question.

To answer another, we should beat them all. Or at least not get our pants pulled down vs them all?

I think it's safe to say he hasn't proven himself to be a big game coach. I think it's also safe to say there is more evidence that suggests he is not a big game game than being a big game coach. Would you not agree?

forevereagle · April 10, 2018

29 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

You asked the question. I answered the question.

To answer another, we should beat them all. Or at least not get our pants pulled down vs them all?

I think it's safe to say he hasn't proven himself to be a big game coach. I think it's also safe to say there is more evidence that suggests he is not a big game game than being a big game coach. Would you not agree?

I think this depends on how you define what a big game is. Either way, we need to be better in these types of games. He is still only 2 years into being a HC, so I think this is still an area that can be improved upon, and I think improvement has been clear during his time here.

MGNation92 · April 10, 2018

We let teams like ODU, UAB, Army hang around. Front 7 is our main area of need in the worst way. We take all the one score games we won last year and flip them to losses?

UTSA, ODU, UAB, Army, LaTech

That puts us at 4-8 instead of 9-3(without our postseason games included)

MeanGreenTexan · April 10, 2018

53 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

We let teams like ODU, UAB, Army hang around. Front 7 is our main area of need in the worst way. We take all the one score games we won last year and flip them to losses?

UTSA, ODU, UAB, Army, LaTech

That puts us at 4-8 instead of 9-3(without our postseason games included)

UAB, the 2nd place team in C-USA West, and Army, a team that finished the year receiving top 25 votes... Yeah, I would expect those teams to "hang around".

Ad nauseum... ODU was kept in the game by some bone-headed special teams gaffes allowing 2 returns for TDs. Without those returns, that game is not as close as it is (would have been 24 pts for ODU instead of 38).

Not saying we don't need to get better, but we need to keep what happened last season (and against whom) in perspective now that we have the luxury of hindsight. The losses to FAU and Troy were abhorrent. We need to get better, absolutely, but I think people are giving those losses double or triple weight over wins against some damn-fine teams.

DentonLurker · April 10, 2018

2 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

We take all the one score games we won last year and flip them to losses?

UTSA, ODU, UAB, Army, LaTech

That puts us at 4-8 instead of 9-3(without our postseason games included)

You can literally make this argument in every sport, every year... In any given year, wins are wins and losses are losses.

That being said, I agree with this. I would bet Littrell and Co. do too.

2 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

Front 7 is our main area of need in the worst way.

Ben Gooding · April 10, 2018

11 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

You can literally make this argument in every sport, every year... In any given year, wins are wins and losses are losses.

That being said, I agree with this. I would bet Littrell and Co. do too.

You can make that argument for programs that are teetering every year. The good programs don't put themselves in that situation that often. And the bad programs aren't competitive enough to be in that situation. So, silver lining?

UNTLifer · April 11, 2018

There's no reason for us not to be in every game next year. I know that comment frustrates some of you, but I remember predicting 6 wins because I am a "to the bone" NT Homer and wondering if we could really win two. The only team that really scares me is FAU. That is a great feeling to have going in to a season. Losing at Arkansas would be a disappointment, truly a disappointment and that excites me.

Wag Tag · April 11, 2018

Do we really give a sh$t what the recruiting budget is? Hell no! I want a class rated the top 1/3 of c-USA and nationally in the 80’s. It will be tough for Seth to get to the next level as a coach without proving he is a good recruiter!

MeanGreenTexan · April 11, 2018

10 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

Do we really give a sh$t what the recruiting budget is? Hell no! I want a class rated the top 1/3 of c-USA and nationally in the 80’s. It will be tough for Seth to get to the next level as a coach without proving he is a good recruiter!

The recruiting budget kindof goes hand-in-hand with the results of recruiting. Keep spending pennies, and we'll keep winding up on the bottom half of the conference standings.
It's one thing to ask Littrell to prove he's a good recruiter. It's another to hamstring him with a shoestring budget to do so.

Ben Gooding · April 11, 2018

32 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The recruiting budget kindof goes hand-in-hand with the results of recruiting. Keep spending pennies, and we'll keep winding up on the bottom half of the conference standings.
It's one thing to ask Littrell to prove he's a good recruiter. It's another to hamstring him with a shoestring budget to do so.

I would agree with this if we were recruiting out of Ruston or Hattiesburg. We're not.

MeanGreenTexan · April 11, 2018

3 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I would agree with this if we were recruiting out of Ruston or Hattiesburg. We're not.

Could you imagine if the recruiting budget was up with those two schools, but much of our talent was right here in town?

Ben Gooding · April 11, 2018

10 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Could you imagine if the recruiting budget was up with those two schools, but much of our talent was right here in town?

I could imagine it. And I would imagine I would think it's a waste of resources if we're actually landing local talent with a high end recruiting budget.

MeanGreenTexan · April 11, 2018

15 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I could imagine it. And I would imagine I would think it's a waste of resources if we're actually landing local talent with a high end recruiting budget.

Which we're oftentimes not doing right now. Maybe if we had a bigger budget, those resources could be used to WOW those local recruits a little more.

Wag Tag · April 11, 2018

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The recruiting budget kindof goes hand-in-hand with the results of recruiting. Keep spending pennies, and we'll keep winding up on the bottom half of the conference standings.
It's one thing to ask Littrell to prove he's a good recruiter. It's another to hamstring him with a shoestring budget to do so.

How did Louisiana work out for Mac? Conference rankings and national rankings should be our only measuring stick. SMU is higher because of the helicopter fuel!

GMG24 · April 11, 2018

Curious to hear what people think goes into these Recruiting Expenses.

MeanGreenTexan · April 11, 2018

2 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

How did Louisiana work out for Mac? Conference rankings and national rankings should be our only measuring stick. SMU is higher because of the helicopter fuel!

How did just about anyone work out for Mac?

Are we comparing McCarney with Littrell? Or are we trying to argue that the minuscule recruiting budget is OK, or could be more?

Ben Gooding · April 11, 2018

10 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Curious to hear what people think goes into these Recruiting Expenses.

Oh, you've been a recruiting coordinator in college at the D1 level? Please explain to us your experiences and the expenses that went along with it.

14 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

How did just about anyone work out for Mac?

Are we comparing McCarney with Littrell? Or are we trying to argue that the minuscule recruiting budget is OK, or could be more?

A budget can always improve. But for what? Littrell has said numerous times that he wants to recruit Denton county and the counties that touch. Do we really need to amp the budget up for that? Is this going to be cost effective? Is the bang for buck going to coincide? His recruiting tendencies and more importantly results with recruits in the North Texas region doesn't warrant a budget increase. IMO, it wouldn't pay off because like has been stated over and over and proven in his results, he is an X & O/developmental coach and not a swaggy recruiting guru.

If the budget is pushed, great. But expectations must be set if an increase is going to be set forth.

GMG24 · April 11, 2018

5 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Oh, you've been a recruiting coordinator in college at the D1 level? Please explain to us your experiences and the expenses that went along with it.

A budget can always improve. But for what? Littrell has said numerous times that he wants to recruit Denton county and the counties that touch. Do we really need to amp the budget up for that? Is this going to be cost effective? Is the bang for buck going to coincide? His recruiting tendencies and more importantly results with recruits in the North Texas region doesn't warrant a budget increase. IMO, it wouldn't pay off because like has been stated over and over and proven in his results, he is an X & O/developmental coach and not a swaggy recruiting guru.

If the budget is pushed, great. But expectations must be set if an increase is going to be set forth.

Yes we do. The mail you see kids posting about all the time, the stuff the big schools pump out in large volumes and mail out to who knows how many prospects. When you see kids getting 5/6 letters or more from a school think about that. The cost of envelope, materials, postage, wages for whoever is working on it. Coaches hotel rooms, gas, rentals, flights, meals. Hosting Official Visitors and their travel, hotels, food, etc. I am not sure how they break down all the stuff as far as the edits etc, that are made and sent out on social media (most recent is the billboard with the kids on it).

Ben Gooding · April 11, 2018

7 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Yes we do. The mail you see kids posting about all the time, the stuff the big schools pump out in large volumes and mail out to who knows how many prospects. When you see kids getting 5/6 letters or more from a school think about that. The cost of envelope, materials, postage, wages for whoever is working on it. Coaches hotel rooms, gas, rentals, flights, meals. Hosting Official Visitors and their travel, hotels, food, etc. I am not sure how they break down all the stuff as far as the edits etc, that are made and sent out on social media (most recent is the billboard with the kids on it).

Does the current budget not pay for postage and envelopes? Or even hotel rooms, rentals, hosting recruits, etc.? Because I know we currently do all of this as it stands now. Are the coaches paying out of pocket for these?

Again, boost the budget. But some strict expectations need to be set if that is the way they are going to go. Otherwise, we're just money whipping the coaches with luxuries while still landing 10th place finishes in CUSA.

GMG24 · April 11, 2018

10 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Does the current budget not pay for postage and envelopes? Or even hotel rooms, rentals, hosting recruits, etc.? Because I know we currently do all of this as it stands now. Are the coaches paying out of pocket for these?

Again, boost the budget. But some strict expectations need to be set if that is the way they are going to go. Otherwise, we're just money whipping the coaches with luxuries while still landing 10th place finishes in CUSA.

No doubt that with more $$ comes higher expectations, however I would hate that we didn't land a kid because we couldn't do ______ or we had to limit what we did for them on their OV's because we had to stretch ______$ amount out over all the kids instead of feeling better about not holding back and going all out to make a kid/ their family feel at home.

untjim1995 · April 11, 2018

What kills us about our recruiting budget being so low is the effects it has had on keeping our already-low reputation with TX HS Coaches and parents from ever improving very much.

I'll never forget a few years ago when a kid from Aledo HS, a program with great success, was quoted in the FW Star Telegram as saying that he didn't even know UNT played at the FBS level. He thought we played SFA, Sam Houston, etc...now you can say that was the exception and that some dumb kid didn't know about us, which could be true. But that should never happen at a 5A or 6A school that is winning state championships and plays within 90 minutes of the campus.

SL and company have shown the ability to take pieces that are not the perfect parts to their offensive scheme but still blend them into a successful unit. My guess is that he will continue to get better fits for his playbook as time goes on. But its going to take a good 5 more years of successful bowl seasons here to get the attention of the TX HS coaches and parents to consider sending better recruits here--the kids that are currently going to our peers in CUSA and the AAC schools near here. Its why it imperative to beat SMU this year while they are changing coaches and we are playing them at home and to do the same thing against UH when we play them soon.

DentonLurker · April 11, 2018

At the end of the day, we don't know if the coaches are spending everything they want/need to or if they are not getting to do some stuff because of a lack of funds. Sounds like a good coaches caravan question. Until we know the answer to that question, it's all arbitrary. Arbitrarily increasing a recruiting budget because "we need to be higher" is certainly a waste of money.

MeanGreenTexan · April 11, 2018

1 minute ago, DentonLurker said:

At the end of the day, we don't know if the coaches are spending everything they want/need to or if they are not getting to do some stuff because of a lack of funds. Sounds like a good coaches caravan question. Until we know the answer to that question, it's all arbitrary. Arbitrarily increasing a recruiting budget because "we need to be higher" is certainly a waste of money.

I highly doubt increasing the budget would be throwing away money. I'm sure Walerius, Littrell & Co. have a list of "nice-to-have's" they currently go without, that would assist in recruiting. I doubt it would be used for things like bumping the coaches to 1st class flights, 5* hotels, & paying for the Corvette instead of the mid-size rental.

flyonthewall · April 11, 2018

5 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Oh, you've been a recruiting coordinator in college at the D1 level? Please explain to us your experiences and the expenses that went along with it.

A budget can always improve. But for what? Littrell has said numerous times that he wants to recruit Denton county and the counties that touch. Do we really need to amp the budget up for that? Is this going to be cost effective? Is the bang for buck going to coincide? His recruiting tendencies and more importantly results with recruits in the North Texas region doesn't warrant a budget increase. IMO, it wouldn't pay off because like has been stated over and over and proven in his results, he is an X & O/developmental coach and not a swaggy recruiting guru.

If the budget is pushed, great. But expectations must be set if an increase is going to be set forth.

Wow, I agree with Ben Gooding. The reason we spend less is because we are getting in car and driving to see most of these kids, as opposed to getting on an airplane etc... We should be able to recruit better with less. In business we call that a "competitive advantage".

MGNation92 · April 11, 2018

Just now, flyonthewall said:

Wow, I agree with Ben Gooding. The reason we spend less is because we are getting in car and driving to see most of these kids, as opposed to getting on an airplane etc... We should be able to recruit better with less. In business we call that a "competitive advantage".

"We Should" and "We Are Taking the Steps" are two very different things. Doesn't matter if its by train, car, bike, or plane. Littrell and staff are not recruiting well and have shown an uncanny ability to lose more recruits to similar schools than gain them.