How Impressed Are You At The Roster Littrell Has Built?

TIgreen01 · April 6, 2018

I hope we over-sign at DL next year the way we over-signed at DB this year. This defensive roster still feels too reliant on Bryce being a game changer. Like others have said, we're not physical enough to beat FAU (and FIU worries me, as well).

We've stock-piled O-linemen. That will eventually pay off down the road as these guys grow up in the program. We needed to have done that this year, impo. What we're waiting for I don't know.

GreenN'walinsVet · April 6, 2018

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Agreed. They have earned leeway. But in the same token, they are playing with fire a bit by not legitimately addressing blatant issues with the defense. I just don't think we can win another 5 or 6 1 possession games in 2018. I hope we do, but bounces typically don't always fall in your favor like that over the span of an entire season very often.

Agreed. We are literally turning into Tech.

If we can turn into the Leach Tech (consistently win 8-10 games) then i will live with a few defensive struggles.

greenminer · April 6, 2018

Pretty tired of our struggles to recruit linemen. I know this is a G5 thing.

Mad Hatter · April 6, 2018

22 minutes ago, GreenN'walinsVet said:

If we can turn into the Leach Tech (consistently win 8-10 games) then i will live with a few defensive struggles.

Agree! If we keep winning that helps with attendance and puts us in a better spot for the merry-go-round of conference realignment. Also, if you consistently win you'll attract the kind of players we want/need.

BillySee58 · April 6, 2018

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I don't think anyone doubts the effort, but the concern is were they able to get it done? Is this on paper a better defense than last season? I think that's at least questionable. And I hate to say that because I really think the offense is going to be one of the best we have had.

Very good post. I think in year three we need to start seeing linemen and guys on defense who Littrell recruited actually step up and become good CUSA-level players.

Its one thing to sign guys at certain positions and say they fit your system and will be good despite maybe not being that highly recruited. It's another for them to actually become that. Even Alabama has underclassmen jumping upperclassmen who are legit SEC players. You want to see these signees show something and not just fall in line behind guys who are older than them. Especially when those guys who are older are not necessarily all-CUSA guys.

Wag Tag · April 6, 2018

43 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Very good post. I think in year three we need to start seeing linemen and guys on defense who Littrell recruited actually step up and become good CUSA-level players.

Its one thing to sign guys at certain positions and say they fit your system and will be good despite maybe not being that highly recruited. It's another for them to actually become that. Even Alabama has underclassmen jumping upperclassmen who are legit SEC players. You want to see these signees show something and not just fall in line behind guys who are older than them. Especially when those guys who are older are not necessarily all-CUSA guys.

What would be considered a step up? Is starting as a Jr or Sr considered a good recruit. I know all want fresh and sophomores starting because of better talent. What if a player is in the rotation as a Jr but isn’t a starter till a Sr. Fusche would be an example! Is that considered a successful recruit?

Edited April 6, 2018 by Wag Tag

Ben Gooding · April 6, 2018

1 hour ago, GreenN'walinsVet said:

If we can turn into the Leach Tech (consistently win 8-10 games) then i will live with a few defensive struggles.

No doubt. But we are more so Coach Bro Tech than Leach Tech. Leach's Tech teams could go swing for swing in spite of their defense in most seasons. Coach Bro's Tech teams get manhandled at the LOS on both sides of the ball against average and above average teams 10 out of 10 times thus almost always losing those games.

untjim1995 · April 6, 2018

4 hours ago, GMG24 said:

I think 3 of the "safeties" we recruited play this year the rest RS. I really wish people realized how hard it is to recruit and land game changing DL that also have size.

No doubt--its especially hard to do here in this region because 7-on-7 is so prevalent and there are very few college ready DL in TX and OK HS anymore.

Ben Gooding · April 6, 2018

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

What would be considered a step up? Is starting as a Jr or Sr considered a good recruit. I know all want fresh and sophomores starting because of better talent. What if a player is in the rotation as a Jr but isn’t a starter till a Sr. Fusche would be an example! Is that considered a successful recruit?

When there is rarely an underclassmen maneuvering past an upperclassmen on the 2-deep....That's a problem. I mean, until there is significant progress on defense it's a problem regardless of the 2-deep. I don't care if 8th graders are out there making stops as long as stops are taking place. And significant IMO would be for the defense to crack the 20's in PPG. It's a stepping stone and one I would like to see take place in 2018.

Wag Tag · April 6, 2018

15 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

When there is rarely an underclassmen maneuvering past an upperclassmen on the 2-deep....That's a problem. I mean, until there is significant progress on defense it's a problem regardless of the 2-deep. I don't care if 8th graders are out there making stops as long as stops are taking place. And significant IMO would be for the defense to crack the 20's in PPG. It's a stepping stone and one I would like to see take place in 2018.

You don't care what classification is making plays, but underclassman must be in the 2 deep? I am interested in the level of competition for the starting position. Did we move a DT to DE because our options at that position is poor and now we may burn a red shirt on a undersized freshman? Like most schools we will be challenged to recruit DL so we better develop them with a red shirt and a 5 year program.

greenminer · April 6, 2018

I've always thought the hardest position to recruit at G5 is LT to protect the QB's blind side. Maybe times have changed enough to shift that thought to the DL?

BTG_Fan1 · April 6, 2018

Just going to say.. Preston left a ton to be desired.. believe he had multiple bonehead plays vs Iowa in the 2nd half and during Troy he even got replaced..

I think a major question is how/who slots into the DB group from this recent class.

K.Davis is an LB now (likely on the inside to replace EJ), Gibbs, Williams, Crosby, Morris? Would love to see Gibbs at CB, having a taller, willing to tackle guy on the edge is something we need.. Williams is a great FS/Centerfielder and his size could be his biggest disadvantage. Morris seems to be that Rover spot to challenge T. Davis and Crosby and he anything on the skill positions.

MGNation92 · April 7, 2018

Curious to see if Nicholas Pichon will be of any help in the middle. 6'3 and 297 lbs could go a long way if he has solid technique.

UNT 90 Grad · April 7, 2018

I’m a little worried about special teams. We need that edge. It could be the difference between winning and losing.

BillySee58 · April 7, 2018

4 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

No doubt--its especially hard to do here in this region because 7-on-7 is so prevalent and there are very few college ready DL in TX and OK HS anymore.

7-on-7 is prevalent everywhere there are a lot of D1 recruits. The argument that D1 readiness among high-school recruits here specifically has fallen off as a result is an unsubstantiated take that really doesn't even have correlation to back it up, let alone causation.

BillySee58 · April 7, 2018

5 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

What would be considered a step up?

I said we need to see young guys start to step up(verb) not a step up (noun).

5 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

Is starting as a Jr or Sr considered a good recruit.

Starter is an internal accomplishment. A good recruit is a good player compared to our peers, not just compared to our roster.

5 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

I know all want fresh and sophomores starting because of better talent. What if a player is in the rotation as a Jr but isn’t a starter till a Sr. Fusche would be an example! Is that considered a successful recruit?

Andy Flusche was a legit CUSA level player. He was not an NFL player or even an all-CUSA player. I don't even think he was honorable mention. You can't win anything substantial with a team that has no all-conference players. We need more of those type of players, particularly on the offensive line and on defense, where we have had one (Kishawn McClain) since 2014 when Cyril Lemon and Derek Akunne made all conference.

Personally I think Littrell's recruiting in his first two classes were not that impressive, especially outside of the skill positions. He hit on a QB (the most important position) some receivers, and had Jeff Wilson and that pretty much led us to 9 wins.

We looked pedestrian and overmatched in the games after the Jeff Wilson injury. Our general average play across the board, save for our QB and receivers, was severely exposed. The point is that even though we had a good record last year, there are plenty of spots and opportunities to where if we have underclassmen who are the real deal, they should start. If underclassmen can't surpass average upperclassmen then they probably won't be any better than average themselves. We don't want that cycle.

southsideguy · April 7, 2018

i will save my comments until November. I will get back to you then.

Ben Gooding · April 7, 2018

6 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

You don't care what classification is making plays, but underclassman must be in the 2 deep? I am interested in the level of competition for the starting position. Did we move a DT to DE because our options at that position is poor and now we may burn a red shirt on a undersized freshman? Like most schools we will be challenged to recruit DL so we better develop them with a red shirt and a 5 year program.

Not must. A senior laden team of studs year in and year out is ideal and fantasy. When underclassmen start making noise on gameday rather in rahrah coach speak we will then know recruiting has taken a step up. We need that step defensively, desperately. Until then, tighten your seatbelt and hope a Jeff Wilson-less offense can lead this team to a winning season. I don't doubt winning, I just doubt winning comfortably in this current format. And given that, a sliver of doubt does linger.

GMG24 · April 7, 2018

17 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

No doubt--its especially hard to do here in this region because 7-on-7 is so prevalent and there are very few college ready DL in TX and OK HS anymore.

Come on now, you know what I was trying to say. If guys have size on them and move well they're getting snatched up by blue blood programs whether they can play or not. We're going to have to do 1/2 things. 1. Win with undersized under recruited guys consistently enough to convince the bigger time guys this is a place they can come win and be seen, or 2. Hit on some evaluations and projections with longer/leaner guys who need to develop physically and skills. That is if we want HS DL.

BTG_Fan1 · April 8, 2018

On 4/6/2018 at 8:12 PM, UNT 90 Grad said:

I’m a little worried about special teams. We need that edge. It could be the difference between winning and losing.

Special teams alone won us the UAB and Army games.. Season is totally different if we loss those 2 games.

qbmann2 · April 9, 2018

I feel as if we give him another year or so and we will be very good and have a great rooster. If we can just keep him and the coaching

staff for a few more years.

97and03 · April 9, 2018

6 hours ago, qbmann2 said:

I feel as if we give him another year or so and we will be very good and have a great rooster. If we can just keep him and the coaching

staff for a few more years.

#Cockadoodledo

Edited April 9, 2018 by 97and03

Harry · April 9, 2018

11 hours ago, qbmann2 said:

I feel as if we give him another year or so and we will be very good and have a great rooster. If we can just keep him and the coaching

staff for a few more years.

I think you are very correct. I would be thrilled if we could keep him a couple more years. Every year we have this staff the better our program will become.

aztecskin · April 9, 2018

On 4/6/2018 at 1:10 PM, TIgreen01 said:

I hope we over-sign at DL next year the way we over-signed at DB this year. This defensive roster still feels too reliant on Bryce being a game changer. Like others have said, we're not physical enough to beat FAU (and FIU worries me, as well).

We've stock-piled O-linemen. That will eventually pay off down the road as these guys grow up in the program. We needed to have done that this year, impo. What we're waiting for I don't know.

From what I've read and seen of comparable system guys (Mike Leach etc), the received wisdom is that they want to have something like 20 OL and build them slowly through the system with obvious exceptions for guys that are immediately ready.

Short answer to @BillySee58 's question:

Given the constraints: building a roster to compete now while also building depth, it is as about 80% good, so a B-. They've missed big on defense. That side of the ball lacks size and depth and first line starters at the LB position which is a huge mistake.

Conversely, the offensive side of the ball added a QB, some depth there, WRs, RBs, and is building depth along the Oline.

Depth _should_ come, if they are doing this right, and I can forgive not finding game-changing O and D lineman (that takes time and some luck) but not finding playable linebackers last season was a big issue.

Cerebus · April 9, 2018

Everyone knows that getting a game changer QB is hard. I would argue that getting a game changer DL is even harder.

I've gotten to the point that I understand getting a true game changing DL at a G5 is a once a decade (if you're lucky) event. I am not ready to get down on the staff for not recruiting one.

However, linebackers are another story. Not only are there many more good LBs out there that can fall to G5, we have had a history of getting good ones. The recruiting I have been most dissapointed in is at the LB position.