lean green

[wardly]

In the recent Mean Green Scholarship Fund 2018-2019  Membership Guide UNT had by far the most number of total alumni,least number of athletic donors and annual fund contributions. Reminds me of the story of "You Lucky Dog" dog food companies national sales meeting. The V.P. of Sales addressed his sales force complaining about the lack of sales. "I don't understand it. We have one of the  best products available priced lower than our competitors with good  distribution. Would someone please tell me why we aren't selling dog food?". A seasoned sales rep from East Texas stood up and responded,"the dogs don't like it." Maybe this is why their is such lack of interest in our Athletic Programs. The dogs just don't care.

[Hunter Green]

That's a sobering thought on a Sunday morning. You would think however, that after two consecutive bowl appearances and a tournament championship, that sentiment will change.

[flyonthewall]

3 hours ago, wardly said:

In the recent Mean Green Scholarship Fund 2018-2019  Membership Guide UNT had by far the most number of total alumni,least number of athletic donors and annual fund contributions. Reminds me of the story of "You Lucky Dog" dog food companies national sales meeting. The V.P. of Sales addressed his sales force complaining about the lack of sales. "I don't understand it. We have one of the  best products available priced lower than our competitors with good  distribution. Would someone please tell me why we aren't selling dog food?". A seasoned sales rep from East Texas stood up and responded,"the dogs don't like it." Maybe this is why their is such lack of interest in our Athletic Programs. The dogs just don't care.

Great story Ward.  However....

There is an old Jerry Clower story that goes something like this....

"A young man asked the old coon hunter, what do you feed them dogs?....The old man says I feed them old shoes.  Old shoes says the young man?  How you get them coon dogs to eat them old shoes?  The old man says, you starve them dogs long enough they will eat anything!"

My point is, if we ever get real dog food as a fan base, we might just eat all of it up like we've never had good dog food before.....

As evidence by the large boisterous crowd less than two weeks ago at a certain final game of a certain final championship.

I know with the current political climate, the glass is half full for you Ward, but you are going to see a giant crowd at apogee in your lifetime....Write it down.

Edited April 8, 2018 by flyonthewall

[Harry]

Wardly -  as usual you make some valid points...however

How about considering the fact the dog food mostly tasted like crap for 10-years?  I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom, I truly do — but seems to me your analogies always leave this important factor out.  You have to consistently win to build support.  In reality, prior to the last couple of years, we had one winning season in football for about a decade (2013)?  

[Wag Tag]

3 hours ago, wardly said:

In the recent Mean Green Scholarship Fund 2018-2019  Membership Guide UNT had by far the most number of total alumni,least number of athletic donors and annual fund contributions. Reminds me of the story of "You Lucky Dog" dog food companies national sales meeting. The V.P. of Sales addressed his sales force complaining about the lack of sales. "I don't understand it. We have one of the  best products available priced lower than our competitors with good  distribution. Would someone please tell me why we aren't selling dog food?". A seasoned sales rep from East Texas stood up and responded,"the dogs don't like it." Maybe this is why their is such lack of interest in our Athletic Programs. The dogs just don't care.

Can you get 6295 people to read your opinion? If you handed it out during the last basketball game you could have! GMG 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Wag Tag

[wardly]

Harry, with all do respect,using  lack of winning consistently as an excuse for lack of financial support for athletics at UNT by alumni  is a cop out.Lowly UTEP has 600 more donors than us and gave nearly $1million more with less than a forth of our alumni.Charlotte, with a third our alumni, has twice as many donors giving $1million more with a start up football program.The list goes on and on.I had a successful 35 years in medical device sales and distribution and if you have the largest market with the lowest sales you get fired.Someone in administration needs to hold our athletic sales and marketing department accountable, because they are not getting the job done. Please don't ask me what I would do that they aren't. That's what our bloated athletic department is paid to do. Expect more or you will get less.

[wardly]

15 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Can you get 6295 people to read your opinion? If you handed it out during the last basketball game you could have! GMG 

And what was our average home attendance this season counting tournament home games? Probably less than 3,000 in a 35,000+ student base.

[flyonthewall]

Just now, wardly said:

And what was our average home attendance this season counting tournament home games? Probably less than 3,000 in a 35,000+ student base.

the dog food has sucked for many years.  follow the old wise salesman's advice and make dog food that the dogs will actually eat, they come in from the woodwork.

[Side Show Joe]

3 hours ago, wardly said:

In the recent Mean Green Scholarship Fund 2018-2019  Membership Guide UNT had by far the most number of total alumni,least number of athletic donors and annual fund contributions. Reminds me of the story of "You Lucky Dog" dog food companies national sales meeting. The V.P. of Sales addressed his sales force complaining about the lack of sales. "I don't understand it. We have one of the  best products available priced lower than our competitors with good  distribution. Would someone please tell me why we aren't selling dog food?". A seasoned sales rep from East Texas stood up and responded,"the dogs don't like it." Maybe this is why their is such lack of interest in our Athletic Programs. The dogs just don't care.

The answer is a little more complex. RV ran the department for 15 years. In that time we needed to build FBS G5 caliber facilities, while playing in the Sun Belt, where we were the only Texas program. Not an ideal situation. Although he had a difficult task, it still could have been handled better. But, at this point, there is no reason or need to open old wounds. Add in the fact that our programs have struggled for about a decade, and it isn't very hard to see why we are raising less money with more alums.

I will consed that with our recent success, the numbers need to be improving rapidly. But, that will come down to marketing. Our leadership at North Texas must come to the realization that we can't just market like other programs. Being located in DFW creates a very unique set of circumstances for North Texas. Not only do we have to contend with two other FBS programs within 50 miles of our campus, and the two large state flagships (Texas & Texas A&M), but we also have the major professional teams in our market. I'm not complaining, just pointing out that we have to develop a better marketing strategy if we intend to capture the attention of our alumni or the general population.

I have ideas about how we could effectively market our teams and increase our following and donations, but I don't know that anyone in the athletic department or on this board wants to hear them.

[wardly]

I don't think we all get it . UTEP,Rice,UAB,Charlotte have all sucked for some time, yet they get a lot more from a lot less.[ By the by, our average men's B.B. regular season attendance in 2017 was 2,100 vs CUSA average of 3,600].I have supported UNT since my freshman year of 1961, and as I approach 75 I am sick of excuses for the lack of financial support for athletics by our alumni . Even the 6 years Fry was head coach our average home attendance was just a little over 13,000.[we averaged 5 games per year played at Fouts during Hayden's tenure].Bottom line: I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but I know what the problem is. Lack of interest.

[BTG_Fan1]

4 hours ago, Hunter Green said:

That's a sobering thought on a Sunday morning. You would think however, that after two consecutive bowl appearances and a tournament championship, that sentiment will change.

To change it, they need to start hitting up recent and soon to be graduates. Get them hooked early and keep them around.

Talk about how just a small $25 donation is not a huge expense, for them but will do a world of good for the program. Also, show and bring in examples of what is has done for programs like TCU (as they moved up) and other programs like Memphis, UH, etc.. 

[BTG_Fan1]

18 minutes ago, wardly said:

I don't think we all get it . UTEP,Rice,UAB,Charlotte have all sucked for some time, yet they get a lot more from a lot less.[ By the by, our average men's B.B. regular season attendance in 2017 was 2,100 vs CUSA average of 3,600].I have supported UNT since my freshman year of 1961, and as I approach 75 I am sick of excuses for the lack of financial support for athletics by our alumni . Even the 6 years Fry was head coach our average home attendance was just a little over 13,000.[we averaged 5 games per year played at Fouts during Hayden's tenure].Bottom line: I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but I know what the problem is. Lack of interest.

While I agree it is a lack of interest, that has somewhat turned around. The Marketing of Events (and promotions) has greatly increased. I do not recall SL''s first season stilling MacBooks, 1k donations to student organizations, etc at football games or stuff like the free parking passes for your career at UNT, apple watches, etc like they did during the CBI. 

Students that are in denton, need a reason to go to the games. The success of the team will lead to better results. We saw the attendance increase throughout the season for the most part. We just have to hope that it carries over and that the product on the field improves. If we can start rolling teams like FAU did last year, it will make the games more fun drawing more people and students. Hell, if i was UNT you break out all the stuff you can to keep students on campus during game weekends.. Open Cafeterias on campus all weekend or something so kids have 1 less excuse to go home or do tailgates, etc. to get the students to stay in Denton instead of going home and let it grow. Or if they do go home to someplace close, make it so they can come back with their parents and have a good time!

Another thing, I have seen guys like on this board offer to students like @AustinFromUNT and others to come join their tailgate for free food, drinks, etc.. Heck Austin was even on the sideline for a game or 2 this past season. Doing more stuff like that for students will keep them engaged and having good memories leading to them coming back. 

[FirefightnRick]

5 hours ago, wardly said:

In the recent Mean Green Scholarship Fund 2018-2019  Membership Guide UNT had by far the most number of total alumni,least number of athletic donors and annual fund contributions. Reminds me of the story of "You Lucky Dog" dog food companies national sales meeting. The V.P. of Sales addressed his sales force complaining about the lack of sales. "I don't understand it. We have one of the  best products available priced lower than our competitors with good  distribution. Would someone please tell me why we aren't selling dog food?". A seasoned sales rep from East Texas stood up and responded,"the dogs don't like it." Maybe this is why their is such lack of interest in our Athletic Programs. The dogs just don't care.

Have you been interviewed by Vitto about this yet?

 

 

(You know I'm teasing you buddy)

 

 

Rick

Edited April 8, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, flyonthewall said:

Great story Ward.  However....

There is an old Jerry Clower story that goes something like this....

"A young man asked the old coon hunter, what do you feed them dogs?....The old man says I feed them old shoes.  Old shoes says the young man?  How you get them coon dogs to eat them old shoes?  The old man says, you starve them dogs long enough they will eat anything!"

My point is, if we ever get real dog food as a fan base, we might just eat all of it up like we've never had good dog food before.....

As evidence by the large boisterous crowd less than two weeks ago at a certain final game of a certain final championship.

I know with the current political climate, the glass is half full for you Ward, but you are going to see a giant crowd at apogee in your lifetime....Write it down.

Excellent post.

 

 

Rick

Edited April 8, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[Side Show Joe]

1 hour ago, wardly said:

I don't think we all get it . UTEP,Rice,UAB,Charlotte have all sucked for some time, yet they get a lot more from a lot less.[ By the by, our average men's B.B. regular season attendance in 2017 was 2,100 vs CUSA average of 3,600].I have supported UNT since my freshman year of 1961, and as I approach 75 I am sick of excuses for the lack of financial support for athletics by our alumni . Even the 6 years Fry was head coach our average home attendance was just a little over 13,000.[we averaged 5 games per year played at Fouts during Hayden's tenure].Bottom line: I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but I know what the problem is. Lack of interest.

I think you bring up a few bad comparisons.

UTEP is the only game in El Paso... or within a million miles of El Paso. There is no competition for the attention of the general population. The people of El Paso can either support and watch UTEP or sit on their porch and watch the tumbleweeds roll into town.

Rice is a very small exclusive private school, whose graduates go on to earn large amounts of money. They have an annual generational donation campaign that raises tons of money for the university. And the smallest group is the older alums. Although they are severely outnumbered by the younger alums, they always raise millions more then the others.

UAB just came back from the dead. I like our situation much better.

 

I don't think our problem is a lack of interest. As stated in you original post. We have more donors, we just don't have as much money being donated. I think the real problem is a lack of engagement. Although we engage more alums then other universities, we could engage many more. Our alums can't give like Rice. Most do not earn the salaries that many Rice grads do. Our fans can't be fleeced like UTEP. There are just too many other entertainment options in DFW. Because many of our alums will be donating at lower levels then our Texas peers, we must engage more of our alums. The good news is that we have many more alums then the other Texas C-USA programs. Again we must do a better job of marketing.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Side Show Joe

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, wardly said:

And what was our average home attendance this season counting tournament home games? Probably less than 3,000 in a 35,000+ student base.

Better than last few years! That is 3,000 more than any department at the university could ever hope to draw for a function. Need to do better? Yep, but that doesn’t mean the product has not gotten a Hell a lot better. Hope you are not a sideline guy gripping and one that actually participates !

[oldguystudent]

This thread is making me hungry. 

[UNTLifer]

4 hours ago, wardly said:

I don't think we all get it . UTEP,Rice,UAB,Charlotte have all sucked for some time, yet they get a lot more from a lot less.[ By the by, our average men's B.B. regular season attendance in 2017 was 2,100 vs CUSA average of 3,600].I have supported UNT since my freshman year of 1961, and as I approach 75 I am sick of excuses for the lack of financial support for athletics by our alumni . Even the 6 years Fry was head coach our average home attendance was just a little over 13,000.[we averaged 5 games per year played at Fouts during Hayden's tenure].Bottom line: I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but I know what the problem is. Lack of interest.

True, but those school's also don't have a history of not asking for the donation. 

[Mean Green Matt]

5 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

 

Talk about how just a small $25 donation is not a huge expense, for them but will do a world of good for the program. 

I've been trying to make this sell to a group of friends from college, all of which actively follow the athletic teams and attend probably half of the football home games. None of them have any interest in doing it, which is incredibly disheartening. 

Of course, we need to continue to reach out and "sell" to alumni, but the real culture change needs to start with the current students when they become alumni. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

5 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

This thread is making me hungry. 

Hope you like old shoes.

[BTG_Fan1]

42 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I've been trying to make this sell to a group of friends from college, all of which actively follow the athletic teams and attend probably half of the football home games. None of them have any interest in doing it, which is incredibly disheartening. 

Of course, we need to continue to reach out and "sell" to alumni, but the real culture change needs to start with the current students when they become alumni. 

Need to then pitch them on buying season tickets.. and tell them then that 25 buck donation is included and makes the average ticket price cheaper.

[meangreenJW]

7 hours ago, wardly said:

Harry, with all do respect,using  lack of winning consistently as an excuse for lack of financial support for athletics at UNT by alumni  is a cop out.Lowly UTEP has 600 more donors than us and gave nearly $1million more with less than a forth of our alumni.Charlotte, with a third our alumni, has twice as many donors giving $1million more with a start up football program.The list goes on and on.I had a successful 35 years in medical device sales and distribution and if you have the largest market with the lowest sales you get fired.Someone in administration needs to hold our athletic sales and marketing department accountable, because they are not getting the job done. Please don't ask me what I would do that they aren't. That's what our bloated athletic department is paid to do. Expect more or you will get less.

I disagree. Almost all of those schools had consistent deep runs at some point. That built a culture and expectation. We've never had that. Our longest runs are 3-4 years followed by double or triple that in futility. And we've never had a run like UTEP. They won that national championship for God sakes. I agree there are some culture challenges at UNT. But I see progress being made on many fronts. 

[Aquila_Viridis]

Abandonment is not the right course. It is true that NT appeals disproportionately to students who were not in the In Crowd in high school. It is also true that many of those people come in looking for a situation where disengagement is the norm. That is because the rah rah stuff reminds them of exclusion. But it does not take much consistent enjoyment at the athletic events to turn that around. 6-0 at home is a great start, because not much fun will be had when there are a lot of losses. But we have to get a lot more of winning games to win hearts and minds. The opportunity unfortunately is lost with many alumni. It has to be present- and forward-looking. Where the money comes from then, to get those wins, is a huge challenge. I wish I had an answer, and I hope the people in charge now can figure one out.

[meangreenJW]

7 hours ago, flyonthewall said:

the dog food has sucked for many years.  follow the old wise salesman's advice and make dog food that the dogs will actually eat, they come in from the woodwork.

Somehow this is really good. Not sure how or why. But makes total sense. LOL

[meangreenJW]

Bold prediction - Donors will be up by at least 25% by this time next year.

Bolder prediction - Some people will still cry and moan about "other people" who aren't giving.

Progress is being made. Anyone actively engaged, attending games, functions, donating can see it. And it's being done by everyone. Coaches, University officials, regents, donors, athletic administration. 

I've said before I like that the athletic dept is owning the numbers and letting fans know. I've had two buddies that had never joined, join. In part, because I shamed em with those numbers.